Have you had a good online train auction experience?

Jerry,

Many, many people will tell you to avoid like the plague any on-line auction bidding such as the one you've signed up for, primarily because of the 19% fee.  But, in reality it just depends on how the bidding goes.  If you can bid low enough and win, 19% is not a big problem, even with the need to pay for shipping if you don't, or can't, physically visit the auction house in order to pick up your winnings.

I have both bought and sold via auction, with all of the big names handling toy trains, especially those that sponsor this forum, and have rarely felt overcharged on my buys.  Most purchases, with all costs included, came about even with other ways to purchase, which have included eBay, hobby shops, train shows, and listings here on the forum.

Here's what it comes down to:  Can you control yourself as the bids are going up around you, so that you don't overpay?  That, is will you know precisely when to stop (and let some someone else win if necessary in the process)?

To prepare successfully do your homework and know very well what you're buying.  Then check prices on eBay (and the other sources) to set an acceptable range and a solid upper limit in your mind.  If you're lucky there will only be two of you bidding at the very end, as you approach your upper limit.  If bidding flies up to it quickly you must stop.  Someone will trump you with every succeeding bid.

On the other hand if it sneaks up slowly then you can consider going over slightly and duking it out to the end.

My very best purchases, those winning with the lowest bids, have come from these situations:

1. Bidding very actively on the first few lots in the auction -- People are slow to get it in gear.  The first few pieces usually, but may not always, close at less than I would expect because people are not yet in tune with the cadence.  They haven't warmed up yet.
2. Not bidding on the first lot when there are also additional lots offering the same item later in the auction -- Let the competition tucker themselves out on that first one.  Don't start your bidding until one of subsequent lots comes up.  Bidding on these extra lots almost always rises more slowly and reaches a lower maximum, one that is that is more likely a better fit with your predetermined maximum bid value.
3. Join an auction that is run by an auction house that does not specialize in trains.  This one might be controversial.  You might encounter a problem with grading not matching your expectations.  But, your prospective competition will also worry about this too, and stay away a a result of it.  My best prizes have come from getting into the bidding and realizing that my competitors haven't shown up, and then my winning bid coming in, as a result, well under my predetermined upper limit.

Good luck.  For your first auction experience, consider sitting back and monitoring the flow without jumping in.  Better yet, if it's possible please attend in-person a live auction (or a live auction that also accepts online bidding) first to see how auctions work.  If you bid in this kind of situation and win there's an extra plus -- the fee will be much lower, or nonexistent.

Mike

I suspect that you can mention Stouts as they are a forum sponsor. And, yes, I have had some good acquisitions from them.

I've never seen items bid up so high, so fast.

The last time I bid there I fell over laughing how far past what I thought was high for me the winning bid went.

This has nothing to do with the auction house of course , but it appears they attract folks with much deeper pockets.

Online auctions are auctions.  If you want no risk, stay away from online auctions. A few deals, a few normal price and some in the stratosphere.   I have a list of things I look for and stick to it.  Since I can't inspect an online auction, I set my prices low and adjust for buyers premium also.  Make absolutely sure what you are bidding on is what you think it is.  If not sure, don't bid.    I set a price and forget about it until the auction is over.   Ask questions, often you have weeks to do so.  I ignore the "you were outbid" messages.   If you can't bid and leave it alone, the auction fever will get you.   I assume the electronics are fried.  I set my price and usually loose, but a few I have won.   They were worth it to me.

I recently won an 1872 General and a K-line A5 with tmcc.   The general needed cleaning and a couple of minor detail parts.  Great deal in the end.   The TMCC in the A5 was fried, but the engine is great otherwise.  My price was very low so it seemed no one else wanted an A5 that day or no one risked buying something with TMCC from an unknown collection.   I still am OK with the price I payed, even with an ERR replacement I will be ahead.  I don't mind working on the items.   

I wish Auction houses would do all 6 views of the items, most do not currently. 

They're like that movie: The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly.

All comments so far are words of wisdom, IMHO. I've generally had a good experience the few times I've ventured into online auctions outside the 'Bay, but the first time I got a shipping and packing bill that was one and a half times my successful bid, I was stunned! Fortunately, my winning bid was low enough I made out O.K., but it was quite a wake-up call! IME most auction houses do not post estimated shipping and packing, so you'll need to consider the weight and bulk of the items and distance to be shipped to guesstimate on your own.

The strategy that has worked for me has been to carefully consider ahead of time what is the highest bid (taking into consideration fees and shipping!) I would not regret if I won the lot I'm interested in, and pre-bid it. Then, even if I decide to attend "live", I let the robo-bid play out, with the option to make one (and only one!) superseding live bid, but *only* if I think that'll be enough to win, *and* I decide I can live with the higher bid if I *do* win. Otherwise, if I'm outbid, I just chalk it up to being run over by a fool and his/her money parting ways! Good luck!

I've won a few items from Stout, but most often I'm outbid by folks with much deeper pockets.  In my experience, they provide accurate descriptions of items and respond to questions when I submit them.  They pack items carefully.

Keep the buyers premium in mind when bidding.  (You can save a few percentage points by paying by check.)  In addition, they may charge sales tax.  Shipping charges have been reasonable - it would be helpful if they provided estimates, but unfortunately it's a crapshoot.  My rule of thumb is that the total cost will be at least 150% of my bid - if that's too much, I don't bid.

These observations only apply to Stout.  There's another popular auction house, but I find the descriptions of their items to be lacking.

If one defines "good" as my money never left my wallet, then yes.

Excluding eBay, in my experience, the most likely occurrence is I am busy with work or family when the item of interest is being bid on, 2nd most is I didn't sign up in time, 3rd I get out bid by Mr (or Mrs) Deep Pockets.

@illinoiscentral posted:

If one defines "good" as my money never left my wallet, then yes.

LOL, that's a good one.   I've had good experiences with Stout minus all the darn buyer fees they tack on and Trainz.  Few things on Ebay.  no bad experiences with shipping or what have you.

Have used an online auction house once. The pictures were incomplete. I called and asked if more pictures, especially of the undercarriage, could be added and was told, succinctly, no. While I was happy with the price I got, and was aware of the buyer’s premium, I was astonished at the shipping cost of $37. I was prescient in that unposted pictures of the undercarriage I wanted were my Achilles heel. The flanges on the drive wheels on one side were nubs, and necessitated replacement of the entire drive block. This engine must have spent its entire life running one way, in circles, on small diameter track. First and last for me. All these auction houses are “AS IS”. If you get a doorstop, you pay to fix it. No guarantees of operability.

Please understand this is a single instance. I put my toe in the water. Won’t do it again. Many above have had far more enjoyable, successful experiences. Mine may indeed have been a one off.

Thanks to Mellow Hudson Mike, PRRMP54, RickO, YHubbard, EastCoastIron, SteveTyler, Mallard4468, IllinoisCentral, Superwarp1, and Mark V. Spadaro. You have all been very helpful !!

Jerry

In regards to the question concerning online auctions, this post is more about having been in the role as a seller (recently), although over the years, I always have been a buyer. Thus I have been in both roles.

I recently consigned a significant portion of my collection to Gateway Auction of Chambersburg Pennsylvania. They offer about 4-5 train auctions a year, and do so within a combination of in-house bidders along with Invaluable, Hi-Bid, and their own virtual bidding platforms. I monitored the progress in the days leading up to the sale..... the activity on all three platforms. Just hours before the sale, what Gateway did was merge the highest bids from the three platforms, and the highest pre-sale bid becomes the opening bid for the live sale. Having attended in-house as well as participated virtually in quite a few auctions, I was always very satisfied to Gateway's standards of professionalism and ethics. Yes, there is both a buyers and sellers fee. But when I think about their costs and the effort required to prepare for and execute a sale, I think it is pretty fair, and overall pleased.

In regards to Stout, I think they also do a very good job, and are very professional. They too have both buyers and sellers fees along with the shipping and packaging costs. I have purchased a number of items from them in various sales over the years. But a couple of years ago I approached them with the possibility of consigning my fairly large collection segment to them, and not only were they somewhat dis-interested, but they never got back to me. That is when I thought about looking into other auction providers.

And by the way, I recently compared some of the more desirable items in my recent sale with the same items sold in a Stout auction, and actually some of my items sold higher on Gateway than on Stout. But other items sold for less. So, I think this is a function overall of "who is either in attendance (both virtually and in-house)" and what buyers are looking for that day, than maybe the auction company.  And, there are probably quite a few resellers (looking for items that they can purchase and resell with the margins of a profit) in attendance as opposed to just a private hobbyist or collector.

I also have found that if one is using Greenberg and eBay as standards of "comparative worth", you can easily see if you have done quite a few of these online sales, that buyers are normally pretty sophisticated in knowing and determining the ceiling price, as they are" plugging in" the buyers fee plus shipping costs, and for the most part, will pretty much "shut-down" their bidding when that ceiling is reached.

Anytime that I have been in the role of a buyer, I constantly try to remind myself while actively bidding what the buyers fee adds to the bid price, and how much shipping fees add to my "walk away" buyers price.

And having read the thread up to this point, it is fair to say as a buyer, you always want to buy at the least price point possible (inclusive of fees and shipping if you are not in attendance). As a seller, one wants to sell at the highest price point possible inclusive of fees. I guess that is true of trains but just about anything

Hope these thoughts contribute to the conversation.

Chuck

Many thanks, Chuck. Great advice

J

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

... All these auction houses are “AS IS”. If you get a doorstop, you pay to fix it. No guarantees of operability...

As for Stout, the "as-is" lots are marked as such.  Otherwise, I believe that they will take an item back if you can show that it was not described accurately, but I've never had to do this - everything I've bought has been as good or better than described.  As for operability, you're right - I don't think that any of the auction houses test run anything - that's a major advantage of buying in person at a train meet.

Also, from the seller side, I sold a modest amount of LGB through Stout a few years ago.  Based on SOLD prices for similar items on ebay, my net was about the same, there was no hassle of listing individual items, packing and shipping them, and dealing with potentially unreasonable buyers.