Will The Lionel Lionchief BNSF ET44C4 run on O-31 curves?

When this issue has come up before on this Forum, my recollection is that it is wise to follow the manufacturer's recommendations.

You have the switches  as well as the curves to consider. 

Also, even if the locomotive can run on 031 curves, which is unlikely, it might not run well through them. Arnold 

The only flaw in that thinking Arnold is that many of the current locomotives Lionel places in starter sets, have been cataloged before Lionel started even making FasTrack. A look though older Lionel catalogs and you can see these locomotives in sets that came exclusively with 027 track. This includes the various GP's, the FT, the Industrial Switcher, the Lionel Junction 0-4-0, the 4-4-2 / 2-4-2 steamers, and the Dockside steamer: All these locos came in sets at one time with 027 track.

The fly in the ointment is that Lionel is no longer making 027 track, so they are pushing FasTrack. The funny thing is that while many locomotives in starter sets are listed as 031 minimum curve, you go to the traditional rolling stock section of the catalog, and they still say 027 minimum curve. BUT if (?)Lionel lowered the fuel tank assembly to on the GP's to accommodate the new LionChief technology, that could affect the clearance with 027 switches. 

But one more glitch would be the starter sets that have come with the deep well double stack cars. Even though those cars are from older tooling using the traditionally sized trailer, those cars will not clear the non-postwar Lionel 027 switch box housing, whereas the GP engines in the set should.

The new Lionel Tier 4 starter set engine is over 16 inches in length. That's more like a MTH Imperial type diesel, rather than the older Railking Dash-8 type locomotives that were a traditional 14 inches in length. I was personally very disappointed with the size of the new Lionel starter set Tier 4 engine. I don't consider it to be a traditionally sized diesel at all. Even the older MTH Railking Dash type engines made it through 027 curves and switches... I know as I had one.

I have seen the MTH Imperial sized Dash type diesels come in sets with the MTH track that has a 031 curve. They do make that curve though they look pretty ridiculous doing it. I notice that MTH has gone back to including the older Railking based diesels with a 14 inch length in starter sets.

But since the Lionel Tier 4 is from new tooling, the only sure way to know if it makes 031 curves is to actually test one on 031 curves. The 031 switches shouldn't be a problem as far as switch box housing as compared to the last made 027 switches.

I guess Lionel figures that people who are using 027 track, have been in the hobby long enough to know which items will and will not run well on 027 curves.

I would think you'd be okay on O31.  My friend, and fellow forumite David1, had O31 Super O track and ran a scale AC4400W and SD70ACe on it without problems.

-Greg

Greg, Lionel Super 0 track was never made in a 31 inch curve. Super 0 curves were the same 36-inch diameter as the FasTrack that is included in train sets.

I was hoping someone who has actually tried to run this specific locomotive on O-31 curves and through postwar O-31 switches would reply to my question.  That's the only way to be absolutely sure I can run this locomotive on my tinplate 4 x 8 layout.  Anyone?

Another consideration is that the catalog may have a typo.  The Albert Hall in the catalog has O31 as a minimum curve.  I can assure you it runs on O36 and greater.

Yep, the Hogwart's locomotive will NOT run on O31, it barely makes O36, it's the same as the Albert Hall with a different paint job.

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

Greg, Lionel Super 0 track was never made in a 31 inch curve. Super 0 curves were the same 36-inch diameter as the FasTrack that is included in train sets.

My apologies on my brain fart.  I obviously had football, not trains on my mind this morning.    No idea why I thought his curves were O31.  His layout was 4'  wide and the loops at each end had a small straight section in the middle which took the width out to 46" or so.  No way they were O31 curves.

-Greg 

The superO curves are o36 and I also had a straight at each end.  Way to go Greg, after being over so many times you still thought it was O31. Too much Eagles on your mind, lol.

Dave

Btw Lionel rates all set engines for O36 because of fastrack. 

Hey Greg, that's fine. Hope the team you wanted to win did so. Just want Bayshore to have correct information.

So Bayshore, maybe someone will come along with an exact answer for you. In the mean time, here's a video of an MTH Imperial diesel (17 inch length according to MTH) on MTH Realtrax (31 inch curve) and you can easily see the drastic overhang on it. To me, shorter engines just look better on tighter curves.

Next up is a video of the actual Lionel engine in question from the BNSF starter set. At the 3:25 mark, the engine starts going through the tightest curve on this layout. I'm guessing that walkway space is around 3 feet, but I can't say for sure.

In this next video, around the 1:23 mark, we start seeing a close up shot of this tight curve seen above. The layout is clearly 027 track, and probably 042 curves on the outer loop. But this tight curve appears to have some o gauge track sections in it: The black ties and shape of them gives it away. Also it appears that the track sections have 4 ties each. The ties are also open on the ends versus the fold down in the sheet metal on the 027 track ties. At any rate, it's NOT a regular 031 curve as with most O gauge track. But it's still a tighter curve, but probably no tighter than the FasTrack 036 curve.

Anyways, hope you get an exact answer. I too would be interested in knowing. That's where the forum is useful: I do remember all the discussion here about the Hogwart's / Albert Hall style steam loco needing the 036 curve because of the front guide truck hitting the locomotive body on anything tighter.

Whoever is working at Lionel on the catalog type, is just copying the information they have been given by a supervisor or whoever. We are actually the folks who are operating this stuff and more likely to sometimes know the real information.

Though years ago, I inquired on a minimum radius with MTH, back in the day when it was no trouble to reach a human being when calling MTH. Whomever I spoke with was very nice (with a sense of humor too ), and told me that because the tightest curve of MTH RealTrax was 031, that was the standard. The only way MTH would list a product in their catalog as being an 027 minimum curve was if they had actually tested the train item on 027 curved track.