Williams PRR E6....

Pictures are useful here, the mountain view isn't helping much.

Search for eBay item number 304609004005

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pictures are useful here, the mountain view isn't helping much.

True, but you gotta admit it's impressive! 😁

Actually, I didn't post a photo ( of the engine) because I figured anyone who might have a suggestion would already know what it looks like. I will post a picture or two tomorrow. Thanks.

Mark in Oregon

Okay, here's one side:

...and the other:

Mark (still) in Oregon

Mark, the eccentrics are held in place by solder only. The eccentric has a square hole, and the end of the crank pin is squared for alignment. If you should decide to disassemble, keep the clock positions noted for reassembly. I believe I’m the one that got that E6 tender from you for a project I had built ……I put it to good use,….😁

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

1. Mark, the eccentrics are held in place by solder only. The eccentric has a square hole, and the end of the crank pin is squared for alignment. If you should decide to disassemble, keep the clock positions noted for reassembly.

2. I believe I’m the one that got that E6 tender from you for a project I had built ……I put it to good use,….😁

1. Thanks for the info; I see a very similar discussion taking place in the 2 rail group... regarding the same engine.

2. Yes, it was you; glad you had a use for it! 👍

Mark in Oregon

Been a long time since i owned one of those engines.  Remember changing the tires without having to unsolder the rods.  If memory serves me right the rod on the front driver is held on with a bolt.  Pretty sure i removed the rod from the front driver and removed the rest of the running gear and rear drivers from the chassi.  Slide the new tires over all of the rods to the wheel sets. Im positive I did not unsolder anything.  Just takes time

Bessemer, I was thinking the same thing as you. Curiosity got the best of me, and I looked for a photo of an E6 online, and from what I could see, the E6 has tires on all 4 drivers. My Williams locos (all with 6 or 8 drivers) have tires on the front and rear drivers only, so there's no need to de-solder anything as you mentioned.

Strummer, what are you going to use for tires? The drivers on these locos have very narrow grooves. I have several of these locos and have been searching for tires that fit.

Is this the Crown Edition No. 5300 (Brass)?

Mike

BlueComet400: that all sounds very confusing. Since (all 4) tires are in "okay" condition, I'll just leave well enough alone for now. Let me know if you find suitable replacements, just in case! 🙂

Mike: I'm not sure, as all I got was the engine (no tender or original box)...but it is all brass.

Mark in Oregon

@RoyBoy posted:

Search for eBay item number 304609004005

That's perfect; thanks!!

Mark in Oregon

You can do without 2 of the 4 tires. I have locos with none; they do not seem to care that I never replaced the tires.

I have no grades.

@Strummer posted:

That's perfect; thanks!!

Mark in Oregon

It's gone now. Did you buy it?

@RoyBoy posted:

It's gone now. Did you buy it?

Yes... thanks again.

Mark in Oregon

@Bessemer643 posted:

Been a long time since i owned one of those engines.  Remember changing the tires without having to unsolder the rods.  If memory serves me right the rod on the front driver is held on with a bolt.  Pretty sure i removed the rod from the front driver and removed the rest of the running gear and rear drivers from the chassi.  Slide the new tires over all of the rods to the wheel sets. Im positive I did not unsolder anything.  Just takes time

I kinda get you describe, but in order to apply the new tires onto the main drivers, those side rod assemblies still have to come off, whether the wheel sets are still in the chassis or not, right? 🤔

Maybe I should have "Harmonyards" Pat set this up as a 2 rail engine and just get rid of those d*mn traction tires altogether! 😁

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

I kinda get you describe, but in order to apply the new tires onto the main drivers, those side rod assemblies still have to come off, whether the wheel sets are still in the chassis or not, right? 🤔

Why do they have to come off?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Why do they have to come off?

I'm not sure... except this whole thing sounds like a pretty complicated procedure to simply replace what I (and probably some others) consider to be completely unnecessary items... traction tires. Ugh.

Gee whiz, even N scale ( for the most part) has moved on from these things. Okay, rant over. 🙂

Mark in Oregon

The traction tires have to end up on the loco side of the siderods. The only way I know of to accomplish that is to remove the side rod and slip the tire behind it and then onto the driver. If someone knows of another way to install tires on a steamer, I'd love to know what it is.

How about a step by step procedure Mark?…desoldering the rods is the easiest way. You can dismantle the engine to get to the tires, but it is a lot simpler to just touch them with an iron and pop them off,….follow the order …

1. remove boiler shell

2. rotate motor by hand so one eccentric is at the 6 o’clock position. Note orientation ( direction eccentric rod faces )

3. hold eccentric with tweezers or needle nose pliers at the small end ( end with the link rod )

4. touch big end of eccentric with soldering iron while lifting upwards.

5. swing eccentric out of the way, lift rod and any spacers off crank pin. ( note how rod & spacers are oriented on crank pin ) you may have to loosen connecting rod bolt on front driver to lift it high enough off rear driver crank pin.

6. replace traction tire

7. place rods & spacers back on crank pin in their correct orientation.

8. grab eccentric with tweezers or needle nose with one hand, and the soldering iron with the other.

9. set eccentric over crank pin in the correct orientation as stated in step 2

10. touch eccentric big end with soldering iron to melt solder, and it will “fall” back in place.  

11. inspect your work. Hold locomotive up and make sure the now freshly soldered eccentric is square …ie; the eccentric face should be parallel with the wheel face. In other words, make sure you didn’t solder it crooked

12. test run engine BEOFRE proceeding to the other side.

13. if step 12 was successful, repeat procedure on the other side

14. job done, prepare peanut butter & jelly sandwich & a glass of milk, ….enjoy

Pat

Unless you can remove ALL of the linkage from the valve gear hanger at the front of the chassis, there's no way to install a tire without separating the eccentric from the wheel.  Even if you were to drop the axle out of the frame (and on most brass locos you can do so), you still wouldn't be able to get the tire in there.  Why Williams and Weaver soldered the eccentric cranks on (instead of using a hex bolt like Lionel and MTH), I'll never know.  Soldered-on eccentrics just compound my frustration with traction tires.  And these brass babies usually have FOUR tires, that are narrower than your typical MTH replacement tires.  No thank you!

Ted

Thank you for describing this much better than I could...and for the "play by play", Pat. 😁 I appreciate your taking the time.

And yes, this "brass baby" has tires on all four drivers... it's a nice model; I just wish it didn't have those TTs.

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

Gee whiz, even N scale ( for the most part) has moved on from these things. Okay, rant over. 🙂

Mark in Oregon

I wish that was more universally true, Mark. Broadway Limited, N scale’s primary producer of N scale steamers these days, keeps putting traction tires on two drivers. I just checked, and, sure enough, my briefly seldom-used GN Mikado and Milwaukee Road Pacific both have dried-up traction tires peeling off the rear drivers. Even my new BLI Big Boy has a pair. What a PITA.

@Strummer posted:

And yes, this "brass baby" has tires on all four drivers... it's a nice model; I just wish it didn't have those TTs.

The good news is, the grooves are so narrow that you can leave the tires off and they'll run fine.  For Lionel and MTH, the wider grooves create issues at times if you run without tires.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The good news is, the grooves are so narrow that you can leave the tires off and they'll run fine. 

That IS "good news"...thanks! 🙂

Mark in Oregon

Note that traction suffers, so you might want to pick up a couple more Williams E6's and triple-head them.

Thanks to "RoyBoy's" lead, I was able to pick up a tender. It's a Lionel, and came without trucks, so I was able to cobble together some bolsters (Walthers), added a knuckle coupler (Athearn) and put on some plastic (gasp!) Athearn trucks for the time being. The tender drawbar I made is too short, but for now it looks good and everything runs...

Now to wait 'till "Harmonyards" Pat gets into some serious 2-railing; I think this might be a good candidate...

Mark in Oregon