Williams (Samhongsa) Brass USRA Mikado?

Consider simply sanding lightly where the lettering and stripes are, with 600 wet sandpaper, then clean well and shoot some Scalecoat gloss black over the bakes-on finish.  In the end you will have a much more durable finish, and obscure fewer details than you would with a new prime coat.

Plus, it would be a lot less work.

They run fine.  Moving air pumps is not difficult, but there you really would have to remove paint and feather the edges.  Do that with wet sandpaper.

Mine always looked small, but it was the same size as an Overland that came through here for modifications.

Thanks guys!

I intended to remodel it for a SAL Q3 Mike, but they also had the USRA Mikes (SAL Q1 class).  Once it arrives I'll know more on which way to go.

These were very good runners. I'm in the process of converting one to a Boston & Albany. I removed what appeared to be a more passenger type pilot with steps up to the walkway. A little heavy on the scratch built footboards. The steps are pretty crude but they are what the B&A had. For a tender. I 'm adding an MTH switching style tender. Everything was easily removed and added using a pencil style butane torch.

Looks fine Dave

I want to mod it into an "ugly" (You're welcome Dominic ) SAL Q3:

But I'll need to move the front dome, make/buy a new smoke box door, move the air pumps, relocate the headlight, and make/buy new air reservoirs just to get it close to appearing like a Q3.

I recently built a Vanderbilt tender, currently behind a SAL 4-6-0:

I plan on swapping the 2 tenders, their Ten-Wheelers never used the Vanderbilt style tenders.

I have a pencil torch, it's just a matter of, finding/making the parts and...do I want to take on another project or simply do a re-paint?

The Q3 was the main 2-8-2 Seaboard had on their roster, 117 out of about 170 Mikes were Q3 class.  The Q3 and Q1 (USRA) were very close dimensionally, at least enough that, given all the other liberties the O scale makers take, the conversion should look fine.

If I ever want a Seaboard Q3 Mike this is probably my best chance of "getting" one as there's not a manufacturer out there willing to build one, given the limited number of Seaboard Air Line fans in the crowd.

Mr. Deldridge:  Wow, flying pumps and a coal-fired Vanderbilt in the best C&O tradition...always glad other roads had those "styling" touches....If you do that,

it will be nice to see it on here.

If I'm able to "giterdone" I'll definitely post photos.

Seaboard had quite a few Vanderbilt and semi-Venderbilt tenders, I've noticed 3-4 varieties in the books I have, even some of their Pacifics had them.  It's a shame manufacturer's shy away from them cause the look pretty cool.

Vanderbilts are MUCH more difficult when it comes to mounting circuit boards and speakers.  There is no flat tender floor to work with.  If installing TMCC in a standard brass box tender, it is easy to isolate the tender body from the frame and use the body as the TMCC antenna.  On the one Weaver Vanderbilt tender I worked on, this approach could not be used.

Bob,

On my tender I made a "floor" using a piece of styrene "I" beam that is held in place by the 2 truck screws.  the "I" beam has bosses glued to it which make it up off the bottom, giving space underneath that I can use for either a tie-wrap or add a flat floor surface on which to mount the electronics.  My Vandy tender is PVC piping and styrene:

I've got an email out to Ron Dettmer, who helped a bit on this tender, about parts he used when he made his SAL Q3 Mikes a few years ago.  here's a phot he sent me back then:

One thing the Q3 has is the Franklin booster trailing truck, which gave the engine another 12,000 lbs of tractive effort.  Not sure I've ever seen in in O scale before:

Not sure who might offer one of these things.

I see your going to make a q3 steam locomotive.Althou I still think they are homely.But I seen a picture of one with a man standing beside it.Turns out they are a lot biger than I thought.Years ago I was at a train show.There was a guy who had brass trains.He had a sal m2 mountain steam locomotive.Every nut and bolt in the right place.God I wished I had the money.Oh yea the head light was on to.I would love some body came out with a r1 steamer.Which in the days of steam ran through my hometown of monroe n.c.

Afew years ago I saw an mth sal e7 or 8.I sorry I let that one get away.Because in their later years they pulled freight.I think they pulled piggyback trains.

Here's a photo with 5 men in front :

And you can always get the 3rd Rail E7:

Or repaint a WBB E7:

Look at how huge those air pumps are compared to the men.  Like Hot Water said in the other thread...that's a lot of weight to be hanging on the side of the boiler.

Bob, hope you can put together that Seaboard Q3.  I have the same hope for an ACL 4-6-2 but don't think anyone else will make it.  K line did but I missed it.  It was part of a complete train set.  A friend of mine customized a 4-6-0 WBB model and painted and lettered it for ACL.  That's the only ACL steamer I have.  Finally got my ACL E6 A-B-A set back after almost three months at MTH.  Everything fixed now but it wasn't cheap.  However, it is like a new engine now with upgraded electronics.

P.S. Love your SAL E7 units.  Still have my MTH E8 citrus version and fantasy cars but might be talked into trading them if something better comes along.

Ray

Hey Ray, good to hear from you!

Me too.  Ron Dettmer just email me and said he's sending me some erection drawings of the Q3 and some drawings he made of the front end of the engine (door/manhole).

Check E-Bay every chance you get.  I've been looking for one of these Williams brass Mikes for a while now and either missed the bid, or didn't have the funds when I did catch it.  I just happened to be looking around the other day and spotted this one and got it as a "Buy It Now" item for less than $200 shipped!!!  that's $50 cheaper than I've seen them anywhere else and a lot cheaper than what they were when they came out back in the 90s.  Was the ACL Pacific a USRA type?  If I get another steamer a Pacific will be my choice, but my next quest is a F3A Phase 2.  Both those engines would just about round out my stable of Seaboard motive power.

Hey bob ever think about geting your hands on a few mth mohawks.And paint it up as a m2 or m1 sal steamer.I did that with a mth nyo&w mohawk found some decales and it turn out pretty good.The hard part is finding the right decales.Oh and the q3 having a boster thats pretty slick.I guss if they had a siteration were they could not get another locomotive.All in all I have to say sal was a good size railroad that held it own.Being between the southern railway and the atlantic coast line.Some times sal would beat the acl in to jacksonville.Despite the fact acl had a flater route.

Bob, yes the ACL pacific was a USRA type.

Ray

You have seen this one before, but these are better photos:

All brass - Lobaugh Pacific boiler, extended.

Bob, I do recall that engine

Speaking of boiler extensions, the 4-6-0 shown above used a MTH Railking 2-8-0 boiler that was extended forward of the front dome...using a plastic pill bottle!!!  I was able to mount it to the die-cast boiler with two #4 screws, the smoke stack and front are super glued in place.

I don't plan on doing anything but admiring the engine when I get it, but I'm already getting data together to see what needs to be looked at.  I may run it to see how she acts, but I'll eventually install either TMCC (ERR) or PS2.

Bob, sent you a email with a link for a Franklin booster trailing truck

Kurt

Thanks Kurt!

I was looking around last night and saw that PSC makes one in HO, but haven't located an O scale part yet.

Here's a diagram I found too:

I believe I can make a fairly plain looking example, but the more I find the more detailed it may become.  I would have never thought about all the piping required if I had never seen this diagram, I figured it provided power thru osmosis.

If you look here:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/vie....php?f=1&t=27113

it'll give you a link to a PDF file of a book on the booster engine.  Just right-click and "Save Link As".  The link is in the 2nd post.

It's 117 pages long, but it'll give a little insight on how these things work and has good drawings/photos.

There are a number of sources for O Scale boosters just like the one pictured.  The Scale Craft and Lobaugh are crude but believable, and PSC and I believe Kemtron made them with full swivel steam connections that make disassembly less than easy.

The Lionel scale Hudson had one, although not well detailed, and I just found an Adams casting that has quite good detail for its day.  Let me guess that once you get really serious in your search they will be coming out of the woodwork.

PSC part number is PSH-4417.  The booster with piping kit is -9082.

Allan

Thanks guys, I'm on the hunt!

That booster manual is amazing! Thx for posting the link, it made for some great Sunday morning perusal.

Norm, you're welcome!

Bob Stevenson sells the booster engine, $12.  I couldn't find the PSC version and without a catalog (REALLY, does it take this long?) I'm going with Bob as he has provided me with the parts I need the past 2 years.

I wonder what that would sound like when idling or applied. That would be a neat sound feature.

Now there is a heck of an idea! Especially on those steam locomotives that have the booster exhaust piped externally, such as the famous New York Central Hudsons (at least prior to the removal of all the boosters in later years). In case folks didn't know, that is what that little exhaust stack is up by the main stack on the NYC Hudsons, i.e. THAT is the booster exhaust stack!

When starting a heavy train with the booster engaged, the first sound generally heard would be the open cylinder cocks on the booster steam engine, then once the Engineer closes the cylinder cocks, there would be the exhaust sounds like a Shay locomotive moving ever faster, assuming the booster exhaust is piped externally. Many steam locomotives have the booster exhaust piped into, or very near, the exhaust stand inside the smokebox, so the booster exhaust is then pretty difficult to hear (SP 4449 is an example).

Anyway, that sure would be a VERY interesting sound to be added to booster equipped steam locomotive models, such as the NYC Hudson.

Jack and Norm,

Between you guys, Ed King, Ed Bommer, and a few others (too many to name in the time I have before going to work), we have gotten a history lesson online, thanks for all your knowledge

That would be a cool sound for Lionel/ERR, and MTH to incorporate in their sound files.

Thanks Bob. Now that I think about it, I'm probably one of the very few people still alive that actually have experience with a booster.

Jack, I wonder how many folks there are in North America that are qualified steam engineers?

Here's a YouTube video I found of a small-scale steam engine booster:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EfUZfkAEuo

I take it it's being tested using compressed air vice steam.

Poor little thing is going to throw itself apart!

Yes, it was running on compressed air. Looks like it was for a tender truck application since it had side rods. A locomotive trailing truck would not have had side rods, at least not in the U.S.

The Mike came in today!!!

She's a beaut, maybe too nice to try remodeling into a Q3, something I need to give a lot of thought too.

You guys said to use wet 600 grit paper to remove the lettering, should I go over the whole engine also or just the lettering (the surface paint is smooth/slick feeling)?

If I start making mods then a full repaint is in the works, but will still only remove what I need to to do the job.

For lettering removal i prefer 1200 or even 3000 (yes, 3000, from 3M at NAPA stores) grit wet/dry paper, or sometimes a 3M green scouring pad. Less damage to the surrounding paint.

jackson

I've got some 1200 or 1500 grit so I'm good to go.

I removed the 3 screws holding the boiler to the chassis and with the 1500 grit I was able to easily remove the lettering.

Even if I decide to keep it as a Seaboard USRA engine I'll still need to paint it so removing the lettering was going to happen anyway

I'll have to add another pair of air reservoirs though as the Seaboard's USRA Q1 class had 2 on each side.

I already have a Delta truck for the rear (thanks to Ron Dettmer ) and I've determined what I need to get and what I need to remove/replace to turn it into a Q3.  I'll have to examine the boiler to see just how much effort it'll take to do so.

While this engine is still under conventional control, is it better to run it using DCS powered by a Lionel PowerHouse 180 (18VAC), in conventional mode, or is it better to run it using a MTH Z750 (21VAC)?  Is there any harm in using either?

I eventually plan on adding PS2.

Here's a couple of photos of that beautiful front end of the Q3:

Ron Dettmer sent me a couple of drawings of the Q3 showing the front end and the manhole cover so I can make one.

Any idea how the air pumps were mounted?  Did they sit on a shelf bracket or were they mounted on studs welded to the front?

The horizontal bar on top of the pumps appears to be a handrail.

Are those Westinghouse pumps?

Bob, Looking at the drawing Ron Dettmer sent me it appears the pumps may be mounted on a shelf with a back where the pumps actually bolt to.  The shelf also appears to have hinges so the pumps can be swung out of the way.  Although I may be looking at the hinges for the full smoke box front.

I just emailed Ron to see if he can clarify things a bit.

The tender that came with the Williams/Samhongsa USRA engine has the same QSI install as Weaver 4-6-0 I bought from Keystoned Ed.  Is there anything that can be used from it if I install TMCC/ERR?  The QSI module is a single board in the tender and a octagonal or hexagon shaped board in the engine for lighting and smoke (I assume).