I have a two light, three wire signal tower with red and green lights that I would like to use with a Lionel FasTrack Remote Switch. Is there a way to connect the signal to the remote switch so that the lights switch between green and red? I just realized I left out the fact that this is a FasTrack switch.
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It can be done, with a couple of diodes and LEDs to mimic the switch controller indicators. I would have to experiment to get it right.
@ADCX Rob posted:It can be done, with a couple of diodes and LEDs to mimic the switch controller indicators. I would have to experiment to get it right.
The Signals that I have use AC since I tried a 9 volt battery and got nothing but when I touched the signal to an AC source they lit up. I'm wondering if I could use some sort of relay wired to the Fastrack Switch so that when you throw the switch it it also throws the relay which would switch the light that's being lit?
You could use latching relays activated(& released) by the trigger rails on the switch. A 022 switch machine mounted under the table would be simpler still.
I am sure you can do it with an Atlas 200 relay. I used these on my reverse loops and they should work for what you have in mind, not cheap, $12.00 -$15.00 each but pretty simple hook up.
Ray
I believe that the LEDs in the switch (turnout) controller receive a positive or negative 5 volts from the yellow and black wires to indicate the position. You should be able to tap into those to operate your signals.
Leo is correct, this could be done with a fairly simple circuit, a low current 5V coil relay and a diode comes to mind. For instance, I have some 5V coil relays that have a 10ma operating current, I'm guessing I could probably use the LED output directly to activate them, a diode would make them directional. In the worst case, I'd have to add a transistor or FET driver to provide more current if the LED output isn't up to the task.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Leo is correct, this could be done with a fairly simple circuit, a low current 5V coil relay and a diode comes to mind. For instance, I have some 5V coil relays that have a 10ma operating current, I'm guessing I could probably use the LED output directly to activate them, a diode would make them directional. In the worst case, I'd have to add a transistor or FET driver to provide more current if the LED output isn't up to the task.
What would this circuit look like? I am fairly familiar with components but don't have to the skills to figure how things would go together to work. Could I tie the relays into the underside of the switch, connecting them to where the wires go in that are operated by the throw bar? I would like to have it work where I throw one switch and both the turnout and the signals change. I'm trying to find wiring diagrams but I'm not finding anything....
Just to be clear, your signal lights have incandescent bulbs (not LEDs)?
No one has posted (on this thread anyway) how much current the FasTrack yellow wire can provide and whether it can directly drive your two-light signal (if it's LED) or a "low-current" 5V relay if you need a relay to switch the higher-currents needed to drive incandescent bulbs.
There are low-cost relay modules (~$2 each on eBay) that have the transistor drivers already installed to activate the relay with low-currents - no soldering required but there are details. What is your intended power source for the switch and the signal?
The Fastrack yellow wire is a signal wire, I'm sure it's not capable of much current. That's why I suggested a low coil current, and perhaps even a transistor or FET driver.
@stan2004 posted:Just to be clear, your signal lights have incandescent bulbs (not LEDs)?
No one has posted (on this thread anyway) how much current the FasTrack yellow wire can provide and whether it can directly drive your two-light signal (if it's LED) or a "low-current" 5V relay if you need a relay to switch the higher-currents needed to drive incandescent bulbs.
There are low-cost relay modules (~$2 each on eBay) that have the transistor drivers already installed to activate the relay with low-currents - no soldering required but there are details. What is your intended power source for the switch and the signal?
The signal lights are LEDs. I opened up the throw bar switch with the two momentary buttons and touched the ground wire of the signal light to ground and one of the LEDs to one of the LEDs on the switch board and got no response but when I touched the wire to one of the wires going to the switch it worked but it doesn't work to switch the lights from green to red.
@Brendan posted:
Where does the wiring go for the signal?
@Roger Elliott posted:...The Signals that I have use AC since I tried a 9 volt battery and got nothing but when I touched the signal to an AC source they lit up.
I'm still not clear on what you have.
You have a 3-wire signal that has a red and green LED (not bulb).
You want to connect the 3-wire signal to a FasTrack Remote Switch to indicate switch position.
You are using a Controller (guts of which shown above left, photo from this OGR thread) with a 4-conductor cable to the FT switch.
The issue is how to connect the Yellow and Black wires to your 3-wire signal depicted above...and what components (relay, resistor, etc.) might need to be added.
Correct any of the above. Then here's my questions:
Did you open up the 3-wire signal and can you post a photo of the guts...or post a schematic if you have one...or give us a manufacturer item # if it has one?
You say you hooked up a 9V (DC) battery to the 3-wire signal and nothing lit up...but then you hooked up AC and "they" (both?) lit up. For these tests, which wires (call them 1, 2, 3) did you apply the voltages to and did you try all combinations in both directions when using DC? In other words, for 9V battery 1-2 and 2-1, then 2-3 and 3-2, then 1-3 and 3-1. For AC, it's OK to simply test 1-2, 2-3, and 1-3.
For the AC cases, I assume this was a train transformer and what was the voltage setting?
@stan2004 posted:I'm still not clear on what you have.
You have a 3-wire signal that has a red and green LED (not bulb).
You want to connect the 3-wire signal to a FasTrack Remote Switch to indicate switch position.
You are using a Controller (guts of which shown above left, photo from this OGR thread) with a 4-conductor cable to the FT switch.
The issue is how to connect the Yellow and Black wires to your 3-wire signal depicted above...and what components (relay, resistor, etc.) might need to be added.
Correct any of the above. Then here's my questions:
Did you open up the 3-wire signal and can you post a photo of the guts...or post a schematic if you have one...or give us a manufacturer item # if it has one?
You say you hooked up a 9V (DC) battery to the 3-wire signal and nothing lit up...but then you hooked up AC and "they" (both?) lit up. For these tests, which wires (call them 1, 2, 3) did you apply the voltages to and did you try all combinations in both directions when using DC? In other words, for 9V battery 1-2 and 2-1, then 2-3 and 3-2, then 1-3 and 3-1. For AC, it's OK to simply test 1-2, 2-3, and 1-3.
For the AC cases, I assume this was a train transformer and what was the voltage setting?
The picture you have matches what I've got right now. I have the exact switch unit which which you have pictured and the signal has three wires. A red one for the red light and a green one for the green light and a black wire for ground. I am running 12v ac which runs the switch just fine. Someone suggested the Atlas snap relay tied into the switch for the turnout and then having the signal tied into the snap relay so when you throw the switch the signal will switch from red to green and back again.
OK. I understand that photos/diagrams/specs of your 3-wire signal may not be practical for you to post.
I'm still looking for more information about the signal itself. Previously I asked about your experiment. It's re-stated below with the wire colors BLK, RED, GRN for your mystery signal.
You say you hooked up a 9V (DC) battery to the 3-wire signal and nothing lit up. The battery of course has a + and - terminal and should even be labeled as such. So for the 9V test are you saying no light for:
a) BLK to -, RED to +
b) BLK to -, GRN to +
c) BLK to +, RED to -
d) BLK to +, GRN to -
But then you did get light for 12V AC:
a) BLK to common, RED to AC hot
b) BLK to common, GRN to AC hot
@stan2004 posted:OK. I understand that photos/diagrams/specs of your 3-wire signal may not be practical for you to post.
I'm still looking for more information about the signal itself. Previously I asked about your experiment. It's re-stated below with the wire colors BLK, RED, GRN for your mystery signal.
You say you hooked up a 9V (DC) battery to the 3-wire signal and nothing lit up. The battery of course has a + and - terminal and should even be labeled as such. So for the 9V test are you saying no light for:
a) BLK to -, RED to +
b) BLK to -, GRN to +
c) BLK to +, RED to -
d) BLK to +, GRN to -
But then you did get light for 12V AC:
a) BLK to common, RED to AC hot
b) BLK to common, GRN to AC hot
Yes basically any combo of wires to + and - on a 9volt battery got me nothing. But using AC with BLK. to common, red or green would light up just fine.
Here's a photo of the signal and the manual for the switch
OK, we are making some progress! So that component shown in photo has 4 colored stripes that look like (right to left) BROWN - BLACK - something - GOLD. Is the something BROWN, RED, ORANGE, or ?
And is/was there any possibility that with the 9V battery test that the lights might have been on but VERY DIM? By very dim I mean maybe you need to turn off the room lights to see it.
Do you have a multimeter and comfortable using it?
And, with absolutely no intent on being a wiseacre, do you know your 9V battery is good? I hope you don't say you did the "9V battery tongue test"! 
Google it for a good chuckle...
Hi Stan. Yes that is brown black red resistor. I think that's 1k. The battery was new out of the box and I checked the voltage with our meter so it was good. And yeah I've done "tongue tests" in my more stupid younger years.... ;-)
@stan2004 posted:Do you have a multimeter and comfortable using it?
And, with absolutely no intent on being a wiseacre, do you know your 9V battery is good? I hope you don't say you did the "9V battery tongue test"!
Hi Stan. Yes that is brown black red resistor. I think that's 1k. The battery was new out of the box and I checked the voltage with our meter so it was good. And yeah I've done "tongue tests" in my more stupid younger years.... ;-)
SO I'm thinking some sort of relay connected to the switch of the turnout.....?
It's very puzzling that you get nothing to light up even dimly with 9V DC. An LED should do "something" with 9V DC applied thru a 1K resistor in the proper polarity. But to the matter at hand, this suggests to me that trying to drive the signal with "only" 5V DC from the yellow wire also won't work. Yes, you could fuss with lowering the resistor value but I'm not aware of any published information on the capability of the yellow wire to drive more than what it is already tasked for in the pushbutton controller.
So, yes, a relay that applies your 12V AC to your 3-wire signal would surely work if you can get a relay that can be triggered with a low level yellow-wire current. As GRJ suggested, this might mean adding some kind of transistor buffer.
Frankly, if your 3-wire signal is something that is widely available and you can identify it as such, I think you'll get more feedback. I'm wondering if this might be viewed as a one-off.
@stan2004 posted:It's very puzzling that you get nothing to light up even dimly with 9V DC. An LED should do "something" with 9V DC applied thru a 1K resistor in the proper polarity. But to the matter at hand, this suggests to me that trying to drive the signal with "only" 5V DC from the yellow wire also won't work. Yes, you could fuss with lowering the resistor value but I'm not aware of any published information on the capability of the yellow wire to drive more than what it is already tasked for in the pushbutton controller.
So, yes, a relay that applies your 12V AC to your 3-wire signal would surely work if you can get a relay that can be triggered with a low level yellow-wire current. As GRJ suggested, this might mean adding some kind of transistor buffer.
Frankly, if your 3-wire signal is something that is widely available and you can identify it as such, I think you'll get more feedback. I'm wondering if this might be viewed as a one-off.
The signal is made by Evemodel in China. IF someone gave me a diagram of how the relay and the transistor would be connected that would be the help I need. The instructions call for 14v ac or rather that is what it is rated for....
I'm wondering if the signal is straight LED's and the LED's are toasted by testing without current limiting. If connecting the 9V battery through a 1K resistor doesn't light them, I'd say the LED's are toast. I'm assuming you tried both polarities by flipping the battery terminals, right?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I'm wondering if the signal is straight LED's and the LED's are toasted by testing without current limiting. If connecting the 9V battery through a 1K resistor doesn't light them, I'd say the LED's are toast. I'm assuming you tried both polarities by flipping the battery terminals, right?
But the signals work fine with AC at 12 volts. Maybe they need 12v DC?
I think there is some incredulity of a 3-wire LED signal that requires AC voltage and does not work with DC voltage! But let's put aside the suspension-of-disbelief and re-state the application as simply driving a 3-wire 2-aspect incandescent signal from the Yellow-wire of an FT turnout. By incandescent signal, I mean something that requires a level of AC power that one would not expect the Yellow-wire to be able to directly light up. So now we're talking a relay...as fussing with a triac (an "AC" transistor) should not be one's first experience with DIY electronics. In my opinion of course.
There are many alternative but here's one I cobbled together with stuff in my parts stash. I do not have an FT switch to provide a proof-of-concept but I made some electrical measurements that convince me that it would work. The idea is to convert an inexpensive (less than $2 on eBay with free shipping from Asia) off-the-shelf 12V DC relay module to work with 12V AC.
But you have to surround the relay module with maybe 50 cents of "loose" components. The problem is you generally must buy 5, 10, 50, etc. of an inexpensive component which makes them no so inexpensive after all. I don't know the answer to the "minimum quantity" conundrum.
I did wire up the above circuit and it works over a wide AC voltage range - 10V to 18V - which I chose as what you might get from the Accessory AC transformer output up to O-gauge command-voltage.
As noted in my first diagram, this approach assumes that the black wire on the FT controller is the same as the AC-common (outer-rail). Again, I do not have an FT turnout but this can be confirmed fairly quickly with a meter.
For the technically curious, the trigger current into the 12V DC relay module was only 1.5 mA when driven by 5V DC. In fact, the relay module triggered with only 0.3 mA (with about 2.5V applied). So I'm fairly confident the FT turnout's yellow wire can supply this. Also, I confirmed this worked with a capacitor as small as only 100uF. This 12V DC relay module also operates down to about 9V DC.
Separately, while shown triggered by the FT turnout's yellow wire, this "design" can be used for the more generic insulated-rail trigger where wheel axles straddle the outer rails of 3-rail O gauge track. There are some minor changes but the cost is the about the same; if there is interest start a different thread so not to lose focus on the original problem.
I'm trying to do a similar thing to you. I've heard people have had luck with these relays.
@stan2004 posted:I think there is some incredulity of a 3-wire LED signal that requires AC voltage and does not work with DC voltage! But let's put aside the suspension-of-disbelief and re-state the application as simply driving a 3-wire 2-aspect incandescent signal from the Yellow-wire of an FT turnout. By incandescent signal, I mean something that requires a level of AC power that one would not expect the Yellow-wire to be able to directly light up. So now we're talking a relay...as fussing with a triac (an "AC" transistor) should not be one's first experience with DIY electronics. In my opinion of course.
There are many alternative but here's one I cobbled together with stuff in my parts stash. I do not have an FT switch to provide a proof-of-concept but I made some electrical measurements that convince me that it would work. The idea is to convert an inexpensive (less than $2 on eBay with free shipping from Asia) off-the-shelf 12V DC relay module to work with 12V AC.
But you have to surround the relay module with maybe 50 cents of "loose" components. The problem is you generally must buy 5, 10, 50, etc. of an inexpensive component which makes them no so inexpensive after all. I don't know the answer to the "minimum quantity" conundrum.
I did wire up the above circuit and it works over a wide AC voltage range - 10V to 18V - which I chose as what you might get from the Accessory AC transformer output up to O-gauge command-voltage.
As noted in my first diagram, this approach assumes that the black wire on the FT controller is the same as the AC-common (outer-rail). Again, I do not have an FT turnout but this can be confirmed fairly quickly with a meter.
For the technically curious, the trigger current into the 12V DC relay module was only 1.5 mA when driven by 5V DC. In fact, the relay module triggered with only 0.3 mA (with about 2.5V applied). So I'm fairly confident the FT turnout's yellow wire can supply this. Also, I confirmed this worked with a capacitor as small as only 100uF. This 12V DC relay module also operates down to about 9V DC.
Separately, while shown triggered by the FT turnout's yellow wire, this "design" can be used for the more generic insulated-rail trigger where wheel axles straddle the outer rails of 3-rail O gauge track. There are some minor changes but the cost is the about the same; if there is interest start a different thread so not to lose focus on the original problem.
That's a big help as I was wondering if I would have to wire up something besides a relay to the lights and switch. Thanks for the help!
Roger
@Trainlover9943 posted:I'm trying to do a similar thing to you. I've heard people have had luck with these relays.
I'm going to try one of those! It looks like I could use this without having to wire up additional components .
@Roger Elliott posted:I'm going to try one of those! It looks like I could use this without having to wire up additional components .
Cool! I'm going to give this a shot too!
Are you sure you want a latching relay?
@Trainlover9943 posted:I'm trying to do a similar thing to you. I've heard people have had luck with these relays.
So I got one of those relays and I was not able to make it work.... Guess I'll be looking at Stan's solution instead....
@stan2004 posted:I think there is some incredulity of a 3-wire LED signal that requires AC voltage and does not work with DC voltage! But let's put aside the suspension-of-disbelief and re-state the application as simply driving a 3-wire 2-aspect incandescent signal from the Yellow-wire of an FT turnout. By incandescent signal, I mean something that requires a level of AC power that one would not expect the Yellow-wire to be able to directly light up. So now we're talking a relay...as fussing with a triac (an "AC" transistor) should not be one's first experience with DIY electronics. In my opinion of course.
There are many alternative but here's one I cobbled together with stuff in my parts stash. I do not have an FT switch to provide a proof-of-concept but I made some electrical measurements that convince me that it would work. The idea is to convert an inexpensive (less than $2 on eBay with free shipping from Asia) off-the-shelf 12V DC relay module to work with 12V AC.
But you have to surround the relay module with maybe 50 cents of "loose" components. The problem is you generally must buy 5, 10, 50, etc. of an inexpensive component which makes them no so inexpensive after all. I don't know the answer to the "minimum quantity" conundrum.
I did wire up the above circuit and it works over a wide AC voltage range - 10V to 18V - which I chose as what you might get from the Accessory AC transformer output up to O-gauge command-voltage.
As noted in my first diagram, this approach assumes that the black wire on the FT controller is the same as the AC-common (outer-rail). Again, I do not have an FT turnout but this can be confirmed fairly quickly with a meter.
For the technically curious, the trigger current into the 12V DC relay module was only 1.5 mA when driven by 5V DC. In fact, the relay module triggered with only 0.3 mA (with about 2.5V applied). So I'm fairly confident the FT turnout's yellow wire can supply this. Also, I confirmed this worked with a capacitor as small as only 100uF. This 12V DC relay module also operates down to about 9V DC.
Separately, while shown triggered by the FT turnout's yellow wire, this "design" can be used for the more generic insulated-rail trigger where wheel axles straddle the outer rails of 3-rail O gauge track. There are some minor changes but the cost is the about the same; if there is interest start a different thread so not to lose focus on the original problem.
Hi Stan,
SO If found a 12v DC power source and the signals lit up just fine.... I wonder now how that might change the circuit you created?
As long as the 12V DC source has its own wall-outlet connection like a wall-wart or an HO transformer output, then:
The key connection is between the DC- (or DC common) and AC common.
As shown, you can separately decide to power the signal with your original 12V AC or with the new 12V DC. If using DC, this assumes the signal's common (black wire) is the minus DC side...typically referred to as a common-cathode LED signal.
Unfortunately, with the relay module shown you still need the 5 cent diode to work with the yellow wire from the FT turnout. While I show a 1N4003 diode, it can be virtually any diode/rectifier. (Note to the technorati; the diode is needed because this relay module type uses an AC-input opto-isolator which would interpret the +5V and -5V signal from the yellow wire as the same!).
@stan2004 posted:As long as the 12V DC source has its own wall-outlet connection like a wall-wart or an HO transformer output, then:
The key connection is between the DC- (or DC common) and AC common.
As shown, you can separately decide to power the signal with your original 12V AC or with the new 12V DC. If using DC, this assumes the signal's common (black wire) is the minus DC side...typically referred to as a common-cathode LED signal.
Unfortunately, with the relay module shown you still need the 5 cent diode to work with the yellow wire from the FT turnout. While I show a 1N4003 diode, it can be virtually any diode/rectifier. (Note to the technorati; the diode is needed because this relay module type uses an AC-input opto-isolator which would interpret the +5V and -5V signal from the yellow wire as the same!).
Hi Stan I ordered one of the relays you used and as soon as I get it, I'll let you know how it works.
Thanks again
Roger Elliott
I'm getting notifications for this thread so post here when you get your goodies. I don't use FT turnouts but am curious to see what happens. I figure these relay modules with the built-in buffer transistors to drive the relay coil will have the eternal gratitude of the "yellow wire" electronics that surely wasn't designed to directly drive a relay coil. 
@stan2004 posted:As long as the 12V DC source has its own wall-outlet connection like a wall-wart or an HO transformer output, then:
The key connection is between the DC- (or DC common) and AC common.
As shown, you can separately decide to power the signal with your original 12V AC or with the new 12V DC. If using DC, this assumes the signal's common (black wire) is the minus DC side...typically referred to as a common-cathode LED signal.
Unfortunately, with the relay module shown you still need the 5 cent diode to work with the yellow wire from the FT turnout. While I show a 1N4003 diode, it can be virtually any diode/rectifier. (Note to the technorati; the diode is needed because this relay module type uses an AC-input opto-isolator which would interpret the +5V and -5V signal from the yellow wire as the same!).
Hi Stan,
Well, I got the relay chip and wired everything up as you show in your photo but it didn't work. One signal light remains lit but it doesn't switch when I throw the turnout switch. I tried moving wires around and got the same results. Any idea as to what I did wrong?
1, When you apply the 12V DC to the module, does the LED in the center of the module light up indicating power is applied?
2. Is the plug-on/press-on jumper on the left 2 (of 3) pins as indicated in my photo "jumper set to H"?
3. Does the relay ever "click" on at all? When the relay turns on, the 2nd LED near the lower left of module should turn on.
4. Is the "-" wire of the 12V DC supply tied to the black wire of the FT turnout (i.e., the outer-rail of the layout)?
@stan2004 posted:1, When you apply the 12V DC to the module, does the LED in the center of the module light up indicating power is applied?
2. Is the plug-on/press-on jumper on the left 2 (of 3) pins as indicated in my photo "jumper set to H"?
3. Does the relay ever "click" on at all? When the relay turns on, the 2nd LED near the lower left of module should turn on.
4. Is the "-" wire of the 12V DC supply tied to the black wire of the FT turnout (i.e., the outer-rail of the layout)?
Hi Stan
Happy Thanksgiving!
1. There is an LED that says PWR and it goes on when I plug in the 12V.
2.Yes, I set the jumper to high
3. No I have not been able to get the relay to click. There is another LED that is more in the middle of the board but I have not seen it light up.
4. I did run a wire from DC "-" to the AC GND of the AC power supply
I have attached a pic of how I wired it up. The diode is in place on the yellow wire and connects to the purple jumper tied into the "IN" connection. The Orange jumper goes to the AC GND from DC "-" The black jumper goes from DC "-" to COM on the relay
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