Nice job WMSR! ( not my videos)
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Just read about this myself. Happy Days ahead I hope.
Nice!!!
Wonder why there is a distinct difference in the exhausts in the first video, vs. the second video?
Could it be that she's operating in simple from a start at Helmstetters, and compound in the second video?
Ed
I doubt that the engine really needs the extra push from the diesel in the first video, so I wonder why it's there?
@RJR posted:I doubt that the engine really needs the extra push from the diesel in the first video, so I wonder why it's there?
That diesel is NOT pushing on the rear. The diesel on the rear is so it, the diesel, is in the lead returning back down the grade to Cumberland, since there is no place to turn or, "run around", the train for the return trip.
@Ed Mullan posted:Could it be that she's operating in simple from a start at Helmstetters, and compound in the second video?
Ed
No. In fact ALL compound articulated "start in simple" by way of the "simpling valve", otherwise the locomotive could not start a train. Note that in the upper video, starting out, there are four distinct exhausts per revolution of the front engine (the big low pressure cylinders), while in the second video (at a higher speed), it almost sounds like one exhaust "note" is missing.
If you listen carefully on the first video, most of the diesel noise is coming from the power car just in front of the F-40. A guess is the F-40 was there for the dynamic brakes going back downhill.
Figure they are learning on the job when it comes to transition from simple to compound or even just deciding if the valves are working correctly.
Looking forward to seeing this brute working hard first hand. Spent a lot of time looking her over when she was at the museum some years ago.
So 1309 does not fit on the Frostburg turntable?
@bbunge posted:If you listen carefully on the first video, most of the diesel noise is coming from the power car just in front of the F-40. A guess is the F-40 was there for the dynamic brakes going back downhill.
Figure they are learning on the job when it comes to transition from simple to compound or even just deciding if the valves are working correctly.
Remember that there is no "manual control" of changing from simple to compound. I believe the N&W Y6 class compound articulated steam locomotives were the only ones that were set-up so that the Engineer could manually introduce "live superheated steam" into the low pressure cylinders, for long sustained low speed pulls.
Looking forward to seeing this brute working hard first hand. Spent a lot of time looking her over when she was at the museum some years ago.
@RJR posted:So 1309 does not fit on the Frostburg turntable?
Yes, it WILL fit on the Frostburg turntable. However, there are issues with the track curvature and grade approach to the turntable, that may still need to be addressed. Besides, the "Santa Special" trains don't operate all that far anyway, thus this first test run didn't operate all the way to Frostburg.
Thanks.
@Hot Water posted:No. In fact ALL compound articulated "start in simple" by way of the "sampling valve", otherwise the locomotive could not start a train. Note that in the upper video, starting out, there are four distinct exhausts per revolution of the front engine (the big low pressure cylinders), while in the second video (at a higher speed), it almost sounds like one exhaust "note" is missing.
@Hot Water posted:Remember that there is no "manual control" of changing from simple to compound. I believe the N&W Y6 class compound articulated steam locomotives were the only ones that were set-up so that the Engineer could manually introduce "live superheated steam" into the low pressure cylinders, for long sustained low speed pulls.
HW,
You are off base again. Read the following: "Compound Articulated Locomotives".
Engineers that I have worked noted that it wasn't necessary to "simple" an engine to start a train. This would be especially true when doing light switching.
As for the 1309 in the video, it seems to me that in the second video the train is drifting more so than pulling. My question is, why so much smoke? Even when the train stops, there is a significant amount of smoke.
@Big Jim posted:HW,
You are off base again. Read the following: "Compound Articulated Locomotives".Engineers that I have worked noted that it wasn't necessary to "simple" an engine to start a train. This would be especially true when doing light switching.
The "simpling valve" I referred to is NOT in the cab, nor under control by the Engineer (the N&W Y6 Class locomotives had an additional valve arrangement for the Engineer), it is built into the steam input supply to the rear, high pressure cylinders. Thus, when starting, a small amount of live steam is sent to the front, low pressure cylinders in order to provide some "starting steam", since the rear high pressure cylinders have not yet exhausted any steam forward to the low pressure cylinders.
As for the 1309 in the video, it seems to me that in the second video the train is drifting more so than pulling. My question is, why so much smoke?
They are still learning how to properly fire the 1309, especially since there hasn't been a steam locomotive on the WMSR for some 3 or more years. Also not, that the over-fire jet/canisters have not yet been re-installed.
Even when the train stops, there is a significant amount of smoke.
@Hot Water posted:The "simpling valve" I referred to is NOT in the cab, nor under control by the Engineer
You didn't read did you?
There is a "simpling valve" in the cab under direct control of the engineer. Sometimes it is labeled a "Starting Valve", sometimes it is called an "Emergency Valve". Whatever it is called, it is under the control of the engineer.
The valves that you are refering to are 1.) the "Reducing Valve". It reduces high pressure steam to a lower pressure steam in order to admit it to the large low pressure cylinders. And, 2.) the intercepting valve. This is the valve that closes off the high pressure exhaust chamber from the low pressure receiver pipe. This is the valve that it under the control of the engineer if he so desires.
The article to which Big Jim referred is certainly interesting. I had never heard of an articulated boiler (must have been a maintenance headache), nor a cross compound 2-cylinder loco. Did some research on the latter: fascinating variety
In the second video, she is not drifting. That's uphill there, she's just showing what a powerhouse she is and is in compound, of course.
I will concede that there is lots of smoke, but the weather was quite snippy then, and lots of steam is apparent mixed in her exhaust.
Ed
Wow that’s neat.
C&O had handsome looking power. Even with all the cross pumps and the like on the door of the smokebox.
Beautiful sight to see, cant wait to see her in person.
Does the WMSR have any open cars where you can smell the smoke, get cinders in your hair, hear the chuff, etc, etc. Thinking of doing a trip this coming summer. Ride the train up and ride bicycles back if that's still an option?
I do think that they have added an open car. As of now the bicycle option is not happening, but that does not mean it won't be this summer.
Ed
The insurance industry has pretty well killed the open car. I doubt they will have one. Open window maybe, but not an entirely open car.
@Rich Melvin posted:The insurance industry has pretty well killed the open car. I doubt they will have one. Open window maybe, but not an entirely open car.
Sadly it is what it is. How about passenger cars that have opening windows? WMSR have any?
@superwarp1 posted:Sadly it is what it is. How about passenger cars that have opening windows? WMSR have any?
Might get a better answer by contacting them, the WMSR, directly.
If there is no open car and car windows are sealed, what is the difference between riding behind a diesel or steam, other than you see the steamer occasionally on a curve, but really don't catch all the sounds?
Riding the Cumbres & Toltec and the Durango & Silverton, the noise and smell was a large portion of the enjoyment
Western Maryland has published their schedule for 2022: Cumberland Train Schedule | WMSR
Steam / #1309 runs start 6 May and end 30 Oct, primarily on weekends.
@superwarp1 posted:Does the WMSR have any open cars where you can smell the smoke, get cinders in your hair, hear the chuff, etc, etc.
Be careful what you wish for. My first, and so far only, ride on a Steam Train, in a car with open windows, resulted in a cinder in my eye, and a corneal burn. Put a damper on an entire vacation wearing an eye patch.
On one of my first dates with a lovely young damsel, I invited her for a steam train ride in open car. Wanting to look good, she wore her new white jacket. She learned the hard way about cinders and never did that again, over the almost 60 years we've been married.
@superwarp1 posted:Does the WMSR have any open cars where you can smell the smoke, get cinders in your hair, hear the chuff, etc, etc. Thinking of doing a trip this coming summer. Ride the train up and ride bicycles back if that's still an option?
@Rich Melvin posted:The insurance industry has pretty well killed the open car. I doubt they will have one. Open window maybe, but not an entirely open car.
My wife and I rode "open vestibule" on the WMSR once! However, this was before our daughters were born, so it was over 30 years ago. We drove all the way there thinking there would be plenty of room. Dumb! We should have called ahead. No Internet then. They sold us two "standing room only" tickets on the vestibule of one of the closed cars. Talk about cinders, Gary!! I didn't take any photographs, keeping my Canon SLR under cover best I could. I assume the insurance company would frown on that now.
Back to the 1309, I'm impressed the WMSR got the engine back under steam. I read many who thought they wouldn't have the money and resources to do it. We hope to ride next year. And yes, we will get tickets in advance! 
@Mark V. Spadaro posted:Be careful what you wish for. My first, and so far only, ride on a Steam Train, in a car with open windows, resulted in a cinder in my eye, and a corneal burn. Put a damper on an entire vacation wearing an eye patch.
I will thus assume that you were NOT wearing safety glasses/goggles, as recommended?
@Ed Mullan posted:Got away from the house last August, August the 15th to be exact and saw this. I'll ride it as soon as I get a chance, but will be wearing the correct clothing!
Ed
This is WMSR’s new “open air coach.” I’m glad they added it. I spent most of my time hanging out in the “Man O’ War” at the WMSR and when it was used during the old NS Steam Program. WMSR’s previous management traded “Man O’ War” to the TVRM for some RDC’s which they don’t appear to have a plan for at the moment. TVRM restored it to its Central of Georgia appearance.
Congratulations to the team that put 1309 back on the rails! 1309 is a magnificent monster, and I hope it appears in affordable 3-rail O-gauge soon. Never in my lifetime did I think I would see so many big articulated monsters running the rails, the Challenger, the S&W 1218, the UP Big Boy & the WM 1309.. I like them all, but my favorite is the N&W 1218. Do you think my 79-year old eyes may see a Yellowstone? Perhaps may be the N&W Y6A will run again? After seeing the Big Boy & the 1309 run again, I will never say never to any steam engine running again, even a Dreyfus J3 Streamlined.
"affordable O gauge" is a paradox.
I’m admittedly no steam expert, but in the videos I’ve seen, there seems to be a lot of steam leakage at the rod and valve packings. The exhaust also doesn’t sound quite right to me but then I’m not sure what a compound is “supposed” to sound like, either. It sounds like one loud exhaust followed by three weaker ones, if that makes sense?
Good to know there is an open air car at the WMSR. I love to smell the smoke, and hear the sounds.
The first time I rode behind WM 734 I was in an open air car on a warm fall day. There were lots of cinders flying, and I wasn’t wearing a hat. After the ride, I was picking cinders out of my hair for a week.
I will ride in the open car when ride behind 1309, with a hat.
Lionel should get started in making us a Legacy scale sized WM 1309.
After I ride behind the real ones, I always want one on my layout.
@RJR posted:"affordable O gauge" is a paradox.
For a model of something as complicated as WM 1309? Definitely.
Mike
@mlavender480 posted:I’m admittedly no steam expert, but in the videos I’ve seen, there seems to be a lot of steam leakage at the rod and valve packings. The exhaust also doesn’t sound quite right to me but then I’m not sure what a compound is “supposed” to sound like, either. It sounds like one loud exhaust followed by three weaker ones, if that makes sense?
I have Link's recordings of N&W Y classes working in both simple and compound. In simple they sound much like any simple articulated locomotive, with 4 exhaust beats per engine, or 8 total exhausts for the locomotive. Since there is no mechanical connection between the two engines, the exhaust beats can vary randomly as the two engines go in and out of sync.
In compound mode, only the low pressure cylinders exhaust through the stack so the engine sounds like a regular 2 cylinder engine, with 4 total exhaust beats.
It sounds to me that the 1309 is not properly timed as the four exhausts when running in compound should be equally loud and equidistant in time from each other. That was commonly referred to as the engine being "in square".
Valve timing is an art and they may still be learning how to set up this particular machine.
