Y3's Shipping

Jon,

 

I can send you my MRC 6000 if you like.

 

Rusty

Thanks, Jon!

 

I'm wondering if an interim solution for me might be to run an extra wire under or next to the track on my layout, and connect the TMCC output to it, thus having an antenna next to the track. Then run the Y3 on my DCC track, controlling it with my TMCC throttle?

 

I'm guessing that since the Y3 boards will work on DCC with only a software change, the loco could be powered by the DCC track power, while accepting the TMCC radio signal from the separate antenna wire.

 

I actually tested this accidentally a few years ago on our club layout. We have two parallel loops. The inside one was running DCC, the outside TMCC. I accidentally put the Big Boy on the inner loop, and it seemed to take TMCC commands and run fine. I didn't make a long term test for fear of damaging the Big Boy electronics.

 

If this would work for the AF TMCC and Legacy locos already shipped, ie the Mikado, Pacific, Big Boy, Challenger and U33, it would be a great way to add TMCC and those locos to my DCC layout.

 

Bill

Hi Bill,

 

The DCC track can supply power to the newer electronics - to a point.  For Example, the electro-couplers will get stuck on when fired and burn up.  Although I believe the electronics will not be harmed by DCC power - I would be cautious about older electronics in locos like the Mikado on DCC.

 

I can state the 2nd generation U33, Y3, SD70, and going forward, that DCC (or DC) power will not harm the electronics.  If the electronics has the software to allow DDC or DC operation, then additional functionality would be present.

Thanks, Jon, That's great news!

 

Bill

I put a relatively small filter on my 30B. A 1000 uf electrolytic and a 110 ohm 5 watt resistor in parallel with the DC terminals on the bridge (thus before the direction switch. The reason for the resistor was to cut the no load voltage a bit. Without the filter, max voltage was 15VDC on my multimeter. Just adding the capacitor increased the max voltage with no load to 20VDC. Adding the 110 ohm resistor cut the no load voltage to 18V, which made me feel better.

 

With that setup, the loco performs great! Direction changes are flawless. The only odd thing I noticed is that the rear headlight is on in forward, off in reverse!

 

Bill

Thanks for the update Bill, very cool.

 

Rusty mentioned the backup light reversal too, drat.  I guess I am glad we did not officially support DC on this product!  I will try and solve the lighting along with the other minor issues on the next "S" loco.

Huuummmm... What will the next S loco be??? Gotta try... Ben

I tested the DCC/TMCC combo today. Connected the TMCC base to one rail of the track as usual, but powered the track from my Lenz DCC command station. Everything ran as expected. The loco lights and sound fired up, and the loco ran normally, controlled by the TMCC controller. The only issues I could find were smoke and coupler. The smoke unit was running, I could hear the fan. But the heater either wasn't on or was on too low to generate visible smoke. The rear coupler would not open. I got the normal clank from the speaker, but no buzz from the solenoid.

 

My TMCC power supply puts 15.5 volts on the track, the DCC power supply puts 14.7 V.

 

I then added a DCC locomotive to the track, and was able to run and control both locos at the same time on the same track, the Y3 with the TMCC controller, and an S helper F7 with QSI DCC decoder using the Lenz throttle.

 

Dynamite!

Wow.

 

I think that an engine that costs a grand (or close to it) shouldn't have "issues",either major or minor, and that making the consumer hope "the next "S" loco" won't have these problems is inexcusable. One would think that Lionel has been in the business long enough to know better. 

 

Mark in Oregon

To be fair, it is a legacy featured locomotive, and functions as advertised with legacy. The use of DCC with this Y3 I think is nothing more than a "pleasant surprise". DCC comparability, good or bad, was not advertised in the catalog. Now if the new SD70ACe does not perform as it is advertised with DCC, there is cause for complaint. Just my thoughts Ben

Points well taken, Ben.

 

Mark in Oregon

I stumbled into this forum. I had my hands on a Y-3 today and knew I would have problems test running it. I have an old 30B that I use at Christmas time for my flyer, DCC, and a not too good MRC DC power pack.

 

I know nothing about the TMCC so I don't have any of it. I'm from the DC S Scale world, 40 years of S Scale, you know, skinny wheels and tiny couplers.

 

I did manage to get the locomotive to run back and forth on my test track using the 30B. Now I am hearing that this Y-3 will run on DCC????? Out of the box?????

 

Rusty Rustermier

 

I knew something was going on

Rusty,

 

Welcome to the "the dark side" of the OGR Forum!  Always nice to have new members.

 

Please reread Bill clark's posting.  The Y3 will run using a DCC supply as a power source, but is not DCC compatible, meaning you can't use your DCC throttle to run the locomotive,  at least not yet.  Bill was still using a TMCC controller to actually operate the locomotive.

 

As to DC operation, as long as you have a pure DC signal and not a pulsed one, the Y3 will run fine, with the exception of the backup light being on in forward.  My old MRC Controlmaster X runs the Y3 just fine, whereas the newer MRC 6000 pack wouldn't.

 

Jon from Lionel is aware of these issues and is looking into them.

 

Rusty the Other.

  Just the fact that I could run it on a decent DC supply is a game changer! I have not actually seen the Challenger. I will some how get my grubby hands on one though.

  The Y-3 is ideal for conversion to scale wheels. One, or more, probably many, will get converted to scale wheels. If the Challenger is any thing like the Y-3, then it will also get converted to scale.

  This Y-3 is nothing like the old AF. The older AF was fine. I've given every nephew at least one, just to get them started in the hobby. 

 

Rusty Rustermier

  Just the fact that I could run it on a decent DC supply is a game changer! I have not actually seen the Challenger. I will some how get my grubby hands on one though.

  The Y-3 is ideal for conversion to scale wheels. One, or more, probably many, will get converted to scale wheels. If the Challenger is any thing like the Y-3, then it will also get converted to scale.

  This Y-3 is nothing like the old AF. The older AF was fine. I've given every nephew at least one, just to get them started in the hobby. 

 

Rusty Rustermier

 

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Rusty,

 

What is your "decent" DC power supply?

 

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

I'm also into ham radio, CW, or the dit-dah-dit stuff. I have several flatline DC power supplies. The transformer kind, not the switching kind, and a good rheostat. A word of caution, these DC power supplies  are over a $100 and are heavy! 

 

Rusty Rustermier

Actually, the Y3 is better than the Challenger.  The Challenger had some short-cuts taken, nothing major or a show stopper. It's still a very nice chooch.

 

 

But, as is, I don't think the Challenger will operate on straight DC, haven't tried it though.  Jon could speak to this.  A lot of movement happened on the DC/DCC front over the past year.

 

Rusty

From various Y3 threads on this forum:

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 I would caution you to use a newer transformer w a fast acting circuit breaker if you plan on running the Y-3 for any amount of time. If you have a derailment , that old transformer can possibly cause damage to the electronics on board that lokie.

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The Y3a has a new attribute with which if there is a disturbance in power delivery associated with the vagaries of track work, dirt, etc. the engine goes into ‘sleep mode’

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 $880.00 plus and this thing takes a nap???

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The only odd thing I noticed is that the rear headlight is on in forward, off in reverse!

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My Y3 failed on the test track.  It ran in fine reverse, but when placed in forward, it wouldn't move and smoke came from the locomotive where smoke shouldn't come from.  The LHS owner said it's the same thing occurred to a Santa Fe Y3 he ordered for store stock. 

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So that's 2 failures out of 5 locomotives, not a good average.

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 My only operational issue was the front pilot shorting on two of my American S Gauge turnouts.

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Odyssey II… orange module… TCMM…  Legacy v1.51… What’s next and will it be compatible with itself???

 

If I have this thing gutted – get rid of all the boards – and run it on DC, what would I be missing? 

 

If I leave the boards and run it on filtered DC, what would I gain?

 

It seems leaving the boards and using a 30B for power would probably result in fried boards…  Jon, where are you on this?  I test turnouts and derailments happen as a course of business.

 

It would be economically unrealistic to think I could convert my layout and all my ACG, AM & SHS engines to some Lionel scheme.  Besides, that could preclude the offerings from MTH. 

 

It used to be you could buy an engine, expect it to work right out of the box, take it home and run it.  I wonder how much the electronics tacked onto the price…

 

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

..... I wonder how much the electronics tacked onto the price…

 

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

 

 

You have to realize "economy of scale" and a few other things, but gauging by Lionel's O gauge offerings, which in some models are offered with Legacy as an option, the addition of the sparky stuff adds about $150 to the price of the item. At least in their O gauge line.

 

I don't know how many new items I would purchase if the electronics were optional, but it's a factor.  I bought a U33C, and like it, but would have preferred to have purchased it without Legacy since I will NOT ever purchase the Lionel control system (which adds even more cost to the item).  Yeah, I know, amortize it over the number of locomotives with Legacy, etc., etc.  However, it's the only locomotive I have with Legacy, and since my retirement, I am very careful with my train purchases.

 

Jerry

Freezing in Wayne, MI