York Interviews for Lionel and MTH About S Gauge products

Hey Bill, I guess this would be a chance to possibly see a future for the SD-40 they tried producing back in 98. I feel like it would do VERY well in today's S scale market. So...my question...

Does anyone at lionel ever see bringing back the idea of the extemely popular SD-40 or 45 series locomotive?

 Does anyone at MTH ever foresee introducing an SD-40 or 45 locomotive?

That's just one of many I would like to know the answer on, but that's the one most important to me at the moment. Thanks a lot Bill!

                                            Adam

I would like to know what their plans are for future S gauge Legacy products.

Thanks Tom and Adam.

1. Any chance of a box car in the Black Lehigh New England scheme?

2.  Any chance  they will reproduce the exploding boxcar?

LittleTommy

Any of change of FlyerChief Reading Steam?  Especially T1?  Notworthy because of the refitting of 2100 and 2102 to service.

Do you mean "Any Chance" Francine?

Are there any plans to produce the N&W 611 J engine and passenger cars in S?

Dean

Bill,

In light of ever increasing production costs in China (example: 2016 catalogue AF Diesels) and quality concerns, is the possibility of bringing any production back to the US being considered, perhaps with a domestic contract manufacturing/assembly firm?

Thanks for your time and efforts!

Mike

Q:  Is there a chance of manufacturing modern rolling stock (cars built after 1990) to run with the ES44AC and SD70ACE locos from AF?

Mike - I can tell you already that production won't be coming back from China.  My conversations with them is that the technology and ability to build them is all overseas.

Martin - I asked both firms that last year and I will try it again.

Q: Any chance of reproducing the All Aboard Panel layouts using the new Fastrack? 

Q: Any chance of reproducing the All Aboard Panel layouts using the new Fastrack? 

Any 21st Century Modern Rolling Stock in the pipeline?

Any larger radius track?

Regards,

Swafford

For MTH and Lionel.

Will we see a new blue Legacy or Premier Conrail diesel units? 

Will we see a Vision Line or Premier 4-8-2 L3 NYC Mohawk? Elephant ears should be removable. 

Will we see a matching caboose for the VisionLine and Premier NYC L3 Mohawk.

Kevin 

Broken record time;

Lionel 

• Are we going to see Legacy stay in the long run for furture products, is there the possibility for new tooling in locomotives? And I would like to also suggest a SD40 for a newly tooled item. 
• How about a future run of challengers with Legacy and whistle steam.  
• We NEED more modern newly tooled fright cars. Can Lionel recatalog the 57' reefers and see if projection forecasts still suck? Emphasize that the wheels and trucks are not defective. 
• Can we get a vision line type fright car sounds (like the o gauge PFE cars) in the cylindrical hopper?  
• Can we get the mikado and pacific to return in Legacy? 
• Can we get a S gauge IR track piece for all the locomotives that have been equipped to the IR device?  

MTH

• What fright cars will be in the new catalog? 
• Will there be a possibility of a more diverse range of switch radii?
• Has the S gauge line sales performed as well as MTH had hoped. 

Ben

"We NEED more modern newly tooled fright cars."

For me, one zombie boxcar was enough. I agree that modern cars would be a great addition--well cars for stacked containers and automobile carriers, although both would have problems with tight radii. Lionel has a coupler system that gets around the problem of long cars and they do shorten them from accurate dimensions in order to get them to run, but that might expose them to criticism they have heard so often.

I would like to ask them if they could develop a single freight truck that can easily be altered to swap out high-rail wheelsets with scale wheelsets so that scalers don't have to buy an entire truck to make the switch. If Lionel could use the same or similar trucks on different freight cars--with the right height, of course--the effort would pay off in lower costs for both Lionel and customers. If the cylindrical hoppers were made that way--but prototypically lower--scale customers could have bought scale wheelsets, adjusted them to the standards they prefer, and not have to toss otherwise beautiful trucks.

A number of people have mentioned the extremely popular SD40-2. That would be a locomotive that could be issued a number of times in multiple numbers/road names because it was so common. A FlyerChief with some nice detailing could hit a lower price point. A "build-to-order" Legacy version with superior detailing such as that on the SD70 and ES44 could use the same body and offer a higher price point/higher margin with less risk of too much inventory. The BTO model might work better if Lionel would make at least one announcement that they need at least X number of pre-orders to go ahead after a few months of watching initial orders. That might convince fence-sitters to put orders into their local hobby shops. Lionel, on the other hand, would have to make a commitment to actually build to order. The mechanical reefer fiasco was the best way to scare away customers Lionel prefers to pre-order. That was another fright car of another sort for all who wanted to buy that reefer.

Do they expect to do another run of the non Polar express Berkshires in the future? 

Were sales what they expected?

Any chance of a flyer chief Hudson? 

NotInWI posted:

Broken record time;

Lionel 

• We NEED more modern newly tooled fright cars. Can Lionel recatalog the 57' reefers and see if projection forecasts still suck? Emphasize that the wheels and trucks are not defective. 

 

Ben

57' reefers are not modern.  Modern reefers start at 64' long and go up from there.  Wanting is 57' reefers is fine, but they would not be appropriate run behind the es44ac or sd70ace.

Probably work good with the SD40-2s, which I wholeheartedly support.

Confirm 4 1/2" , 1 3/4" , 1 3/8 " long Fastrack straight track. Also shipping date.

I think it is interesting that many of you want modern freight cars and no small or large manufacturer has built any.  This includes SHS, American Models or even Des Plains Hobbies in S.  Lionel's only attempt was the Hopper and we know that they have tons of leftover stock.  This must be telling us something.  

Last year I mentioned modern freight cars to both Lionel and MTH when I interviewed them and there was not what I would call a strong answer for they would.  Does this tell us that most people really pattern their layout for the mid 50's or they just run Flyer as it is produced so that there isn't enough of a market to support tooling costs?     

Roundhouse Bill posted:

I think it is interesting that many of you want modern freight cars and no small or large manufacturer has built any.  This includes SHS, American Models or even Des Plains Hobbies in S.  Lionel's only attempt was the Hopper and we know that they have tons of leftover stock.  This must be telling us something.  

Last year I mentioned modern freight cars to both Lionel and MTH when I interviewed them and there was not what I would call a strong answer for they would.  Does this tell us that most people really pattern their layout for the mid 50's or they just run Flyer as it is produced so that there isn't enough of a market to support tooling costs?     

Most of the DesPlaines cars are far more "modern" than the Lionel ACF cylindrical hopper.  The car Lionel modeled hails from the early 1960's and was replaced by ACF with the Centerflow (the DesPlaines car) in 1964. 

The DesPlaines Evans insulated boxcar and FMC single door and double door boxcars (and AM's Railbox cars) all hail from the 1970's.

Then there's AM's spine cars and DesPlaines Husky Stacks and Bathtub gondolas from the late 70's early 80's.

The reason Lionel has a ton of cylindrical hoppers left in stock is not because they're "too modern."

Rusty

Rusty - I don't ever see the Des Plaines Hobbies cars for sale at any big shows for new or resale.  They did have a booth at S Feast.  

Again, is their really much of a market for current era freight cars?

My entire layout is modern. I think what lionel isn't realizing is that as the younger crowd comes into the market, they are gonna (for the most part) want what they grew up around. I'm speaking for myself and a few others that I personally know though. 

As Rusty stated about the reason why there's so much inventory of those covered hoppers, plus what many others think, that cylindrical hopper wasn't really at ALL what the guys wanted for a covered hopper. I would have much perfered the ACF that I see 80% more of rolling down the tracks today compared to that covered hopper Lionel made and said it was "modern".

Lionel should take a poll on websites like these with a "modern" and "non-modern" catergory on products they are considering realeasing. To get a feel of the market. These sites are a tremendous source of insite and info. 

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Rusty - I don't ever see the Des Plaines Hobbies cars for sale at any big shows for new or resale.  They did have a booth at S Feast.  

Again, is their really much of a market for current era freight cars?

Bill, I was going to stay out of this thread until the inaccurate statement about "I think it is interesting that many of you want modern freight cars and no small or large manufacturer has built any.  This includes SHS, American Models or even Des Plains Hobbies in S." 

The only portion of that statement that's true is SHS.  Clearly, both AM and DPH have cars that are more modern than Lionel's Flyer cylindrical hopper.

I'll admit, the DesPlaines cars aren't exactly flying off the shelf at the store and I don't know what Ron's terms are for sale to other dealers.  You'd have to talk to Ron Sebastian about that. 

BTW, he's developing a modern Thrall gondola kit, we'll have to wait and see how that develops. Test shot shown.  I have no further information and it's not my photo.

As far as the secondary market, maybe, just maybe, those that have the cars are happy with them and don't want to resell them.  They are currently the only "modern" game in town, even though the prototypes are pretty long in the tooth by now.

But face it, SD70's and ES44's look pretty ridiculous pulling 1930's-1950's freight cars.  At least the AM and DPH car stand a better chance:

Rusty

I think that the Des planes hobbies 48ft well cars were unsuccessful Because they are an unsuccessful prototype from an unpopular era (1989-1994ish).  Since then they many have been cut down to 40 foot Wells.  Stack Trains from that era were five-well articulates anyways, with a few 48ft husky stacks.  

I wouldn't put those cars behind my sd70ace if you give them to me for free.  The 53ft Desplanes   Containers are also very outdated 

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Lionel's only attempt (to build a modern freight car) was the Hopper and we know that they have tons of leftover stock.  This must be telling us something. 

I think it tells us that scale modelers want:

• wheels sets aligned correctly
• rolling stock to sit prototypically above the rails

They don't want:

• enormous high-rail couplers
• fantasy paint schemes based on one-off locomotives painted in legacy schemes

The original sets required scale customers to throw out expensive but beautifully made trucks and couplers from an already expensive car if they wanted them to look and work right. Most customers, however, are high-rail customers; and for the majority of S gauge buyers, the cars did not work for most of them when trying to go through a switch. Lionel did make a switch to high-rail wheels on the next go-round, but the cars still sat too high. There was no effort to fix the problems for initial buyers or even offer an option to offer low-cost replacement trucks for both scale or high-rail customers for the initial run. That initial run is still sitting on shelves along with the "fixed" cars. Customers would have to refer to a brochure to determine the "good" from the "bad." I don't think modernity has anything to do with customers' reluctance to buy the cylindrical hoppers, but putting the blame on a fickle market must offer Lionel product managers an excuse to explain away multiple mistakes of their own.

Rusty:  I am amused with the picture of the KCS ES44 going by a building with 1950 era automobiles.  I guess that shows that they don't produce recent automobiles for layouts either.  Unless that building is an automobile museum. 

I admit I am not a scale modeler so I only have Gilbert or Lionel Flyer freight cars.  Maybe a few American Models cabooses to go with their engines, but not many.  I too wish their were more modern freight cars but they would have to corner my Gilbert track on my layout.

I posed this question about modern freight cars to more ammunition when I interview Lionel and MTH.  People were making simple requests and I am hoping to hear more about their needs in a broader way.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

Rusty:  I am amused with the picture of the KCS ES44 going by a building with 1950 era automobiles.  I guess that shows that they don't produce recent automobiles for layouts either.  Unless that building is an automobile museum. 

I admit I am not a scale modeler so I only have Gilbert or Lionel Flyer freight cars.  Maybe a few American Models cabooses to go with their engines, but not many.  I too wish their were more modern freight cars but they would have to corner my Gilbert track on my layout.

I posed this question about modern freight cars to more ammunition when I interview Lionel and MTH.  People were making simple requests and I am hoping to hear more about their needs in a broader way.

Glad I can provide amusement.  You neglected to mention all those other old-timey freight cars in the photo.  Must be running smack-dab through the middle of a railroad museum.

I normally model stuff from the mid 50's to early 60's, but every now and then I like to drag out the more modern stuff.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time or money to redo everything for the occasional running of the moderns.  I also drag out my GG1 and place it in my mid-Kansas setting every now and then...

Rusty

I would like Lionel to offer the following:

ALCO PA with Legacy in another road name.  I would prefer Baltimore and Ohio or Missouri Pacific.  However I would buy any road name they offer.

R23 ½” Fastrack curve.

Fastrack rail connectors for custom lengths of track.

Speeder or trolley.

Unscented smoke fluid or some pleasant scent.

I would like to know when will the Fastrack uncoupler be available?

Thanks,

John.

Since you asked some quick questions, my top 10 are as follows:

1) Are there any remaining Gilbert tooling that they have not used yet that can still be revived? (i.e. The Franklin Set, Animated Passenger station)

2) Will they expand the Fastrak system to include trestles, Graded Crossing (even without the grates) and IR signals?

3) Will they consider reissuing Gilbert Accessories such as the Cattle loader this time with Sounds to make it more appealing? (Shown in earlier catalog but cancelled due to price and lack of orders)

4) Since they have the loading car, will they consider making the operating Milk car and platform?

5) Will they look at sales in all other scales and consider making what sells well in those for S? (For example a GS4 in Southern Pacific Daylight colors.)

6) Since Lionel is hesitating about modern freight, any chance they might survey us and give us a choice of 4 modern cars and ask us which one we would most be willing to buy to enhance their chance of a good sell out?

7) With so many Northern Pacific Passenger cars, any chance they would make a Legacy Alco powered A and Powered B set of engines so we can pull all the cars they issued?  (Worded differently... Can we get a Legacy powered B unit please?)

8) Would Lionel consider making an engine in both Legacy and Lionel Chief formats at the same time as a Built to order?  (This way those who invested and prefer Legacy can buy that version for more money and features and the Lionel Chief customers can buy the lower priced item they prefer)

9) Any chance of making a Thomas the Tank engine in "S" scale with sounds and smoke to help compete with Bachman and bring new people to Flyer?

10) Any chance of converting non scale specific O gauge operating accessories to work with "S" scale such as the Culvert loader?

I am now finishing my questions for the interviews and a number of them you guys have posed for Lionel have been incorporated.  However I am short of questions for MTH.  

Please send me additional questions for MTH and of course Lionel if they haven't already be suggested here.

Thanks so much.

Bill 

If they show up between now and then, this MTH question will be moot.  If not:

When can we expect the F3's?  The TOFC cars?

Rusty

How about asking about Reading Steam?  Not much hope for the near term, they'll probably use existing molds.

Lionel: Do you have any plans or intentions of making newly tooled S scale products in the future? You started down the path and then you stopped. Please be clear about the direction of Lionel American Flyer going forward. Lastly, will we see the Mikados and Pacifics re-released with Legacy?

MTH: Are you currently developing any newly tooled products while working on the SHS re-releases? Or will you simply be re-releasing ex-SHS products for the foreseeable future? What will you do if DCS/Proto 3.0 is not adopted well by the S community?

I'm pretty sure I know the answers to these questions, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Well, I am just a little more than a week from my interviews and I just got word that Matt Ashba of Lionel will not be the person I talk with.   Here is part of what Matt sent me.

"With changes in responsibilities here at Lionel, a good portion of the American Flyer line is now in the sturdy hands of Ryan Kunkle, who is also in charge of Lionel’s Scale O Gauge locomotives and rolling stock."

Do any of you guys out there know Ryan or what his history is?

Thanks

Bill I do not know Ryan. To me the move sounds positive for us. Combining the Scale O line and S Scale under common leadership allows one team to focus on some common solutions. Both product families are detailed models, accurately proportioned, have the greatest feature content, are relatively low volume and have a price point in the upper quartile of the market. Just my view FWIW.

I have never met Ryan, but the change does not hit me as a bad thing.  I have heard Ryan speak a few times about his projects on Notch6.  The guy seems to know his business.  

Ben

Musical chairs at Lionel, what a surprise.

Well, hopefully Ryan's appointment will avoid another fiasco like the cylindrical hopper trucks and cancellation of the 57' mechanical reefers. 

Lionel can do a good job with scalified Flyer, the Y3's, SD70's and ES44's (even the FlyerChief Berkshires) attest to that.  All the Flyer line needs is consistent direction and an admission that the S market doesn't react the same way as the O market.

Rusty