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This has been one of the best "Yorks" ever for me!  Many of us come here to look for that one elusive item to round out the collection, others come to see all the latest and greatest stuff from the contemporary manufacturing and importing entities, but I come here first and foremost to see and interact with the wonderful friends I've made in the hobby over the past 14 years of being back in the favorite pastime of my youth!  Once again, York did not disappoint!

 

Although overall meet attendance appeared to be down from the peaks of years past, the hard core (or should it be "corps"?) represented by OGR Forumites seemed to be here in a profusion that perhaps lacked the numbers of previous Yorks, but made up for it in warmth and enthusiasm.  OGR Forum's "Thursdays at Fridays" was the best ever.  Pat Marinai talked himself hoarse as he schmoozed with long lost train pals from all over the country.  Lou "Pappy" Granato and his bride, Nancy, were there for the first time in three years.  They reported that our former "Assistant Web Master" from the early days of the Forum and their grandson, Lou III, (PRSLou) is doing well and working as a website designer/engineer.  A few of you for unknown reasons were conspicuous by your absence and missed, but those who were in attendance remembered you all with the hope that we will see you in the fall.

 

I have to say that we all felt the emotional hole left by the untimely departures and aching absense from our earthly midst of two long term and beloved Forumites, Owen Sturm, and Kim Smith.  Sitting with old friends Peter Gentieu and Peter Condro at the well-attended Forum Grandstand Meeting yesterday afternoon, I recalled that the last time I saw either Kim or Owen alive was at that same meeting last Fall.  It goes without saying that all who were privileged to know either or both of these two wonderful human beings will keep them alive in our personal and corporate memories well into the distant future.

 

Thursdays at Fridays was a wonderful reunion of old friends renewing bonds that go back more than a decade that this Forum has been in existence.  Of course the Forum has been an invaluable resource for hobby technique and information sharing, but more importantly, it has been the place where so many lifelong friendships have been started!  To all of those hobby journal stalwarts from the staff of OGR who envisioned and created this Forum back in the last century, thank you from all of us who owe you so much!

 

The Forum Grandstand reunion and meeting yesterday was the best ever.  Ed Boyle persevered as the MC despite the occasional cat calls from a "tough crowd".  Many luminaries of the manufacturing and importing industry that so faithfully and dependably support the Forum and the hobby we all love, held forth with informative reports and some introductions of beautiful new products and useful services.  The two leading comedians of past Forum conclaves were both on a roll yesterday.  The entertainment provided by friendly and good natured "inside baseball" jabs was appreciatively received by the crowd of Forumites.  Andy Edelman of MTH won us over with his self-deprecating humor and a few zingers directed at the competition.  Andy's presentation of "Blue Comet" awards to various hobbyist groups for promoting our brand of model railroading to future generations engendered enduring rounds of applause from the crowd for that joint effort of promotion and recognition by MTH and these groups who work hard and play hard!  Mike Reagan, as he has in the past, updated us on his team's efforts to improve customer service and parts support since he has taken over that unenviable responsibility as director of customer support at Lionel.  As usual, Mike delivered his own salvo of good natured zingers and I think it was made clear to everyone that was in attendance yesterday that despite the intensity of healthy competition, the manufacturers are united as an industry group in their sincere support of the hobby that we all love and enjoy so much.  In an emotional few moments at the end of his presentation, Mike asked military veterans present to identify themselves and a lot of hands went up all over the grandstand.  He then led the Forum in a round of enthusiastic applause for their service.  Mike announced that henceforth in recognition of Lionel's veteran customers, Lionel will pay for shipping any warranty repair work both to as well as from the Lionel facility in Ohio.  Mike's obvious sincerity in the recognition of America's vets left few dry eyes among the attendees and the prepaid warranty shipping announcement was met with a warm response from everyone.

 

The meet, as always, has been a fun and stress-relieving event for all of us who were fortunate enough to attend during these uncertain but hopeful economic times.  I wanted to quickly make note of perhaps one crass economic phenomenon in the hobby that may already be obvious to most of you who buy, operate, and collect modern era items.  It was personally disappointing to see such low asking prices for many locomotive offerings from the first wave of high technology that kicked off in the mid to late '90s.  Remembering Moore's law about computer technology doubling in power every 18 months, I guess that was to be expected.  At York this time, I saw gorgeous and relatively rare die cast steamers being offered for roughly half of their original MSRPs, caught in limbo somewhere between what at one time had been eye-watering technical operability and now the unknowable future of collectibility value.  If it's any consolation, Confederate paper money in good condition is now worth a bundle!

 

I'm making one more pass through the halls this morning to say "good bye" to our vendor friends and thank them again for supporting the hobby and our Forum, then it's off to an afternoon and evening of "prototypical operations" and socializing with dear Forumite friends in southern Pennsylvania and finally back to Denver on Monday afternoon.  To all of you who were not able to attend York and the OGR events this time around, we hope to see you in the fall.  To those old and dear friends with whom I had the welcome chance to renew our semiannual shared York fun and Forum-hatched friendships, it was truly great to see you!  Please have a safe trip home, and enjoy your trains!

 

TiredAndFootsoreButHappyBear

Last edited by Bearlead
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Thank you for your great - and well written - commentary, Bear.

 

I was curious about this statement:

"It was personally disappointing to see such low asking prices for many locomotive offerings from the first wave of high technology that kicked off in the mid to late '90s.  Remembering Moore's law about computer technology doubling in power every 18 months, I guess that was to be expected.  At York this time, I saw gorgeous and relatively rare die cast steamers being offered for roughly half of their original MSRPs...."

 

I would be interested to know more about your observations with regard to this, and some examples. Thanks.

Bearlead said: "I wanted to quickly make note of perhaps one crass economic phenomenon in the hobby that may already be obvious to most of you who buy, operate, and collect modern era items.  It was personally disappointing to see such low asking prices for many locomotive offerings from the first wave of high technology that kicked off in the mid to late '90s.  Remembering Moore's law about computer technology doubling in power every 18 months, I guess that was to be expected.  At York this time, I saw gorgeous and relatively rare die cast steamers being offered for roughly half of their original MSRPs, caught in limbo somewhere between what at one time had been eye-watering technical operability and now the unknowable future of collectibility value.  If it's any consolation, Confederate paper money in good condition is now worth a bundle!"


This is very true and I confirm it.I like scale big steam and there were "blowouts and bargains" to be had on Early Lionel LLC. and MTH scale steam engines.Also many great deals on earlier PS2 scale steam.Prices are already dropping on Lionel non-Legacy items.I expect the same to happen to MTH PS-2 as PS-3 becomes the norm.Earlier LTI steam like the Reading 4-8-4 and NYC Mohawks were seen for 300-350 all over the place.Earlier Williams and Weaver brass at

60-70% of original MSRP-and still sitting on the tables.


I personally bought four large MTH Like New Premier steam engines at slightly less than 1/2 of the original MSRP!

 

It was my first York in many years! I had a blast!

 

Ricky





Great York report Bear!

 

I enjoyed the several minutes we spent together at the OGR booth. This York meet was very special for me in a number of ways. Despite my recent back issues I was able to rent a motorized scooter and enjoy the show!

 

Finally completing the restoration of my Mustang I now had some money in my pocket to spend on trains again! I found an older but brand new MTH NYC Empire State Steam Engine and the matching four car passenger set at a great price! I had been admiring this set for many years and it is very welcome into my collection.

 

The Thursday at Friday's get together is always a blast as we get to catch up with old friends and meet new people as well.

 

I wish that I could have come back on Friday but I had to limit my York visit to just one day at this time. I'm hoping that I'll be able to attend both Thursday and Friday in October after my back surgery.

 

I hope that you and your bride had a wonderful time visiting with all of your friends here in the East.

 

Steve Tapper 

Originally Posted by Boomer:

Bearlead said: "I wanted to quickly make note of perhaps one crass economic phenomenon in the hobby that may already be obvious to most of you who buy, operate, and collect modern era items.  It was personally disappointing to see such low asking prices for many locomotive offerings from the first wave of high technology that kicked off in the mid to late '90s. At York this time, I saw gorgeous and relatively rare die cast steamers being offered for roughly half of their original MSRPs, caught in limbo somewhere between what at one time had been eye-watering technical operability and now the unknowable future of collectibility value."


This is very true and I confirm it.I like scale big steam and there were "blowouts and bargains" to be had on Early Lionel LLC. and MTH scale steam engines.Also many great deals on earlier PS2 scale steam. Earlier LTI steam like the Reading 4-8-4 and NYC Mohawks were seen for 300-350 all over the place.

I personally bought four large MTH Like New Premier steam engines at slightly less than 1/2 of the original MSRP!

  

Ricky

Yes, this isn't much of a surprise. It's been discussed a great deal. As for those older engines like the Reading and Mohawk, they're 21 years old, with no sounds, no command, or anything else modern. Noone wants to pay much for them. MTH would be somewhat worse, of course, because it has never held its value as well as Lionel.

 

Even an engine from the mid to late '90s as Bear mentioned is 13-17 years old, a lifetime in terms of advances in O Gauge. It's not the 80's anymore, and it hasn't been for a long time now; older stuff doesn't hold its value, for the most part.

 

It's not just that technology (i.e., features) has exploded - it's also the fact that catalogs in more recent years have dwarfed the older ones, starting with MTH beginning the use of their mega-catalogs years ago. This has meant a plethora of product that has flooded out into the market since the '90s. That flood has caused the older stuff to drown.

 

It's not "crass," Bear; it just the byproduct of the "progress" everyone wants. Everyone here goes nuts over each new catalog, and they want more more more. Most like it that way, it seems. Like a movie with more special effects. More entertainment, higher octane. The recent thread "What would you like to see Lionel make in 2013" currently runs 7 pages, 249 comments! There you are.

Last edited by breezinup

Thank you all who took time to post your kind comments.  Just got back to Denver last night after a few wonderful days with the Marinaris and the Gaines at Pat and Jean's home and layout in southern Pennsylvania.  Unfortunately that last "social pass" through the Orange Hall with Jophie caused us to just miss Marty Fitzhenry and Dottie at Pat and Jean's.  Sorry, Marty, thought you were staying over on Saturday night.

 

It was truly the highlight of our York trip to see all of you and spend as much time as possible talking trains and just life in general.  I would mention all of you by name, but at my age, I recognize that my memory might hiccup and cause me to inadvertantly leave someone out.  You know who you are, and that I treasure our friendship.

 

As for an example of a 1990s vintage loco at a depressingly low price, the one that stands out in my mind is the MTH Premier UP 2-8-8-2 for under $600!  If I could have gotten it back to Colorado without paying UPS's exorbitant packing and shipping costs, I would have bought it.  I guess if there is any good news in this, it's that the beautiful Proto-1 and pre-TMCC engines from several manufacturers you have in your (and I have in my) collections can still be operated with DCS or Legacy by varying track voltage, but much better yet, they can be upgraded to PS-2 or TMCC by a professional for about $100 if you shop around and provide your own upgrade kit for a total of around $250.  That Proto-1, UP 2-8-8-2 for $500 and maybe a $300 PS-2 upgrade job would be a beautiful bargain aquisition.  Maybe the detailing wouldn't be quite as spectacular as a later PS-2 Premier off-the-shelf version, but for a combined investment of $800, you've got a great running, great sounding, great looking engine!  Incidentally, I would rather pay someone to upgrade my pre-PS-2/pre-TMCC steam roster to PS-2 or EOB/TMCC than sacrifice my investment in them at auction, on Ebay, or at a train meet.  I can upgrade the diesels myself with some help and advice from my pals' expertise and Jim Barrett's excellent OGR Backshop Video, but the steamers have too much variability in their design and construction.  I'll leave them to the pros.

 

The bottom line is that once you start cutting lumber and building your layout, you have to get serious about freezing the technology at some point or with the constantly accelerating march of electronic progress, you can get trapped in a hamster wheel existence of trying to upgrade to ever more capable and seductive forms of command control technology.  I think PS-2 offers me a standard that is somewhat backwards compatible and it can interoperate relatively seamlessly and happily with Legacy-TMCC at least for the foreseeable future.

 

Eventually, all these trains will regain some, all, or most of their value as their collectibility quotient inevitably rises over time.  I know from my real estate brokerage experience, markets are cyclical and supply is ultimately never unlimited.  O gauge trains have had an intrinsic appeal beyond their collectibility over many generations.  I believe the investment value of our past acquisitions combined with the wisdom of buying some particularly nice pieces now at depressed prices will ultimately prove the wisdom of long-term stock investors who use the "dollar cost averaging" philosophy.

 

Meanwhile, I am now back at work, trying to recover from a week's absence.  I feel my nose inching closer to the grindstone!  Ouch!  This is gonna smart!

 

ThePriceWePayBear

 

 

 

 

 

 

HAVE TO agree with several forum members about mid-90's engines going for half price.

great time to buy those trains you couldn't afford when they came out orginally.

total flood of product out there especially on ebay-over 70,000 o gauge items for sale.

companys changing and improving electronics do not help either.like our computers

i sorry to say our trains will be worth a fraction what we paid.

outside of prelionel kline scale items being the only collectible trains now with tmcc and rs.

proto-1's are still selling good in mint cond.-great detail-sound-etc-samhoungsa made-not

china crap-a lot of people still like conventional mode with their hands on a zw or z4000

to control their trains.

remember when the proto ones were the hottest tickets in town and every premier engine

went up in value as soon as it was released-remember tony lash saying it was better than buying stock-the good old days

enjoy your trains-run the h out nof them.joe

I Agree with challenger ,
I've found as of late that you can buy very nicely detailed engines in unrun condition at auction from estate sales. Most of the engines I've bought are MTH premier PS1 engines. I can get these engine in most cases for one third of what they cost new .
A TMCC and sound conversion takes about an hour and costs 185 bucks for the boards
These conversions are so simple and the instructions are so well written that if you can build and wire a layout you can install these with no problem.

You can also get lucky sometimes and find some of the Lionel TMCC equipped engines at a less than blowout price.
You can get deals on PS2 engine too but not quite as often.
I only buy from auction houses that use TCA grading and only C-9 or C-10 engines.
So far I haven't been disappointed.

I guess model trains are like buying a new car. As soon as you drive it off the lot , it's not going to be worth what you paid for it.

David

Bear, thank you for the well written comments on buying and/or upgrading older PS1 steam locos.  You were right on the mark with how I feel about being in a squirrel cage with this ever changing technology and trying to keep up with it.  I for one have decided to get off this merry go round for the most part and continue to enjoy my older trains.  I run DCS proto 2 but have some conventional as well.  For example, I picked up the WBB version of the Norfolk Southern executive F unit A-B-B-A set since I missed out on the limited addition DAP one from MTH but for a lot less $.  It has eye appeal at least and runs good.  I can always convert to DCS if I wish.

 

Happy in California,

 

Ray

Originally Posted by DPC:

Most of the engines I've bought are MTH premier PS1 engines. I can get these engine in most cases for one third of what they cost new .
A TMCC and sound conversion takes about an hour and costs 185 bucks for the boards

Yes, conversions can offer opportunities. You just have to run the numbers.

 

For example, if you want to take a diesel PS1 engine you picked up for $120, and put another $195 in it (the ERR boards plus shipping), now you have a $315 engine. And you still don't have cruise. Add cruise, and you're pushing $400. For that, you can easily buy a Legacy engine (depending on the engine, of course), which has better everything.

 

Even new engines from dealers can be had for the same or not much more than what you can end up putting into a "rehabilitated" engine, and the new ones will be significantly superior. So it depends.

 

Personally, I feel that current Legacy engines have so much to offer they are not going to have me wanting for more for the foreseeable future. They even contain components that will be able to take advantage of upcoming advances.

The more engines you buy, the more you're going to feel like you have an "investment."  I've limited myself to a realistic number of engines that I can regularly use, so don't feel overwhelmed if one or two get "outdated." I don't want to "have an investment" in toy trains.

 

I've read threads in the past where people talk about having bought hundreds of PS1 engines, for example, and then lost zillions when their value went in the toilet. One guy on a current thread claims he owned 600 MTH engines!

 

Once electronics in trains started to get on top in the mid '90s, outdating has happened at an accelerated pace. Rapid obsolecence means you don't want to get too heavily invested in present technology, and that is now the rule for most things. Modern toy trains are equipped with components that will cause them to age much more rapidly than they used to. 

SPMan Ray,

 

All good points!

 

Not sure if I agree with DPC about how easy it is to convert steamers to PS-2, but maybe I ought to take him up on the challenge, grab a PS-1 steam engine shelf queen that I could mess up and not be heartbroken over, and give it a shot.  If I blow it, I know a couple of professionals in the Denver area that could bail me out if need be. 

 

I still definitely believe that diesels, particularly the roomy car body 1st generation Fs, Es, PAs and FAs for example, represent a less challenging place to start with "do it yourself" upgrades.  Jim Barrett's outstanding video is a must-see item before you start.  After watching Jim's "how to" video several times,  I observed Pat Marinari doing a PS-2 conversion of a Proto-1 set of E-8s, and came away feeling confident that I could at least do that much.  Obviously, as with anything, the more you do, the easier it gets.

 

Incidentally, the cool thing about upgrading multiple unit diesels is that you end up with two independently programmable and operable A units, which gives you a lot more flexibility on your engine roster to run interesting power lashups other than a vanilla A-B-A, or A-B-B-A sets, like two A units running "elephant style", both headed forward as Santa Fe sometimes did when they needed another unit in a hurry and didn't have time to spin a unit on the turntable or wye it.

 

GottaGetBackToWorkBear

Bear,

I always look forward to your York thread, you have a talent for really summing things up. I wasn't in Orange Hall 5 minutes before I was thinking of Owen not being there, it just didn't seem real that he's gone. Kim was a big loss as well, but since I usually only ran into him at Fridays, which I missed this year, it didn't hit me as hard as walking in Orange Hall and not seeing Owen.

     It never upsets me to see discounted engines, even if I already own them and paid full retail. I'm always overjoyed to see people getting the same engines I have even if they paid a fraction of the price.  The way I look at it, I have had years of enjoyment (and grief from my wife) and that was well worth the price I paid. 

 

David (DPC),

We live in the same area---where are you finding these estate bargains?

 

Scott Smith

Hey, Scott!

 

Really sorry we didn't get to have our usual visit at York this time.  I still can't believe Kim and Owen aren't with us now, they left a big hole in our hearts that will never completely heal for those of us who knew them on the Forum and in person.  Paulinskill and ChessieMan will live on here on the Forum and among Forumites in perpetuity.

 

I agree substantially with your views about the resale values of our Proto-1 and other conventional K-Line, Weaver, 3rd Rail, Williams, and Lionel engines, but I also think they have intrinsic value to me that would prevent me from selling them as is, whether at a loss or not.  I intend to eventually upgrade them all to PS-2, particularly my beautiful roster of gorgeous brass steam locos from Weaver and 3rd Rail.  BTW, your K-Line scale Hudson with the SDS upgrade is spectacular!  The whistle steam effect is fully worth the price of admission!  Very very realistic, a real crowd pleaser for certain.

 

Let's make sure we get some time together to talk trains at the next York.

 

NoCatInMyHatBear

Originally Posted by scott.smith:

Bear,

I always look forward to your York thread, you have a talent for really summing things up. I wasn't in Orange Hall 5 minutes before I was thinking of Owen not being there, it just didn't seem real that he's gone. Kim was a big loss as well, but since I usually only ran into him at Fridays, which I missed this year, it didn't hit me as hard as walking in Orange Hall and not seeing Owen.

     It never upsets me to see discounted engines, even if I already own them and paid full retail. I'm always overjoyed to see people getting the same engines I have even if they paid a fraction of the price.  The way I look at it, I have had years of enjoyment (and grief from my wife) and that was well worth the price I paid. 

 

David (DPC),

We live in the same area---where are you finding these estate bargains?

 

Scott Smith

Scott,
I can tell you but then I'm gonna have to.............you.

I'll e mail you Scott

David

Originally Posted by Bearlead:
 
Concerning part of your post below, if this is Lionel's new policy then Mike better tell his service department about it.
 
Here's a portion of an email I received today with my return authorization number concerning an in-warranty repaier I called about this morning.
 
"The cost of shipping a product to Lionel for repair is NOT covered under the one year warranty policy. Any package arriving with postage due will be returned to the customer. Lionel will pay the cost of returning the repaired item back to you (although this is not a responsibility of Lionel under the one year warranty policy).

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to be of service. We appreciate your interest in Lionel Trains."

 

What's going on Lionel? Why announce one thing at York and less than a week later send out this message to one of your customers?

 

 "Mike announced that henceforth in recognition of Lionel's veteran customers, Lionel will pay for shipping any warranty repair work both to as well as from the Lionel facility in Ohio.  Mike's obvious sincerity in the recognition of America's vets left few dry eyes among the attendees and the prepaid warranty shipping announcement was met with a warm response from everyone."

 

 

 

Originally Posted by ogaugeguy:

What's going on Lionel? Why announce one thing at York and less than a week later send out this message to one of your customers? 

Are you a veteran?  Was that fact made clear to them when you applied for an RA?

 

Could just be a misunderstanding originating from one of several sources, and I'm confident the folks at Lionel will clarify.

David,

 

I appreciate your clear description of how easy it is to install an ERR conversion kit.  I confess to being more of a fan of DCS than TMCC (original version before the introduction of Legacy) because of its more advanced user friendly features than the Cab One.  Therefore, I had always considered that when I got to it, I would convert all of my non-digitally controlled engines of any manufacture to PS-2/PS-3. 

 

Nonetheless, I do enjoy operating TMCC engines with the DCS system.  After Andy Edelman gave me my first DCS set at the Forum Grandstand Meeting several years back, I still kept a CAB-1 and Command Base around just to set/program the TMCC engine numbers into my Lionel, Atlas, Weaver, and 3rd Rail TMCC-equipped locos.  Then I'd use the DCS to "ADD TMCC ENGINE" and off we'd go.  The only challenge was finding the engine's paperwork a year later to know what number I had assigned to it, although trial and error based upon the cab number usually sufficed to find the engine.  Now, Legacy can read and digitally display the TMCC engine numbers, so that solves that problem.

 

So, now the question is, whether to upgrade my non-digital control (should I say "conventional"?) fleet to PS-2/3, or ERR's TMCC Cruise Commander?  The cost factor is relatively the same, $150 for Railking Club members for the PS-2 upgrade kit, and $185 for the ERR kit.  Oh the choices we must make!  So, I look forward to your perspective on which way you would go if in my position.  I have approximately 40-50 PS-1 or other manufacturer's engines that will need conversion to get them off the shelf and back onto the layout.

 

By the way, I have that same El Capitan set with the add-on powered B unit.  I also had the add-on sleeper and diner cars to make a six-car consist and just last week at York I found another two-car add-on set (from Trainworld and tape-labeled "Production Samples") to give me a total of eight "El Cap" cars!  I was thinking of upgrading the entire ABBA set to PS-2 and in the process move the B unit's powered trucks and associated infrastructure to the unpowered but lighted A unit and do the PS-2 upgrade on both A units, maybe add speakers to the B units too so they all "talk" to me like they should!  Ain't Warbonnets gorgeous no matter who makes 'em?!

 

To GG-1 Man Mario:  Great to see you too.  You and I go back a long way together here on the Forum, old friend.  I too look forward to seeing you in October.  I guess you could say that I'm ready to go again, I already have my room reservations!

 

BaskingInTheYorkAfterglowBear

Bear,
You know what you want but here are your choices. The only way these engine are cost effective to convert is to run the crap outta them . Now with that said the biggest differences between the TMCC conversion and DCS is the sound and how it senses speed. Both are going to give you wireless control BUT the sounds from each one will be different . The PS2 board uses a sound set usually intended for that engine say an S2 and it'll sound like the S2. You have to download these sets from MTH's web site and use a lap top to load it into the engine .
The sound boards from ERR don't require you to download any sound sets as it's already programmed into the board BUT these sound are generic  if you were converting a Williams Crown edition N&W J and you use an ERR board it's not going to sound exactly like a J, it's going to sound like a northern with a generic whistle.
ERR could stand to up their game in the sound department significantly.

There is a difference in the way the two systems gauge engine speed. MTH uses a sensor or Tach reader mounted to the motor housing. A code strip is placed on the flywheel . The sensor reads this strip and tells the board how fast the engine is going.
The TMCC board does this electronically using motor feedback so you just have to connect 2 wires to the motor wires and no tach reader.

So if you just want steam or diesel sound and it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect ERR would be the way to go. Now if you have a Sunset 3rd rail B&O EM-1 you may want something prototypical .

I prefer the TMCC boards for ease of use and installation. That MTH El Capitan has the ERR cruise commander in it with the EMD F-3 sound board . It's one of the best runners I have.

I did e mail Soundtraxx maker of the soon to be out True Blast Plus sound that's going to be in the up and coming Williams engines, about an A/C powered stand alone sound board that would use motor feedback for diesel revs or chuff rate   because their sounds are only about 100 times better than anything MTH or Lionel have(I know and I'm not kidding) but so far I haven't heard back from them yet.

Both will get the job done but I think the ERR boards are easier to install.

David


Originally Posted by DPC:

Breezin up,

Hate to burst your bubble but thats $185 not $195 and includes a board with cruise
and the sound board of your choice

The ERR cruise commander is named  that way for a reason.

David


Hoho. That doesn't burst my bubble. The cheaper the better!. You're right - the Cruise Commander includes Command. So (looking at ERR site) the Cruise Commander is $120, the RailSounds Commander is $100, for a total of $220, plus (in my example) the engine for $120 equals $340. Plus shipping for the parts and whatever labor is involved for those needing installation. So you'll have at least $350 in the engine when the smoke clears. Not including electrocouplers and whatever else you might want.

 

My point was simply that you have to run the numbers, and rehabing a cheap engine can add up fast. I picked up a new Legacy Geep in January for way less than $350. That's a whole lot better than an old semi-scale Proto engine with TMCC and generic Railsounds costing at least $350.  

Originally Posted by DPC:

I did e mail Soundtraxx maker of the soon to be out True Blast Plus sound that's going to be in the up and coming Williams engines, about an A/C powered stand alone sound board that would use motor feedback for diesel revs or chuff rate   because their sounds are only about 100 times better than anything MTH or Lionel have(I know and I'm not kidding) but so far I haven't heard back from them yet.


David


Let me see if I read this correctly.  You're saying that the Soundtraxx sounds are 100 times better than the Lionel or MTH sounds?  I'm not familiar with the Soundtraxx system, but I kind of find that hard to believe.  I don't think I've ever heard, in O gauge, sounds better than RailSounds.  I guess I'll have to give it a try at some point. 

Post

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