I'm pretty sure lionel looks at this forum so it's a great idea to show them these comments and how people feel, if they don't see this or any other company won't CHANGE.
Allan Miller posted:...I still have mine (VHS, of course, since this was the pre-DVD era).
Allan, if it is still viewable, I would suggest that you get it copied to DVD asap... the VHS tape will deteriorate due to the magnetic proximity of the layers of tape on the reel. A DVD is much more permanent!
Dmaxdeere87 posted:I'm pretty sure lionel looks at this forum so it's a great idea to show them these comments and how people feel, if they don't see this or any other company won't CHANGE.
We've been showing them all the comments on their quality issues and nothing's changed, so I doubt one post about them possibly not attending April York will make much difference.
rattler21 posted:eddiem posted:Allan Miller posted:...I still have mine (VHS, of course, since this was the pre-DVD era).Allan, if it is still viewable, I would suggest that you get it copied to DVD asap... the VHS tape will deteriorate due to the magnetic proximity of the layers of tape on the reel. A DVD is much more permanent!
What company will put VHS onto a DVD? John
Lots we brought all my family 8mm and vhs tapes to BJ wholesale and they put them online and gave us DVD copies.
i would suggest a internet search for someone near you
superwarp1 posted:rattler21 posted:eddiem posted:Allan Miller posted:...I still have mine (VHS, of course, since this was the pre-DVD era).Allan, if it is still viewable, I would suggest that you get it copied to DVD asap... the VHS tape will deteriorate due to the magnetic proximity of the layers of tape on the reel. A DVD is much more permanent!
What company will put VHS onto a DVD? John
Lots we brought all my family 8mm and vhs tapes to BJ wholesale and they put them online and gave us DVD copies.
i would suggest a internet search for someone near you
Costco does it as well.
Hudson J1e posted:superwarp1 posted:rattler21 posted:eddiem posted:Allan Miller posted:...I still have mine (VHS, of course, since this was the pre-DVD era).Allan, if it is still viewable, I would suggest that you get it copied to DVD asap... the VHS tape will deteriorate due to the magnetic proximity of the layers of tape on the reel. A DVD is much more permanent!
What company will put VHS onto a DVD? John
Lots we brought all my family 8mm and vhs tapes to BJ wholesale and they put them online and gave us DVD copies.
i would suggest a internet search for someone near you
Costco does it as well.
Combo VHS/DVD recorders are all over the place and cheap. They will also do a conversion. Plus, regardless what one may think about DVD's. The lifespan can be as short as 5 to 10 years. Read/writable DVD's tend to have this lifespan. Also, Any type of sticky label can shorten the life. Use marker.
shawn posted:regardless what one may think about DVD's. The lifespan can be as short as 5 to 10 years.
My Kodachrome slides from the '50s, and Super 8 film from the '70s still look as good as new. Progress 
. Will our children's children have any way to view photos/videos of their ancestor's lives? Will they care? What about all those neat shots/videos currently in your digital files?
Over the last several years I’ve had a boatload of tapes (several different formats) and film converted to DVD. Turned out great and very happy with the service I used. In addition to the pile of DVDs I also had the entire run copied to flash drives. Very handy.
The kicker is I’ve even got some footage of model trains running on an uncle’s Christmas layout in the 1940s! 
MartyE posted:All the folks giving Lionel grief need to remember that other vendors threatened to do the same. Lionel acted. I suspect others will follow. I've heard from at least one other vendor wishing they didn't have to be there in the spring because of the small return. At York you are preaching to the choir. The costs are large for little return.
While im disappointed, I don't see it as a bad move when you can concentrate those dollars on folks that are new to the hobby at an event that caters to new blood.
Roger TEB posted:Lionel, MTH, Atlas, Bachman do not sell at the meet. The dealers that sell their product will still be there. The EDTCA meets started without them and will continue with or without them.
Guessing Lionel has realized that going to York doesn't increase their sales $1. Does anyone believe OGR or other the magazines attract new subscribers at York? Local hobby shops would see more new faces and potential customers.
BobbyD posted:Does anyone believe OGR or other the magazines attract new subscribers at York? Local hobby shops would see more new faces and potential customers.
Well, we do pretty darn good with subscription renewals and our share of new subscriptions at every York Meet. Doesn't pay for the overall cost of participating at the meet in light of all the multi-day expenses, but I believe our readers like seeing us there and I certainly get to meet-up with a lot of authors, including potential authors, and that makes it worthwhile for me. Also get to talk face-to-face with the manufacturer reps and many of the suppliers and dealers, large and small, who advertise with us.
Allan,
I would very much like to see you and OGR attend the Amherst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show in West Springfield, Massachusetts. The coming show will be on Saturday/Sunday, January 26 and 27, 2019. While not primarily O gauge, the show has attracted more than 20,000 people during each of the past five years and there also has been increased representation of vendors from outside the region. It draws model railroaders from New York and New England.
MELGAR
Guessing Lionel has realized that going to York doesn't increase their sales $1. Does anyone believe OGR or other the magazines attract new subscribers at York? Local hobby shops would see more new faces and potential customers.
I have to respectfully disagree. I have purchased alot of Lionel product after seeing samples in person at the York meet. It has also been nice to talk with the Lionel marketing and technical people at York to fire up my interest in their products. Good example is talk I once had with Mike Reagan about where FlyerChief locomotives fit in the scheme of things, went home and ordered. Last meet talked with current Lionel customer service manager Aaron Fraser, and he did a great job resolving an issue I had, right on his laptop at the meet.
Mike
MELGAR posted:Allan,
I would very much like to see you and OGR attend the Amherst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show in West Springfield, Massachusetts. The coming show will be on Saturday/Sunday, January 26 and 27, 2019. While not primarily O gauge, the show has attracted more than 20,000 people during each of the past five years and there also has been increased representation of vendors from outside the region. It draws model railroaders from New York and New England.
MELGAR
They used to Melgar but stopped, hey if they want I'll man the booth for them this year and I won't ask to get paid.
They really need to attend this show. twenty thousand potential customers. Yes they won't make money at the show but that's not the point. Exposure and future life long customers.
superwarp1 posted:MELGAR posted:Allan,
I would very much like to see you and OGR attend the Amherst Railway Society Railroad Hobby Show in West Springfield, Massachusetts. The coming show will be on Saturday/Sunday, January 26 and 27, 2019. While not primarily O gauge, the show has attracted more than 20,000 people during each of the past five years and there also has been increased representation of vendors from outside the region. It draws model railroaders from New York and New England.
MELGAR
They used to Melgar but stopped, hey if they want I'll man the booth for them this year and I won't ask to get paid.
Well, they would need to do it differently.
The first year my sons and I got into the hobby we immediately attended the Amherst show. One of our intended stops was the OGR table. We went up to it and the folks manning it didn't even acknowledge us. We looked over the last several months of back issue mags they had for sale at (full!) cover price and I think they brought some of their building kits too, which we also looked at. Whoever manned the table that year just sat there with no smile, no eye contact, nothing - unless you made a point of getting their attention. And even then, it was like you were bothering them. Struck me as such a stark difference to most show exhibitors. Decided to avoid that table the following year. Don't recall seeing them in subsequent years.
Frankly, I started buying OG mag before any other because I bought the Rich Melvin DVD talking about DCS and thought we has like the poster child for everything good in the hobby, so I knew the mag would reflect that. But after our show experience, it was a real turn off. So again, if they start attending, they might consider who they put at their table. They need ambassadors.
PJB posted:Well, they would need to do it differently...
...if they start attending, they might consider who they put at their table. They need ambassadors.
I've been with the magazine since 2007 and have never been to the Springfield Show, or any other major show, meet, or convention, aside from York.
I did speak at the TCA National Convention in Pittsburgh a couple of years ago, but that was a back-and-forth day trip from home for me.
I would love to attend Springfield and a number of others--including Trainfest in Milwaukee, which I participated in regularly when I worked with Kalmbach--but our OGR publishing schedule makes it virtually impossible. Even attending each Oct. York Meet is, for me, fairly difficult since I am in the midst of proofing one issue and working on another when that event is held. Example: I called in poof corrections from my car in the fairgrounds parking lot at the most recent York meet. Haven't even been able to visit the NJ Hi-Railers during their annual event, and that is something I REALLY have wanted to see and do.
Much as I would love to attend a good number of events, my first responsibility is to the magazine and its readers and advertisers. I also have an additional responsibility that involves helping to keep things (including the printed magazine, digital version, and even this foum) on a sound financial footing. In a changing hobby and marketplace, that unfortunately means sacrificing some things I, or we, might like to do, such as travel, hotels, meals, booth expenses, and that sort of thing.
Good grief! You certainly do wear a vast number of hats.
All decisions about a commercial enterprise come down to investment vs return. If you take a largely closed meet like York you have the same identical audience year after year. How long can vendors keep milking the same people year after year and make the meet profitable for them? Doesn't the ED find it strange that the Allentown Meets with only about 60,000 sq ft of floor space can draw half the amount of York and that other shows like the big E and WGHOT draw up to 30,000 train folks? The answer is obvious; those meets are open and appeal to everybody. Also Allentown is only an $8 admission, the same stuff is sold there and many from the NJ/NY/PHL metro area can drive there and back in one day saving lodging costs. At this point train Meets/Shows need a way to get as many people through the door as possible. You need the families with children looking for fun, the curious youth, couples, the existing audience and the people who may be thinking about coming into the hobby. IMO, keeping York a members only meet is not only a mistake but the exact way to close it. Some may disagree but look at the demographic of the York attendees and tell me how this is the road to growth.
Those living anywhere near Milwaukee (or even not so near) should try to attend Trainfest in West Allis if they have the opportunity. The thing I like best about it is there will be 50+ operating layouts there in all scales, from Z through G. All the major manufacturers will be there, too, as well as a good number of dealers. For a family-type event, it is hard to beat. The same can be said for the Worlds Greatest Hobby on Tour Shows, which do a splendid job of advertising their events well in advance of the show dates. When it comes right down to it, I guess I'm more of a "shows" guy myself, rather than a "meets" guy...probably because I pretty much have all the trains I'll ever really want or need (in several scales) and I most enjoy seeing how others are putting their trains to use.
I'll make it a point, after I retire some day and assuming I might be able to afford it, to attend Trainfest in Wisconsin, the NJ Hi-Railers event, the annual NMRA National Conventions, some narrow gauge conventions, and a couple of annual garden railway/Big Train Operator conventions. Have spent too many years missing those excellent events.
Allan Miller posted:Those living anywhere near Milwaukee (or even not so near) should try to attend Trainfest in West Allis if they have the opportunity. The thing I like best about it is there will be 50+ operating layouts there in all scales, from Z through G. All the major manufacturers will be there, too, as well as a good number of dealers. For a family-type event, it is hard to beat. The same can be said for the Worlds Greatest Hobby on Tour Shows, which do a splendid job of advertising their events well in advance of the show dates. When it comes right down to it, I guess I'm more of a "shows" guy myself, rather than a "meets" guy...probably because I pretty much have all the trains I'll ever really want or need (in several scales) and I most enjoy seeing how others are putting their trains to use.
I'll make it a point, after I retire some day and assuming I might be able to afford it, to attend Trainfest in Wisconsin, the NJ Hi-Railers event, the annual NMRA National Conventions, some narrow gauge conventions, and a couple of annual garden railway/Big Train Operator conventions. Have spent too many years missing those excellent events.
I agree about the value of seeing layouts in action and learning what people are DOING with the stuff they buy. Last year was my first visit to Trainfest, and I intend to make it an annual ritual.
Re your second paragraph - find a way to do it now. We don't know what tomorrow may bring which could make it impossible to do those things. At your age, you are way ahead of most of your contemporaries with health, mobility, cognition, and finances - take advantage of it.
Dennis LaGrua posted:All decisions about a commercial enterprise come down to investment vs return. If you take a largely closed meet like York you have the same identical audience year after year. How long can vendors keep milking the same people year after year and make the meet profitable for them? Doesn't the ED find it strange that the Allentown Meets with only about 60,000 sq ft of floor space can draw half the amount of York and that other shows like the big E and WGHOT draw up to 30,000 train folks? The answer is obvious; those meets are open and appeal to everybody. Also Allentown is only an $8 admission, the same stuff is sold there and many from the NJ/NY/PHL metro area can drive there and back in one day saving lodging costs. At this point train Meets/Shows need a way to get as many people through the door as possible. You need the families with children looking for fun, the curious youth, couples, the existing audience and the people who may be thinking about coming into the hobby. IMO, keeping York a members only meet is not only a mistake but the exact way to close it. Some may disagree but look at the demographic of the York attendees and tell me how this is the road to growth.
The other train shows can draw a crowd but are more suited for showing trains rather than buying them. Besides Allentown. You can do all you want to any show. Kids aren't going to get into trains into their teenage years. I have 3 kids under 8. My boy loves trains and I also won't let him touch a Nintendo and TV is for after dinner or movie watching only. I don't have live TV for this matter. Netflix etc only. I'm trying my hardest to keep all that away but eventually he will see it. I can say though a circle of track on a 4x8 wouldn't keep his attention or any kid. I have made room for 9x 32 with every accessorie I can fit. The buttons that do things keep them occupied. I'm fortunate to have the money and room at 32 . Most friends of mine at my age don't. Also 2,800$ engines don't help this hobby. My wife also kicks butt at not having our kids hooked to iPads and computer stuff. I also don't believe in these new engines as much anymore cause my son gets tired of hearing that train needs repaired etc.
Allan Miller posted:I've been with the magazine since 2007 and have never been to the Springfield Show, or any other major show, meet, or convention, aside from York.
I did speak at the TCA National Convention in Pittsburgh a couple of years ago, but that was a back-and-forth day trip from home for me.
I would love to attend Springfield and a number of others--including Trainfest in Milwaukee, which I participated in regularly when I worked with Kalmbach--but our OGR publishing schedule makes it virtually impossible. Even attending each Oct. York Meet is, for me, fairly difficult since I am in the midst of proofing one issue and working on another when that event is held. Example: I called in poof corrections from my car in the fairgrounds parking lot at the most recent York meet. Haven't even been able to visit the NJ Hi-Railers during their annual event, and that is something I REALLY have wanted to see and do.
Much as I would love to attend a good number of events, my first responsibility is to the magazine and its readers and advertisers. I also have an additional responsibility that involves helping to keep things (including the printed magazine, digital version, and even this foum) on a sound financial footing. In a changing hobby and marketplace, that unfortunately means sacrificing some things I, or we, might like to do, such as travel, hotels, meals, booth expenses, and that sort of thing.
Allan,
When I worked with you recently on my upcoming article, I could not believe your intense and sustained high level of effort on the magazine. OGR is fortunate to have someone so dedicated as its Editor-In-Chief.
MELGAR
MELGAR posted:Allan Miller posted:I've been with the magazine since 2007 and have never been to the Springfield Show, or any other major show, meet, or convention, aside from York.
I did speak at the TCA National Convention in Pittsburgh a couple of years ago, but that was a back-and-forth day trip from home for me.
I would love to attend Springfield and a number of others--including Trainfest in Milwaukee, which I participated in regularly when I worked with Kalmbach--but our OGR publishing schedule makes it virtually impossible. Even attending each Oct. York Meet is, for me, fairly difficult since I am in the midst of proofing one issue and working on another when that event is held. Example: I called in poof corrections from my car in the fairgrounds parking lot at the most recent York meet. Haven't even been able to visit the NJ Hi-Railers during their annual event, and that is something I REALLY have wanted to see and do.
Much as I would love to attend a good number of events, my first responsibility is to the magazine and its readers and advertisers. I also have an additional responsibility that involves helping to keep things (including the printed magazine, digital version, and even this foum) on a sound financial footing. In a changing hobby and marketplace, that unfortunately means sacrificing some things I, or we, might like to do, such as travel, hotels, meals, booth expenses, and that sort of thing.
Allan,
When I worked with you recently on my upcoming article, I could not believe your intense and sustained high level of effort on the magazine. OGR is fortunate to have someone so dedicated as its Editor-In-Chief.
MELGAR
Another thing I'd like to point out about Allan, after hemming and hawing over thinking this might sound like a backhanded compliment (but it's meant as a kudos), is that Allan doesn't just delete posts simply because he happens to personally disagree with their content - even though I'm guessing he too has the admin rights to do so. I really appreciate and respect that.
Heard they were going to change things up, and call it Teem Kroy. 
MELGAR posted:Allan,
When I worked with you recently on my upcoming article, I could not believe your intense and sustained high level of effort on the magazine. OGR is fortunate to have someone so dedicated as its Editor-In-Chief.
MELGAR
Thank you very much, Melvin. That is very kind of you. I am in the enviable position of enjoying what I do. Most folks my age are retired by now, but I like doing what I do and I like to think that this magazine helps to sustain and grow this hobby. That has always been my goal, and it is the true reward for doing this for such a long time. One of these days I also hope to write another book or two because I very much enjoy doing that as well. But, for now my time is spent with the magazine and, hopefully soon, getting back to work on my home layout. That will occupy a good bit of my spare time over the coming winter months.
Well they will definitely be there in April 2019, because they were selling and issuing Badges for that show. I know because I am already registered for April 2019 and have my ticket. A lot of guys pre-registered for the April Show while I was there.
In regards to the York Show, the Big names, Lionel and MTH must bring back their layouts! The best way to promote the Hobby is a great functioning layout with accessories, great scenery and of course great Trains.
Shame on Lionel if they will not attend the Show. In every Show I've attended Lionel has always had big crowds in their section. If they bring back their huge layout they would have even more attention. Guys love to see Trains in action (and especially the kids). (Actually we're all young-in-heart).
It would be stupid for Lionel to miss York .
York April 2019 is game on.
I've noticed that future York meet dates have been updated on the York Meet website. Both April and Oct. dates are set through 2023.
Roger TEB posted:Lionel, MTH, Atlas, Bachman do not sell at the meet. The dealers that sell their product will still be there. The EDTCA meets started without them and will continue with or without them.
Exactly!! Their booth gets worse every year anyway, time for a reboot
Mike McCutcheon posted:I've noticed that future York meet dates have been updated on the York Meet website. Both April and Oct. dates are set through 2023.
We shouldn't get too excited, unless we know that contracts have been signed with the fairgrounds for those dates. Until there's a legal / financial commitment, it's easy to cancel.
A big layout takes a large number of people to assemble and maintain it during a show.
How many employees does Lionel have? I mean people who actually work.
I know I can't reach them by phone, The line is busy for 30-plus minutes, or the staff is in a meeting and unavailable according to some messages. Dean was out for one week. The supervisor was out the next. It took over a month of phone tag and email to get my replacement engine for my Vision Line GG1 #4913 that went back three times, and Lionel service could not get to work properly.-- Vision Line.
The replacement arrived from Lionel Service DAMAGED and with white paint on the 6-85176 C&O 2-6-6-2 side walkway. Thanks, but no thanks. Now it has to go back to Lionel Service for replacement.
In April, Lionel may still be busy fixing the broken items from Christmas. MY CSX F40PH just returned from its second trip to Lionel, and now the sound volume control does not work. It doesn't raise or lower the volume. It will be going back for a third time.
My C&O Allegheny #1604 went in for a pinched wire short, and returned unable to get to the correct speed at higher speed steps. It runs fine under speed Step "21". It drags and stutters at higher speeds.
You have to have something that is outstanding to warrant the money for the show. The new Lionel H-10 is the best engine I have purchased in the last two years. Both my Pennsylvania Lines and Western Allegheny run flawlessly. These 2-8-0 Legacy engines with Whistle Steam and Swinging Bell are worth the money.
Sincerely, John Rowlen
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Mallard4468 posted:Mike McCutcheon posted:I've noticed that future York meet dates have been updated on the York Meet website. Both April and Oct. dates are set through 2023.
We shouldn't get too excited, unless we know that contracts have been signed with the fairgrounds for those dates. Until there's a legal / financial commitment, it's easy to cancel.
I doubt they would have posted the dates on their website unless they were confirmed and a contract in place.
Pete
Norton posted:Mallard4468 posted:Mike McCutcheon posted:I've noticed that future York meet dates have been updated on the York Meet website. Both April and Oct. dates are set through 2023.
We shouldn't get too excited, unless we know that contracts have been signed with the fairgrounds for those dates. Until there's a legal / financial commitment, it's easy to cancel.
I doubt they would have posted the dates on their website unless they were confirmed and a contract in place.
Pete
Totally agree. The Eastern Division is a highly credible organization. They would never post dates for future Shows unless they were signed, sealed and delivered.
RandyO posted:Well they will definitely be there in April 2019, because they were selling and issuing Badges for that show. I know because I am already registered for April 2019 and have my ticket. A lot of guys pre-registered for the April Show while I was there.
In regards to the York Show, the Big names, Lionel and MTH must bring back their layouts! The best way to promote the Hobby is a great functioning layout with accessories, great scenery and of course great Trains.
Shame on Lionel if they will not attend the Show. In every Show I've attended Lionel has always had big crowds in their section. If they bring back their huge layout they would have even more attention. Guys love to see Trains in action (and especially the kids). (Actually we're all young-in-heart).
It would be stupid for Lionel to miss York .
York April 2019 is game on.
Couldn't agree more. Problem is, that with the new "leadership" at Lionel, stupid decisions appear to be par for the course. Just look at some of the bizarre decisions that Lionel has made recently, for example, abandoning the vast majority of their customer base by scrapping their longstanding and industry-leading diecast sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs on their scale freight and passenger cars and replacing them with cheap and inferior non-diecast trucks and ugly thumb tack couplers, in an attempt to satisfy the few 3-rail scale and 2-rail customers, and to save on costs. Ironically, those customers still have to pay more to switch the new trucks and couplers out. And for the core 3-rail group, of which I am a member, the new trucks and couplers cannot be replaced with the former diecast sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncuupling tabs, so many of us have completely stopped buying Lionel cars. Remarkably, Lionel's decision was made in the total absence of consulting any of Lionel's dealers or conducting any market research. This is absolutely incredible and a flagrant violation of elementary marketing principles. For those of us who have been loyal Lionel customers for many, many years, this lack of leadership and direction at Lionel is truly heartbreaking.
York is a very important show for us. We don't sell much, but we meet all our good customers and find out what people want in the coming years. 
So, Sunset Models Inc. / 3rd Rail / Electric Railroad Co and Golden Gate Depot will be there to show off anything new and take your orders.
See you in April. Bob / Scott and Jonathan.
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Well, regardless if Lionel is or isn't going to be there in April, it really doesn't matter either way. Granted you can get some face time with them and you can ask questions about stuff. I think that yes, it does add something to the whole experience, and there is some enjoyment that comes from it, but there is much more value talking to the "normal folks" like you and me as it were and seeing stuff that people create by nailing stuff together you ain't seen before.
I did get a kick out of talking to Scott from 3rd Rail for 15-20 minutes or whatever it was. I had a blast talking to other TCA members during the days and evenings there too. Its better to think of it as the brotherhood & sisterhood then the Lionel, MTH, and such show if you will, they are just added bonus I suppose.
"Talk to Us" has unfortunately become "Yell at Us". You got to YELL because it seems nobody is listening.
Any chance that you might do a run of SP daylight cars (2 rail) either a complete train or a set of coaches??
John Rowlen posted:"Talk to Us" has unfortunately become "Yell at Us". You got to YELL because it seems nobody is listening.
I would say that is an affirmative. I will say that with all the problems that they have had, it sort of did seem like that was the case. I really did wish Dave was there as I am sure he would have really made us folks feel more comfortable about products coming forward.
I put some thought in to why they wouldn't be there in April. The only thing I can possibly think of is that they must have some big things that require the attention of those we would normally see there. I know that this does not see very likely as there would be other people who could take the place or places of some of those we would normally see at any type of train meet or show. Perhaps whatever is taking them away in April is something like a trip to China, some big research thing or some other project to try and help them make better products.
York is a big PR event for them as any other train meet. So without them there this will open the door for the other manufacturers to speak louder you could say since no one is in that corner to speak. So, it will be interesting in the coming year to see what press comes out from them to make their voice less scratchy if you will.
Word on the street has it that in April a whole lot of people will gather at York, have fun together, and get some good deals.
I would have never been to York if it had not been described and discussed here.
jbmccormick posted:I would have never been to York if it had not been described and discussed here.
Two of the reasons I went is because there was a conversation on here from the prior year and one of the guys I knew from purchasing an engine off of EBay(who I run into at train shows) told me I have to go. I have never regretted it, been a blast both October's for me. This coming year should be better, I just have to hope that work doesn't hold me back with the no vacation in late October.
