Your opinions on a a toy train/Model RR museum exhibit

There is a K-Line reefer whose roof is removable to show sides of beef hanging from that roof and blocks of ice in the bunkers.  In the meat industry at first we had cattle drives to the rail head to the beef packers.  Then reefer cars, then refrigerated highway trailers and now frozen food.   The K-Line car is educational and interesting.  John in Lansing, ILL

It might be interesting to show examples of Lionel trains from the various eras to depict the evolution over time. You have over a hundred years of history to draw from. If you did four or five Christmas scenes, you could include other artifacts in each to capture the pop culture of the time, but the constant would be a train.

Do one scene for every 20 years starting around 1910. Then hit 1930, 1950, 1970 and 1990. That could be a lot of fun. There are so many possibilities with this concept.

I would suggest a layout that goes around another Christmas Tree w/ a Christmas tree layout, raised on one end.   The circle of track should run a postwar type (looking) engine and shorter (5- cars and a caboose?) train suggesting what might have been around Christmas trees in the postwar era.

The track plan on the drawing was the original John Allen Gore and Daphetid  base layout .  It offers opportunities for scenery, and running two trains that would pass in front to the viewer several times a minute.  I suggest one larger (Berkshire?) scale Steam engine, and one smaller O Scale diesel of more recent vintage, pulling maybe a 15-car train- the older one w/ caboose, the modern one w/ end of train light. 

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

It might be interesting to show examples of Lionel trains from the various eras to depict the evolution over time. You have over a hundred years of history to draw from. If you did four or five Christmas scenes, you could include other artifacts in each to capture the pop culture of the time, but the constant would be a train.

Do one scene for every 20 years starting around 1910. Then hit 1930, 1950, 1970 and 1990. That could be a lot of fun. There are so many possibilities with this concept.

You could do a few examples from 1910 - 1942 and again from 1945 - 1960, and 1970 - 2019 and explain all the advances thru the years. 

Like from 1942 - 1945 Lionel made items for the military as we were in WWII at that time, If you could find some of the Lionel products during that time would be really cool. 

1910 - 1942 Standard gauge, O-27 and O gauge sizes. 

Just some ideas

William Rifenbury 010118 posted:

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

It might be interesting to show examples of Lionel trains from the various eras to depict the evolution over time. You have over a hundred years of history to draw from. If you did four or five Christmas scenes, you could include other artifacts in each to capture the pop culture of the time, but the constant would be a train.

Do one scene for every 20 years starting around 1910. Then hit 1930, 1950, 1970 and 1990. That could be a lot of fun. There are so many possibilities with this concept.

You could do a few examples from 1910 - 1942 and again from 1945 - 1960, and 1970 - 2019 and explain all the advances thru the years. 

Like from 1942 - 1945 Lionel made items for the military as we were in WWII at that time, If you could find some of the Lionel products during that time would be really cool. 

1910 - 1942 Standard gauge, O-27 and O gauge sizes. 

Just some ideas

That's part of the problem with this concept, choosing from so many good examples for each era. Do you have a girl's set as part of the 50's? This is a museum, which typically has limited space and resources. I'd love to know more about their other exhibits and collection of artifacts.

First- IF you have a HUGE space and unlimited budget- yes make it big!! 

If not- then I would think reliability would be paramount.   Actually running postwar locomotives and cars for hours a day would be a maintenance issue, as well as getting good condition examples in the first place.   After all even though they WERE great from a running perspective, well-built, metal gear trains etc.- they are OLD, and they would be 1950- vintage - 60+ years old!!  

So- I would think a more recent set of trains - maybe from the late 1990's with metal gears, and a good maintenance program- might make sense.

Another option would be to use new ones, then turn them over- sell them off- after say 60 days on the display??

I know all about not running vintage trains in a public display setting. I have boxes full of dead locos to prove it.

The solution to this is to either re-motor them with cans, and / or use a push button to limit activation time. If the track plan is kept to a simple circle or oval, maybe a figure 8, people will be inclined to move along a little.

I think if I understand correctly, you are trying to tell American railroad history through the use of model trains rather than depict the history of toy/model trains.  Is that correct?

I think major items you would want to model could be:

1. Early models such as the Tom Thumb, DeWitt Clinton, and John Bull - I believe Lionel made some of these a number of years ago.

2. The different uses of the steam locomotive/railroad system in the north vs south.  North was more standardized and had longer routes within the industrialized North.  The South wasn't standardized and consisted of many different shortlines designed to get cotton and other crops to port.

3. The impact of each system in the Civil War.  The uses of the trains during the civil war and during reconstruction of the south.  There is a Lincoln Funeral train among other items

4. Railroad's facilitation of westward expansion.  Grain farming, livestock, postal service, telegraph, passenger travel, etc.

5. Building of the transcontinental railroad.  Blasting through mountains, trestles, etc.  

6. WW I and WWII travel, affect of building interstate system on railroads.

7. Transition era to diesels

8. Consolidation and Mergers

9. Modern uses, inter modal design, ocean liner to shipping port, to rail, to truck

10. Future state - high speed trains, mag lev, etc.

11. I also think it would be appropriate to have a Christmas tree with simple oval depicting the tradition of a train under the tree.

Keep us updated on your progress.  It sounds like a neat idea!

mint condition prohibition posted:

Hello guys, Im doing a sort of a survey on what would make a decent model railroad/toy train exhibit in a museum that represents the history of the US. I am curating for a California based "pop culture" museum, it has collections that represent every part of American history that we come across. There is no bigger image in the USA than of a Lionel train around a Christmas tree so in you guys opinions, what would make an amazing toy train/model RR room or exhibit? We are not out to have the most amazing, or biggest, but we want something that catches EVERYONE's eye from 9-90 years old. My plan is to have operating layouts in HO, O and Tinplate with collections of trains on the wall. What Im asking is, what are some eye-catchers and educational pieces we can exhibit? A small example of what we have done, we have 4 life-size Alien (the movie) eggs in a dimly lit area, with the fog machines and thunder machines going to create an environment. This is accompanied by screen used props, statues, and educational plaques. We like the total environment or room emersion exhibits, not just a few pieces to represent the topic.

JD, I think you may have misunderstood the project at hand. I don't think it is intended to be the history of railroading in America.

I'm not even sure why he wants to include HO in this exhibit. If the idea is to capture all ages, nostalgia is a great way to do that, making it truly inter-generational. You want people to relate to the vision presented, remember what it was like when they were children or to imagine what it was like for children of a different era.

I would name my concept "Trains of Christmas Past", but it could include a wide range of non-train elements for each time period represented.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

mint condition prohibition posted:

Hello guys, Im doing a sort of a survey on what would make a decent model railroad/toy train exhibit in a museum that represents the history of the US. I am curating for a California based "pop culture" museum, it has collections that represent every part of American history that we come across. There is no bigger image in the USA than of a Lionel train around a Christmas tree so in you guys opinions, what would make an amazing toy train/model RR room or exhibit? We are not out to have the most amazing, or biggest, but we want something that catches EVERYONE's eye from 9-90 years old. My plan is to have operating layouts in HO, O and Tinplate with collections of trains on the wall. What Im asking is, what are some eye-catchers and educational pieces we can exhibit? A small example of what we have done, we have 4 life-size Alien (the movie) eggs in a dimly lit area, with the fog machines and thunder machines going to create an environment. This is accompanied by screen used props, statues, and educational plaques. We like the total environment or room emersion exhibits, not just a few pieces to represent the topic.

JD, I think you may have misunderstood the project at hand. I don't think it is intended to be the history of railroading in America.

I'm not even sure why he wants to include HO in this exhibit. If the idea is to capture all ages, nostalgia is a great way to do that, making it truly inter-generational. You want people to relate to the vision presented, remember what it was like when they were children or to imagine what it was like for children of a different era.

I would name my concept "Trains of Christmas Past", but it could include a wide range of non-train elements for each time period represented.

Thanks Elliot, I agree with you after re-reading the part that you highlighted.  Helps to actually read the original post, lol!

With that settled, I will offer up the concept of a department store Christmas display.  Back when people frequented downtown department stores.  This would be a fun immersion display to create and be a visitor. 

Now you've got it! Cool pics. I've got nostalgia tingles all over.

Confession: I have on occasion been guilty of not reading carefully. To really get it, I have to go over it a few times.

You should include American Flyer and Marx. Contrary to popular belief, not EVERY toy train in the 50's was made by Lionel.

Bigboy 4005, those photos are exactly the "feel" we are going for. And like you guys stated, some sets from the years showing the progression of their product, and throw in some of the other companies trains in displays. We put an ad in Craigslist requesting "donations" in the form of "old trains", in exchange, I would clean their garage or attic....hopfully something comes from that LOL. I didn't realize these trains were so expensive. We are not looking for the mintiest samples either, we want good samples but ones that look played with so thats what I am looking for on eBay ect. We did this type of  "history of"showing with video games starting with Sears "pong", continuing with Nintendo, Sega, and all the major companies. We did like a bedroom scene with the Nintendo on the floor, ET posters, Transformers scattered about etc. We generallly like to tell stories with our exhibits and besides 1940s comic books, this is my favorite and I know KIDS LOVE TRAINS!!!!!!

I agree with "Royboy".  There were many more Marx sets in the dime stores l toured monthly as a kid than appeared in department stores, who also carried trains, all three brands, but only in the holiday season.   The one hobby shop in town carried Lionel, only, that l remember, not even Flyer, all year.  Marx trains did dry up in dime stores after the holidays.  But, as a curator, you are familiar with other museums. The Children's Museum of Indianapolis, at my first visit, had an excellent toy train display on an upper high traffic floor...at my last, not recent, visit, few were shown and relegated to a MUCH smaller basement display.  Rochester, NY had/has? a display of many less common trains.  Is it still prominent?  How much traffic do the above and the TCA Strasburg museum get in this era?  I am just listening to what doomsayers are calling a shrinking hobby, and noting the loss of train shows and manufacturers.  This, if a reality, museums have to consider. you

So we are talking just more of "Toy Traing Through the Years" type of exhibit? Basically showing various makers, various sets, accessories, and promotional material. This along with some running samples would be a win. I have seen where some places have push button accessories in public reach so kids can blow horns and whistles ect.

OK, as a former museum professional and current US history PhD candidate, I'm a little confused.   Mint Condition Prohib., can you please clarify for me the interaction of the following two aspects?  In your original post, you mention the history of the US but also pop culture.  You just gave some examples of Nintendo/video games. I like that you seek to tell stories with your objects.  That's great.

Is the actual emphasis of the museum on using pop culture and pop culture objects as the lens through which you will tell the history of the US?  So, for example, lava lamps to represent (godknowswhat :-); car design to represent changing transportation, economic shifts, design trends, etc.

How do the alien eggs tie into US history?  (The pop culture part is obvious but I don't get the tie in to US history.)

If this presumption is correct, then yes, trains as holiday and hardware store displays come to mind.  This is the cultural aspect of the toys.

As has already been pointed out, there is an amazing story to be told of the evolution of the railroads, the machines, the technology, and so on.  But that to me is not pop culture.  "Pop culture" is a modern term (1960s?) and not one that I associate with trains -- toys or otherwise.   On the other hand, the evolution of industrial design is something that can be shown very well and in a reasonable amount of space via engine and railcar models.  (For example, the wall of models showing technical innovations over time.  Having tinplate examples would tie in with the innovations/designs with other toys.)

Interesting project.  I'll look forward to following your progress.

Tomlinson Run Railroad

One other thought: for the pop culture aspect you can't go wrong with toy trains in movies and cartoons.  Think of all those corny movies with the monsters destroying toy trains.  

Depending on your budget and technical chops, you could have a chronological highlights reel playing in the background.  You get sound, motion, fashion, and history all rolled into one, plus a bonus tie-in to cinema and TV -- two other pop culture areas.

There's a Forum thread that gets activated periodically that might provide a fun research project or additional ideas.

TRRR

Mike Wyatt posted:

I would suggest a a Christmas tree layout, raised on one end.   The circle of track should run a postwar type (looking) engine and shorter (5- cars and a caboose?) train suggesting what might have been around Christmas trees in the postwar era.

I agree...keep it simple with a easy to understand message: "This was popular years ago, why not put one under your tree?". Perhaps use a current "starter set" with the price shown.

Seems to me that there is an opportunity to do a series of exhibits combining Christmas / Toy Trains / Home Decor. Trains, trees, and decor would all look different in different decades. Four exhibits could potentially occupy the corners of a single large room: four trees with four running trains, plus complementary "just unwrapped" train items - or other toys for that matter.

TomlinsonRunRR posted:

...  "Pop culture" is a modern term (1960s?) and not one that I associate with trains -- toys or otherwise.   ...

if this isn't Pop Culture/ Trains (ca. 1951), i don't know what is...

TomlinsonRunRR posted:

One other thought: for the pop culture aspect you can't go wrong with toy trains in movies and cartoons.  Think of all those corny movies with the monsters destroying toy trains.  

Depending on your budget and technical chops, you could have a chronological highlights reel playing in the background.  You get sound, motion, fashion, and history all rolled into one, plus a bonus tie-in to cinema and TV -- two other pop culture areas.

There's a Forum thread that gets activated periodically that might provide a fun research project or additional ideas.

TRRR

One of the greatest movie scenes featuring Lionel trains is the dinner table scene from "Nothing But Trouble" with Chevy Chase, Demi Moore, Dan Aykroyd and John Candy. A little dark and weird, but from the moment the the table opens up, the train steals the show.

Also, you can't go wrong with the Addams Family which had its own forum topics within the last six months.

If you want pop culture, there's the 90's and the 60's right there.

overlandflyer posted:

TomlinsonRunRR posted:

...  "Pop culture" is a modern term (1960s?) and not one that I associate with trains -- toys or otherwise.   ...

if this isn't Pop Culture/ Trains (ca. 1951), i don't know what is...

I agree, it doesn't matter when the term was coined. Every time period has popular culture to reflect the products and attitude of the day.

BTW, great clip of the 50's. Part of the fun, beyond the trains, is seeing the furnishings and the clothing of the day. That all helps to create a certain feel.

Lots of suggestions! As is generally the case, the limitations of available space and funding will determine how many ideas can be adopted and subsequently installed in a museum environment. Suggestion #1: plan to re-do the display annually (perhaps with a "re-opening" at Christmas time) to tell a continuing story and keep it "new" in perpetuity. Many visitors who see the display once may be disappointed upon their return to see "the same old thing."

About the Christmas tree ...
Several "around the tree" track plans are available at websites, and those with more interesting paths (not just concentric ovals) would be more engaging to visitors.  Suggestion #2:  place Lionel Christmas-theme trains under the tree: Polar Express, North Pole Central, Christmas version of THOMAS, etc.

Carry on ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

mint condition prohibition posted:

.... What Im asking is, what are some eye-catchers and educational pieces we can exhibit? ...

this would probably be classified as more of an educational piece, though to a MR fan, anything with wheels that moves is an eye-catcher.  an old exhibit i replaced used all sorts of cabooses to show scale size, but after some research as to what was available, i discovered that i could come up with a 40' wood reefer in Z, N, TT(!), HO, S, O  and #1 scales.  i also put up a brief history of the reefer car itself (not always for refrigeration) and a brief explanation of scale sizes, and on the bottom shelf i did a short timeline of model development (of the reefer, of course) from a Marx tinplate, to a Marx 3/16" scale, to a Flyer S gauge to a full scale/ detailed 1:64 reefer.

i found a very useful technique to a successful exhibit was to spend a few hours hanging out around a new display listening to the comments people make.  it's also a harder task than you think to make up effective display text.  too little information and you have a boring exhibit; too much information (there always is) and patrons will get a glazed look in their eyes and simply walk by.

TomlinsonRunRR, You are taking the terms and name TOO literal. The overall theme is pop culture. If we were to stick to only PC, we would be leaving a lot of history out. We are a museum with dozens of collections of collecions, we dont operate like some other smaller museums where there mabye 1 of this, 2 of that, and overall its items create a museum. We have a collection of video game consols that span 1960 to present, this includes Japan, French, German ect. If we took it too literally, we wouldn't have forgn consols. The Alien exhibit was a "cinema" display showing the Alien franchise. Everything isn't a story, we have about 200 Pez dispensors...no story, just a cool display.  We have sports, cinema, music, books, toys and an art program. Thains are something I have loved since Jr High so Im trying to come up with something special for this collection. Even though I personally buy ALL items, Im taking this one personally and I thought there is no better way to come up with ideas than the vets on here. I know what the term "pop culture" means, and I know what "Prohibition" is, these are loose areas and time periods we work within to show items and sometimes tell stories through items.

Hello Mint Condition Prohibition!..........I hope you add a Beatles Yellow Submarine flatcar to your display..........that's my position!