Lionel Polar Express Question

If you run the scale Legacy version, Lionel gives you exactly what your looking for.

"This year's" set is like all of them, a basic motor driven air whistle, smoke, but no chug, no sound.

You can get a coach with Tom Hanks yelling "All Aboard ", a tender with Trainsounds, a loco with working steam from the whistle, and a gazillion other cars, accs, figures, etc., all for extra cost.

The latest sets do not come with a big silver bell in the box like the first runs.

If there was a MTH Polar Express set it could have any of the sound clips from the movie as you can record them and play them back through the tender.   You could even play the whole movie and have the audio play through the speakers.

--Greg

I was looking at the basic starter set. 

I would imagine that adding/upgrading would increase the intial cost substantially, was hoping to keep it as a starter set for a child.

Does Lionel offer the Legacy version as a set? With track & transformer (wireless)?

I'm pretty certain that if you want to play in the Legacy arena for PE, Lionel's Polar Express is strictly an ala-carte offering... and gets expensive very quickly. 

Legacy locomotive + polar express legacy tender + individual passenger cars.  By the end of this year, there should be 7 scale PE passenger cars -- each about $150+.  By the time you're all done, you're WELL above $2K.    That's why it's best to build this type of a set over time as the cars are introduced.  Definitely not starter-set material though.

David

The starter set Polar Express is a really good set in my opinion. It runs well, and kids love it (Kids of ALL ages!).  I would strongly recommend getting the 6-36875 coach with Tom Hanks calling out 'All aboard. This is the Polar Express.' This coach adds greatly to the Polar express experience. The conductor figure holding his lamp on this coach looks really good too.  The smoke works well once you get past half throttle. Although such speeds are disconcerting for us older modellers, kids tend to have no such problems. 

I love my polar express with whistle steam, I have an MTH UP 4-6-0 which is all black so I also use it with the P.E. I never thought about playing movie scenes through the Proto cast. And even better instead of shelling out the extra 130 dollars the DCS remote allows you to record your own sounds into the remote and you can play them on any of your engines, Too bad I didn't know about this when I bought my conductor car 

I was just thinking, for those desiring a command control version, but not the expense of the scale Legacy version (or even the expense of full Legacy electronics + Legacy system), that the remote control system being used in the new Thomas sets would be ideal for a new version of the Polar Express.  It is obviously not expensive, as the price of the new Thomas sets indicate.  Also, it runs on full 18v, so smoke output would be improved.

Andy

I took the sleeve off of the smoke element and replaced the packing material with fiberglass insulation. My PE Berk now smokes incredibly well at any speed. It even smokes well down by the cylinders. What a sight.

The only thing you really have to watch on the PE set Berk is the cross-head guides. Unlike older PW locos that had a screw attaching the cross-head guide to the chassis, the ends of the PE cross-head guides, as the saying goes, "Have no visible means of support."

What this means is if 'little fingers', or big ones for that matter, aren't careful, the end of the guides can be bent up or down a little bit. When this happens, over time as the cross-head moves back and forth it will push the guide farther and farther up or down. Eventually it reaches a point where everything jams, the loco stops moving and, depending on how fast the loco was going at the time, several "not good" things can happen.

I've seen all of these scenarios come through my shop due to a cross-head jam:

If your lucky, and the loco wasn't running very fast, all that's needed is to bend the cross-head guide back into position. A little faster and the eccentric gear linkage will bend, and also have to be straightened. Faster still and the drive rod on one or both sides can snap and have to be replaced. And, if the little engineer was moving at 'warp 9.5' when the jam happens, the worm wheel can strip loose from the drive axle.

So, keep the fingers away from the cross-head guides and you'll get many years of service from the starter set PE Berk. And maybe if Lionel ever does a 'Phase III' version of the starter set PE Berk, they'll change the guides so the ends are supported like they were in the "good ole' days".

Thanks Jumijo, I'll see about doing that to mine. Mine smokes like a trooper at warp 3 and above, but it would be nice to be able to run it slower. 

The Polar Express is a great starter set, period.

Mine smokes better than it did after the same operation, although I wouldn't call it incredibly well.  It smoked by the cylinders too, until I reseated the gasket between the smoke unit and the loco's shell. 

Pete

Another option to improve smoke output is to replace the 30ohm 3watt heating resister with either a 20 or 22ohm resister. These will get hotter at lower voltage settings.

They are available from Lionel parts dept:

691RES3W20 - 20 ohm 3 watt smoke unit resistor

691RES3W22 - 22 ohm 3 watt smoke unit resistor

"By the time you're all done, you're WELL above $2K."

...and after spending $2k, from the front it doesn't even look like the PE from the movie!

It looks like a model of the Pere Marquette.

The semi-scale version looks a lot more like the real PE in my opinion. Below pictured is...

1. Movie Version

2. Scale/Legacy version(need to replace PM tender with PE)

3. Semi-scale version w/no command or cruise, hardly any smoke, no sounds except for a whistle that needs altered so you can here it.

This is where Lionel dropped the ball in my opinion. They sell more starter sets because the price(can be had for about $175). This is good for getting a lot of money quickly! But there isn't enough to make a life long train lover for the hobby. For many this is their first O-gauge train! But you have to take the engine and tender apart to get the make smoke unit and whistle to work adequately? The average parent who is buying this for his kid at Christmas isn't going to do that! This is the reason not only is it the first O gauge train set, for many it ends up being their only o gauge train set!

I know some may say that their first train was the Lionel PE set and now they are enthusiastic O gauge fans for life. Good!  But I can't tell you how many parents who have been in my basement to see my trains (with cruise, command, smoke and sound) and are amazed. When I ask if they have trains, they say, "We have the PE train set, but its nothing like these."

To bad Lionel does not make a $349 set with all the nice features kids and adults love but at a semi-scale size for under the tree

Really..!!!!...that's pretty sad...the bell is part of the magic of the PE....they probably figure out they could save some serious $$$$ by not including it anymore.

Do the newly designed box still show the cars with the 6 wheels truck ?

After running my scale PE for literally thousands of people over the past several weeks, and talking to literally dozens of people about it, I really think that this doesn't matter to the general public.  I fielded a lot of questions about it, including the usual "why is it bigger than mine", but not one person mentioned the difference in the pilot or even the non-rounded end of the observation car roof.  They were, however, fascinated by the abandoned toy car and the children passenger figures and the lone boy in the observation car, the detail level of the engine, and the overall size of the engine and cars.  And a surprising number of people noticed the Hot Chocolate Mega-Steam I was using, as well.  And judging by the faces of the kids and their parents who didn't stop to talk about it, they were apparently surprised, delighted and impressed by it, regardless of the differences with the movie version.

And let's not forget that the engine in the movie doesn't look exactly like the illustrations in the book, either.

As for a traditional-sized set with more features, I think that Lionel should do a deluxe set version with the remote control system that they use in the new Thomas sets, and include whistle smoke and RailSounds in the engine.  Since no transformer is needed with the Thomas-style system, and no new tooling would be necessary, the cost of the set shouldn't be too much more than the standard conventional set.

Andy

Excellent suggestions Andy!

Lionel really shouldn't be the manufacturuer of choice for a starter set in my opinion as the MTH sets are so much better except in the following two instances:

1) You are a fan of one of the licensed sets such as PE, Hogwarts

2) You are buying for a very young child say 2-3 yrs of age where the child would try to push the engines around the track.  Here their starter sets would be good as these engines have free running drivers and can be pushed, ie: Pennsy Flyer.

Other than that MTH really has the better product at this level in my opinion.

--Greg

Sorry to see yours doesn't smoke as well as mine does. I believe my cylinder smoke is related to a not-so-close tolerance between the smoke unit's piston chamber and piston. At the beginning of each holiday season, my loco is flat black. At the end of the season, less than a month later, it's semi-gloss black from all the atomized smoke fluid.

After a quick check, I found an MTH (new PS3) Pennsy Starter Set w/ 4-6-0 Steam Engine(not a small Berk) with 3 passenger cars for $325.

Lionel PE starter set is $250(Charles Ro), adding the car that has passenger announcements adds another $95, bringing the total to $345, and I'm still left with a wimpy smoke unit, no Engine sounds, let alone no remote control and no big silver bell (really? what executive made that huge decision?)

I don't need some scale version , like Andy mentions, kids (and adults) don't really care. Looks like comparable starter sets from MTH with nice smoke units, all the PS3 features (engine chugs, air release,  passenger sounds/announcements, remote control, constant speed control, auto coupler release etc....) has a distinct advantange over what Lionel offers. Perhaps Lionel keeps an ear to our forum and might step it up a bit. 

I guess my best option is to run MTH steam (PS3) pulling the Lionel PE cars.

My next question is can the Tom Hanks announcements(Lionel's Passenger car) be activated with DCS?

If you can still find them, the engine and tender combined are going to run you about $1400 and if you buy a second tender, that will set you back another $350 or so.  When I pay that sort of money for a model, I expect it to look like what it was modeled after - in this case the PM 1225.  While I can understand some people wanting the toy to look like what they saw in the movie, I'm happy Lionel made it this way.

If you can really find the PE set for $175, I'd grab them up.  MSRP is currently about $340 and the best "on sale" price I have seen is about $250.

My set has worked like a charm for the many years I have had it and I have no complaints.

You don't activate it with DCS or TMCC - the feature is transformer activated.

--Greg

You can always re-paint and re-letter the engine as the Polar Express.  I've seen examples of such re-paints of MTH engines on this very forum (although not recently) and they looked good.  Or you can try to get a spare tender shell, paint it and swap out the shells so you can run it the rest of the year with the original tender.

Andy

So, can it ONLY be operated by the transformer?

What do you do to activate it?

Can't hit the whistle button, cause the whistle would blow then, can't hit the bell button cause the bell would ring then, what buttons are left? direction? so how do you activate it?

Is it a separate "activation button box"?

Has anyone tried it with DCS? Is it a special signal or something?

You have to purchase the officially licensed PE conductor activation button box for $49.95 (PN OU812).

You activate the conductor car by pressing the bell button. The PE tender from the set doesn't have a bell.

I assume the $49.99 "Conductor activation button" comes with the separate purchase car, correct? 

No ringing Bell with the Polar Express engine? .....seriously? oh my. I didn't know that.

We all know what happens when we assume, David. Look at that part number. I was joking about the button. As stated before, the car activates with the bell button.

Can someone provide me with the product number of the scale version of the PE? Is it still available from Lionel?

chow

Right now with Lionel, it seems they make a very basic version and high end version. What happened to us in the middle class

I don't spend $1500 on my scale engines that actually fit my PRR railroad. So don't want to spend that much for one that is more of a holiday train.

I guess I want the best of all worlds!

1. Looks like Movie PE(A Berkshire with a big cow catcher for the antelope)

2. Has all the "bells and whistles"...and smoke and sound etc...

Honestly, semi-scale or a moderately priced(under $1K)scale is fine for me. But semi scale would be better for under the tree.

Is it at all possible to take a Lionel Semi scale PE and upgrade to full PS-2 or TMMC/Crusie/Smoke/RS? Or is it too small?

My son was given the PE set for Chrsitmas two yrs ago. He never asks to run it under the tree. He would rather see the MTH OSU set I got for $275. It is not because he like The OSU Buckeyes more than the PE movie. It is completely because of all the sound, smoke, and smooth speeds of the OSU train.

I think you buy the Lionel Scale Pere Marquette and then buy the PE tender separately. The movie modeled their engine after the Pere Marquete(someone help me out if I am wrong) but just added a big cow catcher on the front.

Surprised no one has mentioned that Lionel didn't even get the lettering right on the passenger cars which ever scale you get. In the movie the name Polar Express is not over the windows but below them.

I seem to remember some people installing command electronics (TMCC) in their PE engines by way of Electric RR products (they also have RailSounds upgrades).  If TMCC can be put into such small items as the inspection vehicles, SuperStreets vehicles and speeders, I don't know why they couldn't be installed in the PE jr. Berks.  You would have to contact ERR about which products to use (which ones will fit) or contact someone that does professional installations (Weaver used to do this as a service, but I don't see anything about it on their web site).

Andy

This is correct.  You can get either or both tenders.  I'll look up the part number if nobody has posted it by the time I get home from work.

Here's the list:

6-11203  PM 1225 Berkshire (engine only, no tender)

6-11151  Polar Express Legacy RailSounds Tender

6-25575  Polar Express Heavyweight Passenger Car 2-Pack

6-25578  Polar Express Heavyweight Coach Add-On

6-25586  Polar Express Heavyweight Baggage Car

6-25587  Polar Express "Abandoned Toy" Heavyweight Passenger Car

6-25598  Polar Express Heavyweight Combination Car

6-25630  Polar Express Heavyweight Diner

The PM 1225 with PM tender was also catalogued together as 6-11146.

The diner and combo cars are shipping soon (according to other sources here on the forum), but the production runs are done on the other items.  The engine, tender and 2-pack (contains the car with children figures and observation car) will be the most difficult to find, but they are out there.  I saw the engine and tender at York just a couple of months ago.

Andy

This is a great choice. You know if you have the full dcs system you don't need the car. You can record custom sounds into the DCS system and play back on any ps2 or ps3 engine. So you can record any sound from the movie.

Liam, Can you record them direct(with an audio cable) or would you have to use the remotes external mic?

Not bashing Lionel, but I am starting to think for the guys who want a cool PE for under the tree with all the extra effects, it would have been much better if MTH would have got the licensing.

That brings me back to, why is Lionel is not making a TMCC/Cruise/Sound...baby Berk PE? I could live with the poor smoke unit.

My wife has the Polar Express starter set, with most of the add-on cars, including the announcement car.  The weird thing is that the announcement is not activated as per the manual by pressing the bell button, which would make sense as the starter tender has no bell sound.  Pressing the bell button does nothing. 

Howver, pressing the whistle button activates the whiste and the announcement!  A quick press the whistle stops fast enough to hear the announcement.  Most of the time they drown each other out......that's if you can her either of them over the FasTrack noise!

Any ideas why the bell button wouldn't activate as expected?  ShE is using the CW80 that the starter set came with.

Gary

Gary, the wires that power the announcements car are switched, that's all.  Inside the car, the wires from the two trucks should be connected to the two sound board wires with wire nuts.  Switch the two sound board power wires, and the bell button will activate the announcements.

Thank you Rob and Nicole.

I will take care of that after work today.