Great work, Bill !
Peter
@David Minarik posted:Bill,
That furnace is looking fantastic!!! I'm really impressed and now afraid to ever let you see mine! lol
I signed on to follow this thread. I can't believe I've missed this progress.
Bad news Dave, I studied the heck out of yours while I was working on mine. I feel like I've seen it in person haha Your casting floor in particular helped me get ideas for size and shape of my own. Then I looked at hundreds of old pictures to come up with the final product.
No dice in getting the boards this weekend. I spent most of my free time figuring out if I wanted to do open grid benchwork or just a regular table top. I'm actually thinking I'm going to mostly build a plain table top but cut out where the buildings will sit do that they can be pulled off if needed. The main benefits of this are being able to take the buildings off the table and getting access to deeper sections of the layout. I'm pretty sure this is the plan I'm going to go with.
I finally managed to make some progress on the layout. Life was tricky from July-November with some health problems and some unfortunate events but things are improving and going back to normal.
On with the good news! I have been busy getting a table started:
I still have the yard and the other end of the table to go but we're looking at the end of the layout that will have the blast furnaces, blowing engines, and hopefully the boiler house. The steam may come from an off layout location (maybe I could ship buckets of it in!). I used steel tee nut inserts (McMaster #90975A312) and swivel leveling mounts (McMaster #6111K148) at the end of my legs to compensate for decades of settling. I still need some more of those square for the floor but that's easy enough to add later. Those are 1x3's under 23/32 plywood. It's surprisingly sturdy. I'm going to add a leg to the middle for good measure. I'll be climbing up there for scenery and derailments.
I've also been hard at work on the CAD side of things. The 3D printers was broken for a bit but now I'm printing almost around the clock.
This is where I'm at with the blast furnace model at the moment. I went down to the Carrie Furnace Tour in Swissvale/Pittsburgh, PA and took tons of photos. It was just what I needed to make some major progress on this model design. I never saw/experience a blast furnace for myself in person and this was very helpful. I would recommend the tour to anyone.
I'm starting to print all the pieces to figure out what details I'll be able to include and whether or not layer lines will be an aesthetic problem. So far, I'll have to put some with some lines but I suspect it will be worth it. The sum of the model will outshine the small problem details. We'll see!
I'm also unsure of the functionality of printed parts. I'm not planning to print the inner double bells themselves but I do hope to animate the lifting levers for the double bells. I never printed anything that had to slide past other parts so it'll be interesting to attempt. The links on that mechanism need resized to be more scale in appearance but I have one basic drawing from the early 1900s to work off of and it doesn't really show how everything is linked together so I had to guess at most of the connective bits. Overall, I'm pleased with the model even thought it still needs polishing in some spots.
No ideal what the next steps are exactly. I have to build some mountains against the backdrop and that's probably where I'll start. I also need to take down the test layout. I have to decide if I want to put foam over the plywood for terrain or just leave it plywood and use a sound deadening roadbed. I wanted the foam to make subtle dips and whatnot but my track plan is very dense and I don't think I'll really gain much by having the foam as it turns out.
That's all I got for an update at the moment. I'll post some more as the prints finish and track starts getting laid!
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Glad that things have worked out for you and that you’re back at it again. The backdrop turned out very nice too. Looks like you have a floor assistant in the first photo.
Jay
I’m glad you got things going! Jay beat me to it commenting on the assistant. I thought he or she was the building inspector.
I have seen numerous photographs of the Carrie Furnace but haven’t been there. It is great to have one nearby that can be toured!
Bill,
First of all I'm glad YOU are doing better. You, being a young buck, are a reminder to us all to take care of ourselves. The trains will be there when we come back from following the doctor's orders. The settling of the floor is a fact of life but I like your adjustment to make it work.
The tour sounds excellent, especially with the changes in the steel manufacturing business. Surprisingly enough, I have heard of few of such tours around the country. As a wonderful structure builder we all know once said, "Blast furnaces are sexier than the present steel making facilities".
I'm sure as you move along the next steps will come to you. I am anxious to see what you decide with the tabletop and your mountain build. Anyways, keep the progress coming. Steel mills are still in the minority in O Scale so you will have a gem.
Dave
@Tranquil Hollow RR and @Mark Boyce Arlo is always on the scene making sure every last detail has been inspected. He cracks me up! I climbed on the tables today to add some screws and he was right there behind me trying to get up on the tables. Also, I would definitely recommend a tour of Carrie if you're able the steps are rough but the grounds aren't too bad. The steps are just built narrow and steep. It's a heck of a facility though and well worth the money to visit.
@luvindemtrains Thank you. I'm glad I'm finally getting better. Not slowing down and letting people help me when I should have was a major factor in my body assigning me a break.
I leveled two of the tables today and there's nothing better than the feeling of being surprised how well your own idea works. I knew this would be effective but I wasn't expecting it be nearly perfect. I am starting to worry about the depth of the tables a bit. I can climb over top of them but I didn't realize how deep eight feet is haha I guess I'll just have to have immaculate track work to prevent those pesky derailments. I'm definitely in a hurry to get a completed loop so I can stretch the legs on my bigger steamers. But there's 20 more feet of table to build before I'm there.
There is another tour called the Sloss Furnaces in Alabama (I believe). It's similar to the Carrie Furnaces but much more complete as far as I know and also a slightly different operation. As you know, our mills here were VERY densely packed along rivers. Sloss is more spread out as far as I know. Either way, the tour and the hours of research have been a very enjoyable part of the layout and I'm almost sad that the research side is coming to an end. Luckily, there will be interesting projects coming up such as animating those beams up top for the double bell, building a working overhead crane that I can drive, emptying the coal cars on the high line, and completing light animations for the flow of liquid iron/slag. I just enjoy historical research a lot! Those tasks will be fun but not in the same way.
I can imagine the steps in the Carrie Furnace, Having worked most of the first half of my working days for a power company! The steps were always treacherous as a 20 to 40 year old. Actually, just the exercise I need. Yes the grounds look great from photographs.
I have heard of the Sloss Furnace In Birmingham as I recall. Birmingham, the Pittsburgh of the South as my geography teacher called it. That was in the ‘60s, steel was king, and none of us knew how soon that would change.
With 3D printing, I’m sure you will make a great looking steel mill!
Bill,
I certainly understand your anxiety to run trains. Coming to this forum doesn't help matters either. However, if you are thinking about the width of your table work don't let that inner feeling go unaddressed. There is nothing worse than getting to scenery and wishing you would have made the modifications you thought of. I'm not sure if you plan to build another layout in the future but as you know, accessibility becomes more important as you age. If I ever do it over this will be the main consideration as my current layout will not work for me in my future years. Everytime I have to crawl, climb, duck, and bend it's a reminder of this necessity but inconvenience.
Yes, research can be fun especially when it allows you connect the dots from what you have already learned. As you and Mark both stated the other tour I was speaking of is in Birmingham, Alabama. Shamefully, I only live 2 hours away and have never been there but will need to make a trip. Mark, if Birmingham is the Pittsburgh of the South, that's another reason I need to visit. Pittsburgh is one of my favorite cities and the railroad is about 85% to blame for it. I believe one of the divisions of the NMRA in that area have had tours of the steel mill as part of a layout tour event. From what I understand, they have created artwork out of some of the steel mill components. Joey Ricard(trackside scenery on YouTube), did a brief tour of it.
Dave
Dave, I only live an hour and a half from Carrie Furnace and I have never been there. 😄 I don’t know if Birmingham has or had any similarities to Pittsburgh other than having lots of steel mills. I saw a video but don’t know if it was Joey.
Bill - fabulous progress!!!
And I admire your bravery and tenacity in doing an O scale blast furnace. Can't wait to see it in person.
George
I'm definitely measuring again to double check my access panels. Mainly in the back corner as that will be under a mountain. Crawling over the table or using a topside creeper isn't as intimidating to me as contorting myself under a layout. Don't forget there's a dream of a lower level too. It just wouldn't take up the same footprint as the upper level, so access hatches would be unaffected.
I would strongly encourage anybody to go to Sloss or Carrie. It might be different for you guys but I never saw industry of that scale. We just have some old buildings left in Youngstown but seeing miles of pipe and wondering just how anybody ever learned which valve to turn and what chain to pull really is incredible. Even if you can't do the steps, it's worth going to see. I think the staff at Carrie would understand if you said you didn't want to make it up the steps. The uneven ground around the furnace is also rough but I think it's doable.
@G3750 thanks! I'll be posting pics of the ugly test version in the next few days or when the parts are done. I accidentally bought silver filament instead of gray so every last blemish shows up. But it looks good enough to pass as a test piece as I try to get the print speed figured out. Also, don't forget that this is an 1890s design. Blast furnaces from the 1950s to the present are pushing 3-4 feet tall in 1/48th scale. I'm sitting just over 2 feet I believe.
Tomorrow night I should have help taking the one table down. I forgot to trim it to size in all my excitement. But a 4x8 sheet of plywood with 1x3s glued/screwed to it is just too much for me to safely move myself. After that, the test layout needs to come down. I'm starting to get a feel for the correct sequence of events here.
Started the track today. I'm just trying to lay it out at the moment to get a feel for where things will sit. I did the track plan in Anyrail so I want to make sure that it looks as good from the side of the bench work, as it does from overhead in a program.
I also want to get some track connected so I can put the rolling stock from the test layout on there so I can take the test layout down.
Just for fun, here is a video of a cut-away of the double bell system on the blast furnaces. I'm hoping to animate them with a small electric motor. I have some work ahead of me figuring out how to 3D print all these parts because they have some pockets that will be difficult for my printer to print. I also will have to learn how to size up holes for axles and bearings if I decide to go with bearings.
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.Bill, that is really impressive. I have no doubt that you will make it a reality. One suggestion would be to chronicle your efforts for when your layout is featured in the magazine; it will make the process easier for you. In turn, it will be a learning experience for all of us.
Jay
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
I hope I can finish the layout enough to be featured one day. You mean like take more photos and notes?
Keep a journal for yourself. Not that I will ever be published but I keep a copybook in the train room. In it I note some of the things I did, what was tried and used or rejected. I also record insights and assistance from others. As time goes on, it meshes together, you may not recall some pertinent details. Before, during, and after photos are always a help and a good remembrance.
Bill,
There is something about seeing track pieces being laid out on bare benchwork. I guess it is very suggestive of being close to running trains. You have some great ideas for your layout. Stay focused, pace yourself, have fun, and the rest will come. Thanks for the update.
Dave
@Tranquil Hollow RR gotcha. I understand now. I have taken photos so far but I think I will keep a journal now. Especially since there's a possibility I'll built another layout in the future.
@luvindemtrains thanks Dave! Keep the videos coming. That's a major inspiration behind my layout.
Bill, I agree, it is good to get some track down and see how the plan shapes up. The bell system looks quite impressive in the plan!
Jay, that is a great idea to document as you build. I have done some, but not as much as I should!
@Mark Boyce thanks Mark. It took me a number of hours to work backwards from a 1904 article describing the features of a newly rebuilt furnace in Youngstown. It's pretty rewarding now to be at the part where I try to build it.
I guess I could post an update for today. I've started the final prototyping of the furnace body and cast house. There are over 175 parts to the blast furnace, stoves, and skip hoist together so I'm coming up with a bill of material for it to keep everything straight in case people were interested in purchasing these. That also means coming up with final versions of the g-code files. It's exciting to see get to this point although I wonder how many delays are hiding ahead of me. Now I understand why new products take so long to develop! It's wild to realize I plan to fit three of these blast furnaces on the layout and I might be looking at 200+ part assemblies per furnace...so up to 600 parts overall! 
After the blast furnace design are proven out on the printer, I'll start on the blowing engines and boilers. Then it's onto the open hearth. Good times 
Tonight I'm also planning to migrate the rolling stock and engines on the test layout over to the permanent layout. This will let me start clearing the basement and that will make it significantly easier to working on the layout and I'll be able to start coming up with a floor plan for the space I want to put in the basement that will provide seating for operating sessions.
Bill, I admire your vision. That is going to be a unique and impressive display.
Jay
Thanks @Tranquil Hollow RR I hope it works out!
Bill just reviewed some of your recent updates. Looks like things are starting to fall into place for you. I signed up to follow.
@Jstewart204 thanks! I appreciate it!
Pretty solid weekend of model railroading. I went down to forum sponsor CT McCormick and picked up my new Legacy 0-6-0 and some track. The locomotive is pretty awesome! I'm planning to use it to pull slag and hot metal duty at the blast furnaces.
I started putting the track down today. It's not really a permanent install.
Here are two opposing views of a cluttered beginning. This is the longest stretch of track the 4-12-2 and 2-10-10-2 have ever ran on. Pretty awesome! It was a real smoke show. The exhaust system I installed worked pretty well. I can't smell a thing upstairs or even in the basement. The noise of the suction is a bit noticeable but it's worth it to be able to enjoy the smoke features I love without dealing with lingering smells. I like smoke...but I don't necessarily want it to become part of the house.
The center to center distance is 4.5" at the tightest and 7.125" maximum. Somehow, the 2-10-10-2 doesn't hit the long boxcar I have or the 4-12-2. I was putting the track down and started assuming I would need to adjust the track plan but everything clears so far. I'm surprised. I'll keep testing though.
The innermost track is an addition for a helix I hope to install later on.
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Don’t you like it when plans come together? 👍🏻👍🏻
I do. I did remember today that I wanted to put steel window screen down on the layout to conduct Legacy signal for both levels. So I'll have to do a bit of back tracking. I'll cut the screen to do around the track probably rather than pull the track up.
The layout sticks 9 feet off the back wall (opposed the transformer in the first pic). Hopefully I'll get that piece cut tonight or tomorrow. The replacement parts for the 3D printer are supposedly in my mailbox right now so that will probably be priority number one!
That’s good you remembered about the window screen now. I find it is so easy to get ahead of myself! 🤪
I mainly use DCS, so I don’t need to worry. I have a TMCC base connected so I can run TMCC and Legacy engines with the DCS remote. I noticed that a TMCC engine will run right through a short ‘tunnel’ without a problem using the DCS remote, but the engine can shut down if I run it with the TMCC remote. It had Mr scratching my head for a while, then I realized what was going on. 😄
I have DCS as well. I only have one engine (Railking Triplex) for it though.
Did the TMCC signal just fail to get through the tunnel?
Yes, that is what it appears to me, that the TMCC signal failed in the tunnel.
Interesting. I wish I understood more about how it works. I've just been told the window screen is a good way to improve the signal quality on large layouts.
The only thing I know is the Lionel signal goes through the air, and the MTH signal goes through the rails. Neither is better or worse, you just have to know how to apply it! 🤷♂️
Bill, seems I’ve read somewhere here on the forum that an actual earth ground screen can be too much, ie overwhelm the other half of the Legacy/TMCC signal transmitted through the outside rails. Also read that @gunrunnerjohn recommends instead using a single earth ground wire run above the tracks where reception is an issue. Placing this earth ground wire above the locomotive’s antenna works better than beside the track. Perhaps he can explain it better.
Bill, not sure why you need the screen wire. Most layouts only have issues when they are double decked or running inside a tunnel with metal wire for support. I had an issue in just one spot. In a long tunnel. I held up some bare copper wire to the underside of my upper road bed with some plastic clips. Above the track with the issue. Soldered a hookup wire to the end and ran it to my electrical outlets earth ground. I was new to TMCC with just 2 engines. One would stall in a 2 foot area as it passed under a yard area.
@SteveH when you say above the track, do you mean near the ceiling? It sure would be awesome if I just need to run some 12 gauge wire in a loop at the ceiling!
@Dave_C the double decking is in the plans down the road. I most definitely would rather put a piece of wire alongside/under the track than go buy window screw rolls.
Bill, this is what I did. Not sure if the bends were really needed. Most just run it straight over the track. May be of some benefit though if multiple tracks are involved.
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I'll have to remember this if I have signal issues on my staging level. Thanks @Dave_C
Bill nice work on the track test and getting your equipment to clear.
If possible. It might make more sense to get your track laid and do a test run to see if you even have issues.
Not every layout has signal issues.
Tmcc gets 1 side of the signal from the base via the outer rails of the track. The other side is broadcast from the ground wiring in the walls of your train room via the ground lug on the base wall wart.
The difference in these two signals represents a specific command.
Here's an informative video that the MTH Parts guy😉 made regarding tmcc signal and ground plane issues.
@Jstewart204 thanks!
@RickO I won't be able to test both levels any time soon. I just don't have the cash for the wood and track at the moment. I suppose I could always staple the window screen to the underside of the top deck if I did have problems. What do you think of that as a back up plan? And also, is the difference between the two signals just a difference of frequency? I will watch the video tomorrow!
@BillYo414 posted:@Mark Boyce thanks Mark. It took me a number of hours to work backwards from a 1904 article describing the features of a newly rebuilt furnace in Youngstown. It's pretty rewarding now to be at the part where I try to build it.
I guess I could post an update for today. I've started the final prototyping of the furnace body and cast house. There are over 175 parts to the blast furnace, stoves, and skip hoist together so I'm coming up with a bill of material for it to keep everything straight in case people were interested in purchasing these. That also means coming up with final versions of the g-code files. It's exciting to see get to this point although I wonder how many delays are hiding ahead of me. Now I understand why new products take so long to develop! It's wild to realize I plan to fit three of these blast furnaces on the layout and I might be looking at 200+ part assemblies per furnace...so up to 600 parts overall!
After the blast furnace design are proven out on the printer, I'll start on the blowing engines and boilers. Then it's onto the open hearth. Good times
Tonight I'm also planning to migrate the rolling stock and engines on the test layout over to the permanent layout. This will let me start clearing the basement and that will make it significantly easier to working on the layout and I'll be able to start coming up with a floor plan for the space I want to put in the basement that will provide seating for operating sessions.
You're killing it, son. You're killing it. 
George
