See news story in following link.
If MTH and Lionel ship containers loaded with their products over the Chinese Yiantian International Container Terminals at the port of Shenzhen, some of our orders showing December shipping dates may be on the bottom of the Pacific.
Curt
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Ouch. That often used phrase, "...it's on the water..." most definitely does not apply here. 
I picked up a load of hazardous chemicals in NJ once, the plastic blue drums were all wet. I called the trucking company office and told them that it looks like the drums were leaking. They weren't leaking, they were thawing out. This load of chemicals was in a freezer container across the ocean, it had to be frozen when on the water. If the container fell off the ship, the chemical would stay frozen at the bottom of the ocean. This stuff was highly toxic, flammable, corrosive, breathing in fumes would result in death, burn your skin off if the liquid touched it.
"No problem. Fish out the trains, apply a little light oil, and you're good to go." - Louis Marx
IT'S NOT A BAD THING for MTH or Lionel IF all of the merchandise was insured!.
It's just bad for us!
Anything due in December most likely was in an earlier shipment.
@MartyE posted:Anything due in December most likely was in an earlier shipment.
Marty:
I sure hope so! My son an I are both waiting on engine orders.
Curt
Not knowing anything about this industry, can someone explain what this means for the company waiting on the shipment. I would assume that the cargo is cataloged and tracked and that the receiving company will know of the loss almost immediately.....true or untrue?
Peter
The tooling to the scale milk cars was on board!
Jon 
The short answer to Peter's question is that until the ship gets to port (in this case returns to port in a week or so) and they catalog and inspect the containers left, they will not know which containers are missing. Further, the shipping company may only know the name of the freight forwarder and not the actual name of the company that filled the containers or will receive the containers. Some of that might appear in customs documents, but a container of model trains may be listed as some "generic" contents for customs purposes. For example, a container of power tools may be described as that. It will not say whether the tools are drills, saws, sanders, etc. Additionally, there would often be tools with various product labels. Even if the container is listed as containing toy trains, since it would be shipped by a factory to a customs broker at the port, MTH/Lionel would not know for sure what is missing.
The consignees Insurance Company is probably most interested since the money has likely transferred under a "letter of credit" once the items were shipped.
@MartyE posted:Anything due in December most likely was in an earlier shipment.
My first (and optimistic) thought also.
I have at least four of those "December arrivals."
Well the roll must have been a good one!
@johnstrains posted:My first (and optimistic) thought also.
I have at least four of those "December arrivals."
My "December arrivals" were initially "March arrivals". 
I've given up on 2020 deliveries.
Some of those TEU's will or should have tracking units installed.The ones carrying hazardous will most likely have them. The real danger now is to other vessels that strike the half submerged ones.
Fishing vessels and small craft will not stand a chance if they strike one. The ones that wash up ashore will probably not contain anything use able by the salvors.
Gunny
Well the LCCA CHRISTMAS cars are not in those. They have arrived at the Business office and are being shipped to members ASAP.
If you have not ordered there is a small amount remaining for sale. Don't miss out on this car.
SAL GAMBINO/PRESIDENT ELECT.
@gunny posted:Well the roll must have been a good one!
Gunny:
When I saw the photo first thing this morning; my first thought was the scene in A PERFECT STORM where a container ship (the Aeolis, I think) is struck by a rogue wave, rolls and dumps a bunch of containers over the side.
Curt
The heck with the train items, I am glad that by all accounts I've found there were only a couple minor injuries of the crew members on the ship
EscapeRocks: I was thinking just what you said when I read the breaking news.
It's time for trains to be Made in the U.S. of America again just like Lionel used to put on their products with pride when they were manufactured in Irvington, NJ.
@gunny posted:Well the roll must have been a good one!
WOW! This might explain all the new units that show up with broken off parts!
@Lad Nagurney posted:The short answer to Peter's question is that until the ship gets to port (in this case returns to port in a week or so) and they catalog and inspect the containers left, they will not know which containers are missing. Further, the shipping company may only know the name of the freight forwarder and not the actual name of the company that filled the containers or will receive the containers. Some of that might appear in customs documents, but a container of model trains may be listed as some "generic" contents for customs purposes. For example, a container of power tools may be described as that. It will not say whether the tools are drills, saws, sanders, etc. Additionally, there would often be tools with various product labels. Even if the container is listed as containing toy trains, since it would be shipped by a factory to a customs broker at the port, MTH/Lionel would not know for sure what is missing.
The consignees Insurance Company is probably most interested since the money has likely transferred under a "letter of credit" once the items were shipped.
Thank you....Peter
Yes indeed; I am certainly glad no one was injured!!!!
When seeing photographs of loaded container ships either in port or at sea, I have often wondered how they withstand heavy storms. I had thought that the the containers may be linked to each other in the stack and adjacent stacks, but it doesn't look like it from the photograph of the dumped over containers.
I am waiting on a 6-pack of Premier Western Maryland 2-bay hoppers and two AIUs, but was not expecting them until well into next year anyway. Also, with the question marks about the future of MTH, I am prepared for them to not ever arrive.
As an aside, I see there are some loads of K-Line trains in that jumble of containers in the above photograph! 
Just think how realistically weathered your trains are now!!!
@dk122trains posted:Just think how realistically weathered your trains are now!!!
All that ocean salt will rust them quickly.
@MartyE posted:Anything due in December most likely was in an earlier shipment.
I sure hope so. The 3rd Rail S.F. SuperChief cars are due to arrive now! I'm glad I only ordered the extra sleeping car.
2020 sucks. My Reading T1 may be on it or off it. I will be very sad.
If there is any MTH on that ship, you can probably kiss that order good bye.
More likely, if these are consumer goods, they would be items for sale in the spring. So patio furniture etc.
A little research on Statista shows that there are 17,000 general cargo ships in the world. The number of “ship losses” per year of container ships is 39. They didn’t define what a ship loss is. I would assume mostly stuff overboard and not a sunk ship.
So the chances that your train order was on that ship seems like, a spit in the ocean? (Rim shot)
1900 container lost. How many can one of these ships carry? I often wondered why they stack them so high above deck. Not only do waves tip a boat to the side, but the wind does too. The higher their stacked, the lower the wind speed needed to tip it.
the article says 1900 lost OR DAMAGED, so we do not know how many are actually lost at this time.
@Dave Zucal posted:1900 container lost. How many can one of these ships carry? I often wondered why they stack them so high above deck. Not only do waves tip a boat to the side, but the wind does too. The higher their stacked, the lower the wind speed needed to tip it.
Quick research indicates a container ship can carry anywhere between 12,000-20,000 40' foot containers, depending on its size. If containers were all below deck, the hull would have to be so deep I doubt the draft would clear the bottom of many ports.
Rusty
A ship loss is just that, the loss of the ship. Most are “foundered”, sunk or submerged. 41 ship losses in 2019.
ADDED: Some interesting reading at Containers Lost At Sea - 2020 Update. In 2019 226 million containers were shipped, with a recent yearly average of only 779 lost. I’d say there is a good chance our trains were not part of this recent loss.
Thousands of dollars in containers and they could't afford some ten dollar harbor freight tie down ratcheting straps😂 cheapskates.
@Lionelzwl2012 posted:Thousands of dollars in containers and they could't afford some ten dollar harbor freight tie down ratcheting straps😂 cheapskates.
They were in one of the containers that went over.
Did you know you could actually take a cruise on a cargo ship? https://www.freightercruises.com/
My brother-in-law's family did that when they moved back from Singapore to the US. The trip took awhile.
You could accompany your train orders to make sure they are not jostled during shipping! 
@Lionelzwl2012 posted:Thousands of dollars in containers and they could't afford some ten dollar harbor freight tie down ratcheting straps😂 cheapskates.
Then the entire ship would have turned on its side.
They use the same gravity that railroads us to hold containers down.
Obviously, the gravity was defective.
Rusty
Frank:
Years ago I had a chartered vessel loaded with potash headed to a three port discharge in Canada - Charlottetown, Montreal and Hamilton. When we completed loading in Houston, the captain offered me the chance to ride along. Knowing my wife would kill me if I said yes, I thanked him for the offer but declined. That ship got caught in what we now know as the perfect storm.
I flew to Charlottetown ahead of the vessel’s scheduled arrival and spent close to a week holed up in the hotel awaiting its arrival. When the ship finally arrived, I thanked God I hadn’t said yes to the ride along. The ship’s hatch covers were buckled from the force of the waves; rails along the deck were twisted and one of the onboard cranes had been lost.
I don’t mind some excitement from time to time but, that would clearly have been way more than I was looking for.
Curt
@Rusty Traque posted:They use the same gravity that railroads us to hold containers down.
Well, not quite. The containers are secured the same way they are on double-stack cars and tractor trailers, with Twistlocks. However, in extreme conditions and with heavy containers all stacked, they don't always do a perfect job.
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:I sure hope so. The 3rd Rail S.F. SuperChief cars are due to arrive now! I'm glad I only ordered the extra sleeping car.
WELL, a Happy UPdate from Scott Mann of 3rd rail in another thread, the SF have arrived. Late but arrived on 12/5/2020.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, not quite. The containers are secured the same way they are on double-stack cars and tractor trailers, with Twistlocks. However, in extreme conditions and with heavy containers all stacked, they don't always do a perfect job.
Wow! You learn something new everyday! I did not know that and always wondered. I suppose I could have looked it up, but never really had the interest. Thanks John!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, not quite. The containers are secured the same way they are on double-stack cars and tractor trailers, with Twistlocks. However, in extreme conditions and with heavy containers all stacked, they don't always do a perfect job.
Yes, thank you, John!! I'm like ConrailFan, I never bothered looking it up.
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