1947 Freedom Train and 1976 American Freedom Train - They were not the same!

Here are photos of the 1947 train running on the G&O.  The entire train is a Lionel model.  The engine came with TMCC.  The coolest feature of the train is that when the TMCC horn is activated it plays the first few bars of the national anthem instead of blowing a horn - Oh Say Can You See.

These photos were taken at a G&O 4th of July train show.  I am really looking forward to being able to host trains shows again sometime later this year.  NH Joe

To confuse the issue some more there was the 1974 "Preamble Express". This train surveyed the route for the 1975-76 AFT.

I brought up this old topic because there still seems to be some confusion between the 1947 Freedom Train (government sponsored, 7 HW cars, pulled by a brand new PA1) and the 1975 American Freedom Train (privately sponsored, 26 streamlined cars, pulled by three different rebuilt steam engines). If you are still not sure what the difference is between the FT and the AFT, please read above.

I also want to add to this discussion that the scale MTH version of the American Freedom Train is pure fantasy.  The two runs they made are just their generic streamlined passenger car sets painted in the AFT scheme.  That said, the MTH passenger set is cheap and a crowd pleaser at shows when pulled by the MTH fantasy PRR GG1 or the MTH PA1 ABA set (note: the lead PA1 is correct but there were no B or trailing A units).

Here is the MTH sets at a show several years ago.

@CAPPilot posted:

I brought up this old topic because there still seems to be some confusion between the 1947 Freedom Train (government sponsored, 7 HW cars, pulled by a brand new PA1) and the 1975 American Freedom Train (privately sponsored, 26 streamlined cars, pulled by three different rebuilt steam engines). If you are still not sure what the difference is between the FT and the AFT, please read above.

I also want to add to this discussion that the scale MTH version of the American Freedom Train is pure fantasy.  The two runs they made are just their generic streamlined passenger car sets painted in the AFT scheme.  That said, the MTH passenger set is cheap and a crowd pleaser at shows when pulled by the MTH fantasy PRR GG1 or the MTH PA1 ABA set (note: the lead PA1 is correct but there were no B or trailing A units).

Here is the MTH sets at a show several years ago.

@CAPPilot - Agree. I think the Lionel series is the closest to the real thing (the 1975-1976 train).

Still waiting for Lionel to manufacture the remaining cars. I currently have 17 in the collection. The remaining cars were the flat bed cars that carried many of the small buildings.

Lionel didn't think through the horn on their AFT Alco. They should have used a regular single chime horn for the horn function and used a numbered key of the extended 'Oh say can you see' play. Lionel said that was on the real engine. How can 1 single note horn play that?

I didn't buy the Lionel AFT loco (there were actually 3 locos that pulled the 1975-1976 AFT).

I ended up purchasing the MTH American Freedom Train 4-8-4 GS-4 Northern Steam Engine (30-1776-1).

@Chuck Sartor posted:

Lionel didn't think through the horn on their AFT Alco. They should have used a regular single chime horn for the horn function and used a numbered key of the extended 'Oh say can you see' play. Lionel said that was on the real engine. How can 1 single note horn play that?

Chuck,

This is why there is so much confusion.  The Alco was with the FT, not the AFT.  Two different trains, two different eras.

@paulp575 posted:

…Still waiting for Lionel to manufacture the remaining cars. I currently have 17 in the collection. The remaining cars were the flat bed cars that carried many of the small buildings.

At this point, I don’t think we will see any more AFT cars from Lionel.  The Showcase cars are very specific to the AFT and would require new tooling.  Not sure they could use that tooling for other projects, so building them would be a money losing effort.  Maybe a scale length aquarium car?

The three flatcars were F85s and used by many roads.  Again, new tooling but they could recoup tooling cost because of all the roads that had them plus fantasy schemes.  I am currently using Atlas’ 89’ flatcars.

The flatcar loads were 10 concession trailers or wagons, a forklift, and a 197? Blazer.  Again, all new tooling or possibly from third parties.

The tool car requires an 84’ (21”) heavyweight combine without all the windows. New tooling.  Maybe feasible if Lionel started making 20/21” HW passenger sets.  They could use one of their 18” HW cars as a stand-in which would be better than nothing.

They also need the second generator car plus the storage cars.  Lionel already has the molds for these.

I believe Lionel gave up on the effort because not that many folks were buying the whole set, and too many items left to be made require new tooling.

I hope I am wrong.

@CAPPilot posted:

Chuck,

This is why there is so much confusion.  The Alco was with the FT, not the AFT.  Two different trains, two different eras.

@CAPPilot - And to add to the confusion there was a "Preamble Express" that went around the country in 1974 previewing potential sites for the 1975-1976 AFT. The 4 passenger cars used in the Preamble Express became cars 202 thru 205 of the AFT,.

@CAPPilot posted:

At this point, I don’t think we will see any more AFT cars from Lionel.  The Showcase cars are very specific to the AFT and would require new tooling.  Not sure they could use that tooling for other projects, so building them would be a money losing effort.  Maybe a scale length aquarium car?

The three flatcars were F85s and used by many roads.  Again, new tooling but they could recoup tooling cost because of all the roads that had them plus fantasy schemes.  I am currently using Atlas’ 89’ flatcars.

The flatcar loads were 10 concession trailers or wagons, a forklift, and a 197? Blazer.  Again, all new tooling or possibly from third parties.

The tool car requires an 84’ (21”) heavyweight combine without all the windows. New tooling.  Maybe feasible if Lionel started making 20/21” HW passenger sets.  They could use one of their 18” HW cars as a stand-in which would be better than nothing.

They also need the second generator car plus the storage cars.  Lionel already has the molds for these.

I believe Lionel gave up on the effort because not that many folks were buying the whole set, and too many items left to be made require new tooling.

I hope I am wrong.

@CAPPilot - Understand and totally agree (that we probably won't see any more AFT items from Lionel.

I just wish I could buy the 2 showcase cars. I think K-Line made them, but they were only (IIRC) available as a set.

Ron - thank you and all the respondents for this thread. Very enlightening.

@Chuck Sartor posted:

Lionel didn't think through the horn on their AFT Alco. They should have used a regular single chime horn for the horn function and used a numbered key of the extended 'Oh say can you see' play. Lionel said that was on the real engine. How can 1 single note horn play that?

Point taken.  I wonder if there were additional horns inside one of the grills.  With Lionels Freedom Train Alco, the song is cute the first 5 times you play it, but then it gets pretty annoying.  Fortunately, you can quickly tap the horn button to get a brief single note horn sound.

Bob