1957 Seaboard #602 Switcher/Lionel

There are four tabs that need to slightly filed to remove the field plate from the truck frame. You can then slightly pull the gear wheel out a tad to remove and replace the gear.  It appears the non gear side of your truck frame has been slightly altered to take care of some armature shaft slop. 

Thanks very much. I plan to call Jeff at the train tender tomorrow to see if he can get the gear oray already have it. This is my 1st post war diesel. 

Once you remove that 2023-117 gear, I think you will find that the axle it rides on(part of the stamping) is worn out.

Is that a bigger problem or can it be swapped out too?

These have bearings that are steel. If you pull the wheels, remove the wheel from the non gear side. Gear P/N 2023-117.

One of the guys on the Lionel FB page pointe out  the aluminum plates on the lower gear assembly look like it's been apart b 4. I was told the engine had been stored more than used:apprently not. Hopefully fixing it won't be too big a deal.

It is a bigger problem. Those axles were swaged into the stamping. I have not done it yet(but will need to eventually) but I would punch out the old, and fabricate a new one from steel stock that is anchored either by passing through the entire truck frame or affixing with JB Weld(or both).

I would be ticked off if I hadn't have gotten the ten rolling stock too that went with this set. I guess they were worth close to the $140 I paid for all of it last week.

stew1957 posted:

This is a great view, but pull off the two pinion gears to see the axles I'm referring to.

Clayton Holland posted:

I would be ticked off if...

It's a very common wear issue with these motors, the aluminum framed MagneTraction 600 series, but it's not a fatal failure. If you can see it through, it's also a very rewarding repair, as most of the motors out there now are terrible runners, especially in one direction. When fixed, they are very capable power units. Getting the several that I have running right was a long trial & error process to pin down the problem(s), but they are beautiful runners now.

Great. It will run in reverse now but I don't want to make a bad problem worse. It was running fine the 1st few days I had it.

Get the replacement gear and check the pinion axle, if the axle is OK I can get you running like new in 20 minutes.

Here is everybody together. Rob's point is valid about the idle gear shaft can be worn. I've never have had to replace those shafts. If I had to replace them I would unstake the frame and press in new shafts. I would enjoy that job.

Thankx Gentlemen. Lionel Customer Service recommended this Forum and I'm so glad they did.

Hey Rob, do you have a part number for those two gear axle or pinion studs that the 2032-117 gears ride?  Do you know if the frame hole diameter is the same as the diameter in the gears? I am going to tear this truck down and find a way to replace those two gear axles. Jeff does not stock those axles. I have several types of gear axles/studs from the framed steamers that may be modified to work.

They were not sold separately, no part #.

Actually the part # is 262E-13. Lionel had these in stock until 3-4 years ago. They were never offered for these engines as they are too hard to replace without damaging the motor frame. This requires unstaking the whole motor frame assembly.

Thanks Chuck. I was hoping you would chime in. I am thinking of a three part tool for the press. One to stabilize the stud, two wedge inside the frame, three long drift through the hole on the other side to press the wedge into the stud to crimp on the inside frame.  As Rob pointed out if those studs, shafts or axle is worn new gears won't last long.

The only one that I know who has them in stock is Dr. Tinker.

And what's Dr. Tinker's contact info plz? 

If you have the motor running in one direction, try running the motor in forward and with a pair of test leads hold the motor in your hand so while it is running move the plastic bearing plate on the bottom of the motor to the left and right. If it now runs, cut a thin plastic or thin brass stock spacer and put it between the bearing plate and motor frame to keep it in that position. A small bead of super glue or epoxy to hold in place.

www.drtinkertrains.com

George Tebolt has them listed in stock. .75 each , drinker has them for $1.50 each with a min order of $30.00. Hey Clayton I am going to order 12 for stock. I can send you two if you want.

Thanks. There's no telling what I 'll get into when I break it down. That unevenness on those aluminum appears somebody has been monkeying with it already. Lol. I've spent so much on trains in the past 2 months maintenance is all I can concencentrate on now with a good conscious. I went a little overboard for me at Christmas.

Chuck Sartor posted:

Actually the part # is 262E-13.

That's great to know, I will insert that into the service manual pages.

I'd design an axle that passes through the frame to provide two points of support for the axle. That would distribute the thrust loads to both sides of the frame and stabilize the axle to resist the torque loads imposed upon the gear and its axle. The gear in the original design floats as an overhung moment on its axle making the swedged mount carry a lot of twist since the gear doesn't really fit in a way that transfers thrust directly to the frame side as if it were a thrust bearing. This is a long way of saying the pinion axle just can't carry the load when mounted like a rivet. Chances are really high that the axle hole in the frame is distorted beyond its ability to support the axle or gear in the proper orientation, I think you need to look for a complete replacement of the assembly if you can't perform a major restoration to the axle mounting hole.

Bogie 

OldBogie posted:

I'd design an axle that passes through the frame to provide two points of support for the axle...

I completely agree... and that's what I was alluding to in my proposal above.

That sounds like a ridicules amount of work. The gear studs don't have that kind of torque applied on them. And wouldn't the armature get in the way? How would you mount them to the aluminum motor frame?

I unstaked the frame and removed the two gears axles/pinions.  I have some new axles/pinions on order along with several of the bearing housings. Before removal I got on the axles/pinions with needle nose and there was no movement or play in the frame or axle/pinion.  I was able to leave marks from the needle nose ridges on the axles/ pinions so they are made out of soft metal. I also noticed that the worm wheel axle bearing on the gear side wobbles in the frame. This causes a lot of movement at the armature shaft worm wheel meshing. I will pull off the drive gear and reseat that bearing to the frame.

Hey Clayton, send me your address via my email in my profile so I can send you pinions. I should receive them by Wednesday.  If you are uncomfortable doing this repair send me your power truck and I will install the pinions. I have the press and dies and wheel puller.

Hi Stew1957, Would you please tell me what part numbers are you using for this rebuild? Also, who did you order these parts from? I have several of these Locomotives and believe some will need these parts. Thanks for your assistance. This is a great discussion by the way, thanks to all.

- Mike

Post Office Box 58494                                                   

Fayetteville NC 28305-8494

Thankx very much

With the worm wheel and axle bearing secured in the frame there is no slop in the assembly. The bearing housing comes out of alignment causing the armature to rub against the motor frame. By using a feeler guage between the gear side frame and the bearing housing I was able to find the shim thickness that made the motor run in forward and reverse the best. This motor needs shimmed 1.21 mm.  I then took a piece of aluminum stock and filed down to make my shim.  I made it in a "L" shape so it can hang on the edge of the frame.  I will use CA adhesive to secure shim to the frame.

Good job!

Sorry, I re-read the above posts and see that my questions were answered. Again, this is a very helpful discussion for me - I just bought a 617 in great cosmetic shape, but the motor truck will need some work. I also have a 602 and a 621 that will need similar attention.

Thanks.

- Mike

I may have to hire to do my Stew.

My 602 

I got the gear studs today and the studs do not fit. The shank that goes into the frame is to small and the gear side stud is to large to fit the 2023-117 gear. So either the part number is wrong or the vendor has the wrong part.    Hey Chuck is there any way you could recheck this part number? I asked Gearge the vendor the same thing. 

K. I will check with Mr Jeff @ the Train Tender and see what he may be able to come up with. I'm hunkered down in an ice storm so it's to be train time a day or two.