1957 Seaboard #602 Switcher/Lionel

623 posted:

The idler pinion axles on my 602 Switcher appear to be OK.  So assuming the idler pinion axles are not worn out, new pinion gears should fit tightly onto the axles with very little play or wobble. Is this a correct statement?

I checked two trucks on my parts shelf. One new, old stock, and one used in decent shape.
I don't think I'd use the word 'tightly', but I would say there is little play / wobble.

I have read recommendations that pinion gears be replaced. Unfortunately in my experience it's the pinion gear shafts that wear, as opposed to the gears.

On the other hand, most motor trucks seem to run OK with some wear/wobble on those gears.

623 posted:

The idler pinion axles on my 602 Switcher appear to be OK.  So assuming the idler pinion axles are not worn out, new pinion gears should fit tightly onto the axles with very little play or wobble. Is this a correct statement?

Yes, they should, assuming your pinion axles really aren't worn. My experience was that I had a variety of that gear, some came from ???, while others were purchased. The ones that fit the pinion axle the best and meshed with the drive wheels and the main drive gear all came from Train Tender - I recall that Jeff told me he got them as NOS from Madison Hardware. They did the job.

You say you have no wear on your pinion axle, but look closely, it doesn't take much. Here's a pic of one of mine.

Picture, if you will, the pinion gear riding on this shaft and cocked up at an angle that is parallel to the red arrows I've drawn. The wear at the end of the shaft on the left edge combined with the inward wear lower on the shaft on the right is now quite understandable. Putting a new gear on here without addressing the wear on the pinion shaft is not the best idea, yet that's exactly what I had to do. It resulted in some improvement, but there was still some "tilt" to the gear when left to run freely on the shaft. If the gear could be pressed, shoved, pushed, held toward the frame, the worn areas on the pinion axle were no longer interfering, and the gear runs true and lays flat - hence my thoughts on how to hold the gear in that position on the axle. 

It resulted in some improvement, but there was still some "tilt" to the gear when left to run freely on the shaft. If the gear could be pressed, shoved, pushed, held toward the frame, the worn areas on the pinion axle were no longer interfering, and the gear runs true and lays flat - hence my thoughts on how to hold the gear in that position on the axle. 

What do you think of the idea of putting a thin washer behind the gear so the gear runs closer to the wheel? Would that give it less room to tilt?
I have not tried this, mainly because I haven't been able to find suitable washers.

C W Burfle posted:

It resulted in some improvement, but there was still some "tilt" to the gear when left to run freely on the shaft. If the gear could be pressed, shoved, pushed, held toward the frame, the worn areas on the pinion axle were no longer interfering, and the gear runs true and lays flat - hence my thoughts on how to hold the gear in that position on the axle. 

What do you think of the idea of putting a thin washer behind the gear so the gear runs closer to the wheel? Would that give it less room to tilt?
I have not tried this, mainly because I haven't been able to find suitable washers.

That would actually be in the wrong direction - pushed outward toward the wheel, the gear will be pushed past the end of the axle allowing tilt to occur. It needs to be pushed or held inward to be fully seated on the axle.

C W Burfle posted:

623 posted:

The idler pinion axles on my 602 Switcher appear to be OK.  So assuming the idler pinion axles are not worn out, new pinion gears should fit tightly onto the axles with very little play or wobble. Is this a correct statement?

I checked two trucks on my parts shelf. One new, old stock, and one used in decent shape.
I don't think I'd use the word 'tightly', but I would say there is little play / wobble.

Totally agree!

I have read recommendations that pinion gears be replaced. Unfortunately in my experience it's the pinion gear shafts that wear, as opposed to the gears.

Mostly agree, I did see some slight improvement by just replacing the pinion gears! When the pinion gear gets such a severe tilt to it that it starts to shred/feather the edges of the main drive gear, then gear replacement is called for.

On the other hand, most motor trucks seem to run OK with some wear/wobble on those gears.

Mostly agree, keeping in mind that at some point, the wear can literally brings things to a halt.

The 600 series motor truck also suffers from armature alignment problems, both laterally and axially - in my opinion, all the ailments with this truck go back to the manufacture of the cheaper aluminum motor frame, a frame that is clearly is bendable. Lionel's own service manual says to improve performance, it's ok to dent/bend/whack the frame some more! Looking back just a couple of years to the 622 die-cast motor, it's a total winner because it doesn't bend ... even with LOTS of playtime, a good cleaning almost always brings it back to great running condition 

So when I dismantle switcher to replace the pinion gears and find that there is significant wear on the pinion axles, are they
1) Easy to replace?

2) Are they readily available?

3) Pinion Axle Part #?

Thanks

So when I dismantle switcher to replace the pinion gears and find that there is significant wear on the pinion axles, are they

Read through the thread.