OScaler1 said,"And, of course, these new steam locomotives from Lionel and MTH are absolutely GREAT! Makes me jealous :-)"
Have you seen the steamers from Sunset? I doubt it or you would have noticed the exquisite detail on them which sets them apart from the rest.
Ed
BUT, 2-Rail O scale is pretty much a dying hobby!
I hope not (and I heard it's dying now for the past 20 years, too) - I'm not old!!!
Mostly old guys like me who still love to build models and tinker with brass engines.
I feel 2 Rail O scale is a craftsman stronghold and generally populated by those of us who prefer to BUILD rather than Buy. Don't hold your breath waiting for it to die.
You're only as old as the woman you feel, 
And, I've got another 20 years of kits and scratchbuilding projects all stacked up!
Maybe this thread is NOT intended to be a discussion of ALL important factors to be considered by a new hobbyist in the very significant 2-rail vs. 3-rail decision, but if it is then I didn’t see any of the following mentioned:
Obviously I'm biased and admit I know very little about 2-rail but those would be important factors to me if i was starting over.
Bill
If you want to model Railroads as they exist in the real world, then there is no choice but
O-Scale 2-Rail.
Even the most meticulous, highly-detailed layout will lose its realism when you see that the trains are rolling on 3 rails. It's like a man in a business suit wearing thong sandals!
RipTrack
..........and admit I know very little about 2-rail......
Errr............... Yes.
Bill,
When I first built my 2 rail layout I didn't clean my track for 8 years. I just ran the trains and never had any issues. I have tunnels now and can't see in there very well to know one way or another so I got a track cleaning train I run around every few months or so. But I do have seen threads about incessant track cleaning on the 3 rail forum so I can see your particular situation applies to YOU.
I have 2 reverse loops on my layout and they are not a big deal in the scheme of things. They probably took a half hour extra at most to hook up for a lifetime of operation.
I can think of several solutions for triggering switches and signals. I would not say they are overly complicated but would take more time.
With all the time it takes to build a model railroad, those issues are pretty minimal compared to looking at the eyesore that is the center rail for the rest of my life and the life of the layout. I'd agree with others, if you like the center rail, then good for you.
Chris,
Well said!
Ed
In the days where the only thing you had were toggle switches, reverse loops, turntables, and wyes in 2-rail were an issue. Modernly, they're no big deal. If I were starting over, I'd be doing 2-rail. I'm keeping my 3-rail equipment as I can't easily find replacements, plus there are some items in my collection that I couldn't run if I converted them (too big), but almost all of my new rolling stock and locomotive purchases have been 2-rail or have scale wheels and I'm having a real good time (which is most important).
Bill
No, it's not an issue. It's a bigger issue in three rail with the roller wheels maintenance and such.
Why would a photo sensor be more complicated? Does it know what type of track you're using?
All this talk about reverse loops...I had one on my old HO layout (2-rail of course), and wiring it wasn't as difficult as remembering to throw the direction switch once the engine got in the loop. Regardless of how many rails you have, you need to know how to do some basic electrical work and there's plenty written down to solve any problem.
I keep thinking back why I went 3-rail. The main reason was I saw a 3-rail engine painted in Seaboard Air Line colors. 2nd reason was I honestly didn't know there was as much 2-rail equipment out as there was (this was when the internet really became available, back in the 90s). 3rd reason, I hadn't planned on spending more than $250 on any one item or set, now I'm trying to keep it under $750 and if GGD comes out with the SAL Silver Meteor set that limit is gonna change quick 
If I could find Mr. Peabody's "Way Back" machine maybe I'd be posting on this forum more than I do now!
I do have one 2-rail engine, but it's G scale.
As far as cost, I've seen 2-rail items on Ebay for a lower price than a lot of things in 3-rail.
In the days where the only thing you had were toggle switches, reverse loops, turntables, and wyes in 2-rail were an issue. Modernly, they're no big deal. .
I don't see an issue unless currently the flipping of a toggle switch is beyond the abilities or comprehension of today's modelers.
O tempora o mores!
In the days where the only thing you had were toggle switches, reverse loops, turntables, and wyes in 2-rail were an issue. Modernly, they're no big deal. .
I don't see an issue unless currently the flipping of a toggle switch is beyond the abilities or comprehension of today's modelers.
O tempora o mores!
Meant to mention the electronic automatic polarity handlers.
Remember, I work for the government. I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time. 
In the days where the only thing you had were toggle switches, reverse loops, turntables, and wyes in 2-rail were an issue. Modernly, they're no big deal. .
I don't see an issue unless currently the flipping of a toggle switch is beyond the abilities or comprehension of today's modelers.
O tempora o mores!
Meant to mention the electronic automatic polarity handlers.
Remember, I work for the government. I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
I'm with the Gov't and have trust issues and no sense of humor that I am aware of... I avoid the gum. You never know who's listening.
I'll take a toggle switch.....
These are not issues - they are rationalizations. Nothing wrong with rationalizing, so long as one is aware that that is what is going on.
Once you get to the point that you no longer need to justify the center rail, two rail will work just fine and do everything three rail will do. Until then, just smile and enjoy your 3- rail layout, with as many rationalizations as you need.
I suggest zero - just say "I like 3-rail track!"
These are not issues - they are rationalizations. Nothing wrong with rationalizing, so long as one is aware that that is what is going on.
Some are irrationalizations, 
If I had a daughter who wanted to marry a morally upstanding, well-educated, financially secure, handsome man who happened to have a 3-Rail, O-Gauge layout, I would forbid it.
RIPTRACK
Many times I've wished I would've went 2 rail. I have too much nice 3 rail stuff now to ever make the change.
Hell, enjoy your 3-Rail stuff. A friend of mine once said 3-Rail is FUN and by the gods IT IS! I'm a 2-Rail'er and I enjoy the modeling and putzing with the brass locos and keeping the layout is running condition. Each to his own !!!
Oscaler1 ....
Dear List,
I have been following this thread as this issue comes up every so often. What interested me most was the statement that 2Rail O scale was dying. IMHO, I am concerned for all hobbies, in general, are dying.In my community world, I have been involved with Kiwanis International for 35 years and I have seen the decline of these fine community organizations-Rotary/Lions/Kiwanis- and it boils down to a,for the most part, younger-it is all about me-generations- and the advent of the computer/social media world.
There may be a glimmer of hope for 2 railers,when we started the Strasburg show 5 years ago we had 34 tables sold. Our upcoming show in April will have approx 110 tables sold.
I can only state the facts by the participation of our 2 Rail O scale fraternity at this show.
Just my very little 2 cents. John
Why would a photo sensor be more complicated? Does it know what type of track you're using?
You missed my point: you DON'T NEED any of that extra equipment when you have an insulated outside rail.
Bill
I must say that any one believing that O Scale and or hobbies are dying. According to Hobby shows in general are breaking attendance records. The NMRA stated awhile back that O scale has grown from the 18% of the hobby to now 22%. There are more 2-rail manufactures now than ever, with the biggest growth in 2-rail. Tuesday the latest news from the upcoming Nuremburg Toy Show is that the younger generation is getting bored with video games and are now turning to "hands on" hobbies. Just some data to those who do not keep up with the news. Stephen
Two - rail has two insulated outside rails. Do you mean you are isolating one rail, then letting the train short it out? You could do that with a simple current sensor in two rail. I don't think that is more complicated than a voltage sensor at this point.
In the days where the only thing you had were toggle switches, reverse loops, turntables, and wyes in 2-rail were an issue. Modernly, they're no big deal. .
I don't see an issue unless currently the flipping of a toggle switch is beyond the abilities or comprehension of today's modelers.
O tempora o mores!
Meant to mention the electronic automatic polarity handlers.
Remember, I work for the government. I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.
Matt: But I don’t want to be REQUIRED to throw a toggle direction-control switch every time a train enters the reverse loop because I want that train to run unattended through that reverse loop while I’m busy doing something else like unloading or switching cars on a train on a different part of the layout.
Now, will those “electronic automatic polarity handlers” let you run your train unattended through a reverse loop without stopping it or having to manually throw the direction switch, like you can in 3-rail? If so then that is indeed a real significant advancement to eliminate what I remember as being a major stumbling block with 2-rail. How much do they cost?
Bill
.........and it boils down to a, for the most part, younger - it is all about me - generations.....
Nailed it, except that the entitlement song - me... me.... me... - sadly exists in a number older folks albeit to a lesser extent.
There may be a glimmer of hope for 2 railers,when we started the Strasburg show 5 years ago we had 34 tables sold. Our upcoming show in April will have approx 110 tables sold.
I can only state the facts by the participation of our 2 Rail O scale fraternity at this show.
And, an excellent show it is, too! I think in part that is also due to a convergence of location, cost(s), and management. When all of the variables come together right, good things can happen.
I'm just wondering when the Strasburg fire dept. is going to build on an addition for the train show!!! 
Now, will those “electronic automatic polarity handlers” let you run your train unattended through a reverse loop without stopping it or having to manually throw the direction switch, like you can in 3-rail? If so then that is indeed a real significant advancement to eliminate what I remember as being a major stumbling block with 2-rail. How much do they cost?
Bill,
Yes, you simply hook up 4 extra wires to the electronic device as you would with a toggle and run your train through the loop. You don't have to flip any switch and you don't have to stop the train or nuttin'. No fuss, no muss. Last time I checked they cost 35 bucks, not much considering a freight car can cost more these days. This is not new. They have been available for at least 15 years.
These are the types of myths that have been perpetuated by 3 railers for years, and low and behold, we've got the ringer on the line in YOU here. I thought you were stringing us along, but you really don't know much about what is going on in 2 rail.
Why would a photo sensor be more complicated? Does it know what type of track you're using?
You missed my point: you DON'T NEED any of that extra equipment when you have an insulated outside rail.
Bill
I can't waste my time arguing with you.
For me it all comes down to the unrealistic appearance of a third rail. Take any of the images posted of the better 3 rail layouts and consider how much more realistic the scene would look if the track was 2 rail.
That third rail is an unfortunate vestige of 100+ year old toy train manufacturing decisions. If you want to collect and run toy trains go for it - but if you want to build and operate a model railroad that looks reasonably close to the real thing IMO 2 rail is the way to go.
Ed Rappe
What do you like about a picture like this one?
( I know, a easier reverse loop!)
If you want to model heavy duty mainline railroading in 2-rail with big steam and long freight and passenger cars then by all means go for it...and by all means take some pictures of your giant layout with 72" radius curves and large turnouts. I truly enjoy seeing those layouts, and I envy those of you who have the space.
If you want to model heavy duty mainline railroading in 3-rail with big steam and long freight and passenger cars then by all means go for it...and please take lots of pictures of your (not necessarily) large layout and all of your turnouts (you can fit more of them into your space).
i truly enjoy seeing those beautiful 3-rail layouts, and there are more of them out there, because more of you have room to achieve your goals.
Just be aware of two things--
The third rail just eats away at some people, and they will do their best to make you feel inadequate. This probably won't bother you that much, because you will still have a beautiful 3-rail layout, and it will actually fit in your basement.
The second thing is much more serious--by building that 3-rail layout you are giving up the chance to marry Shallow Hal's daughter. Somehow you must learn to carry on in spite of that...
Jeff C
Wake up, Martin...you'll glue your fingers together.
Jeff C
Yes, please. I can't wait to see more of some O-31 circles with trains running at warp speed!
Wake up, Martin...you'll glue your fingers together.
Jeff C
Nodded off from the excruciating boredom of this topic.
Gluing my fingers together would at least be constructive.
I'm going in my shop, crank up some Deep Purple or Rainbow, and build something....
So if these folks are happy with three rail trains, why do we feel the need to convince them otherwise?
I am semi-guilty of that sort of thinking - I keep trying to convert pilots to Piper Cubs for training. But I do so knowing that most do not want to get involved at that level, preferring a new Cirrus with three axis autopilot and parachute.
I make a joke out of it - I call it proselytizing.
As far as I can tell someone asked a question of 2 railers on a 2 rail forum.
I don't give a frog's fat butt if they like 3 rail or 2 rail and don't care about converting anyone. But if someone is going to make statements out of ignorance, they stand to be corrected.
As far as I can tell someone asked a question of 2 railers on a 2 rail forum.
I don't give a frog's fat butt if they like 3 rail or 2 rail and don't care about converting anyone. But if someone is going to make statements out of ignorance, they stand to be corrected.
Is there an emodicon thing for falling off my chair and LMAOF?
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