20x20 single level O scale Layout min O-54 New Layout

Issac, really like your layout plans.  Giving you five stars for your plan of action.  Keep us posted.

Isaac, I have a couple of suggestions.    first, your  yard lead on the WYE goes directlty into a main track.    It does have the curve for a lead, but that does not seem enough to pull  your longest yard track without fouling the main.   You might look into the possibility of fitting a longer lead in that does not foul the main.

Second, I notice there is no provision for a run around move in the  yard.    All tracks are stub ended.    For any number of reasons, it is often desirable to  run around a car or caboose with your switcher for some repositioning.   You might consider adding a crossover between a couple of tracks to allow run-arounds.

You have room along the bottom of your layout for another siding staring at the last O72 curve on the left and ending at the first O72 curve on the right.

Jan

Issac, Your train room looks great as does your track plan.  There will always be adjustments to a plan as those above suggest.  That is great that your grandfather has left you with a nice collection of fine trains.  Will you and your dad be working together building the layout?  I have always been a lone building my layouts including my current one.  I would have loved it if I one of my daughters had been interested.  They are both grown and married.

I have worked out a way to have a longer lead into the yard without fouling the main, and thankfully this can be done with switches I already have the HS left turnout and a RT O-72/54 as for run around tracks in the yard I will have to look into how to work that in im sure i can but there is a door well that needs open at the end of the yard so those stub ends are maxed will update on the plan for run arounds thank you very much @prrjim for that advice. as for the siding at the bottom of the layout the Baseboard in SCARM needs work its not entirely accurate yet will post a more accurate and updated one soon just know that for the most part track is right up against the wall while still allowing for the massive overhang of articulated engines. And yes I will be building the layout with my dad. He is much better at building all the wood for the table while I will be doing the track work and wiring for the layout. I appreciate all the feedback so far thank you all

Isaac

Did not take long to find out how to add run arounds just had to shorten a couple sidings but now all the longest yard tracks that are not going to go into some kind of industry will have run arounds and thankfully all the shortened tracks will still have over 100 inches of area for rolling stock.

The new refined baseboard design has been completed, the yard board and the entire left baseboard is right up against the wall. I am probably going to have a town beside the engine yard so thats why the big open space is there.

Looking very good!!

As an operator my only suggestion is to maybe add some sidings where you can for an industry or two to add some interest to your run times.

I like the overall concept and applaud your efforts.  You are lucky to be getting such a large amount of equipment.

My 2 cents re the design (and worth every penny):

I think that the previous suggestion about adding an industrial siding or two is sound - it will add some operational interest as well as creating some scenic and structure opportunities.

I wouldn't worry about having a lot of run-around tracks in the yard - maybe just have one.  Having them greatly restricts the amount of usable track for storing a train, and you're probably going to be using the old 0-5-0 (your hand) for rearranging trains on those yard tracks anyway.

Some of your multi-track curves look like you may encounter issues with the overhang on longer locomotives and passenger cars - might need more room.  Do some testing before screwing anything down.

Keep up the good work.

Isaac- very nice layout plan. Looks like you and your dad are going to be busy for a while. When I was 18 we moved and I had to take down my 16X12 HO layout. Never built another one until a few years ago in O. You are a lucky guy. My favorite loco was a Rivarossi PRR Y6b Mallet. Love big steam!

A couple more suggestions;

Add a second track on the bottom of the passenger station. This will give you the ability to stop a train on one platform and have another leave in the opposite direction. The station could be between the tracks or below both. Looks like you have room.
As Ron said, a couple of industries in the town area will give you someplace for the trains to go. With that huge yard you could spend hours building trains, delivering loads, and returning empties to the yards. A simple Y stub with two or three buildings would work.
I would also think about adding more crossovers between the outer and middle track along the left side of the layout. This will give you more operating interest and flexibility. You could park a train on one track and have another pass on the other track. For clockwise operation this would give you a way to get a train from the middle to the outer line heading to the yard without having to go all the way around.
Just because its one level doesn't mean you can elevate a track. The outer loop along the top could rise up an inch or two and come back down as it rounds the bend on the left side.

And if switching is not your thing then you can sit back and watch the trains run those nice big loops!

Looking forward to watching the build. Good luck.

Bob

Isaac,

Looks like you are really thinking this through!  

You have 20'x20' which is a good size.   Sooner or later, you will want to run that Visionline Big Boy around the layout.  Is there a way you can work O72 minimum curves into your mainline?

Best,

George

As others have said, it's a good looking design. My $.02 would be:

1. Add a tunnel - having trains disappear and then appear is a good thing.

2. Eliminate 1 or 2 sidings and add an industry or moving accessory in the yard like an ice/coal/lumber/milk station/ramp.

3. Elevation changes add interest to the layout - even a simple incline/decline with MTH trestles somewhere along the line would add interest.

4. You have  large empty space to the "right" of the TT. What will that be used for ?

Wow what a thing to wake up too 17 notifications from OGR thank you all very much for your advice I am already looking into ways to fit in some of the advice. 

As for some of the questions, the left space to the right of the TT will be a town and about the Vision line big boy my entire outside mainline will be O-72 and that will be its track I am not sure i could still get 3 main line loops with O-72 Min I am very content with having 1 line for my giant steamers with what I want to do with the yard and turntable while still allowing for the outside door and storage door in the basement to be opened. 

I currently plan to have 4 buildings in the yard, an MTH Southern Switching tower and 3 menards lighted factories, the Morton Salt Factory and Pepsi bottling plant and An american materials plant.

I will definitely try to fit some industry into the town area, I already have an MTH freight warehouse so that will go in the town maybe another lighted Menards building.

I am a little hesitant to do any kind of grades or elevation because I have not done it before, little worried I would screw it up but I will look into it.

Thank you all very much for the advice and feedback it has all been very helpful and gave me more thinking to do about the potential of the layout.

Here are some ideas for sidings.  The trade off for more operational ability is less room for scenery, so you need to make a choice.  But having a siding on the main line away from the yard will provide a lot of switching options.

Isaac,

I have too much time on my hands these days so I hoe I spent it profitably.  I recreated the major parts of your plan in SCARM and worked on a few things that I thought could be improved.

1. I added the yard lead on the left as I had mentioned in a previous post.  It gives you a long siding for building/breaking down/storing a train.

2.  There's now a short runaround track included with your yard ladder.  When  that you had a you pull a short string of cars out of a siding, you can get behind it and push it down the yard lead to build your train.

3.  I figured that you want to be able to store you big engines about your turntable so I ensured that you had an O72 path between the turntable and outside main.  I think you had already included this.

4.  The Atlas track system is designed around 4.5" center-to-center spacing.  Your loops are now 4.5" on centers except where your O72 crossovers are located.

5.The S-curve in the upper right now uses O72, O81, and O90 curves.

6. The S-curve in the inner loop has been straightened using larger curves.

7.There are now two )72 accesses to the turntable.  The long one has space for coaling and watering.

I'm also including a pdf of Possible track lengths that can be formed with Atlas sectional track.  In the rework I did not cut any track.  The ensures that there are no misalignments or kinks.  When you build it you can cut pieces to fit.

Jan

Wow, very impressive work Isaac.

My only suggestion, if you have not done so yet, is to run your layout in a simulator while you are in the design phase. I design with AnyRail and it exports TrainPlayer files. TrainPlayer is the simulator. I'm 99% sure it still has free downloads, and the demo is fully functional. I'm always surprised at how many things, good and bad, I find in the simulator. (Edit: Looks like SCARM has simulation, or at least a simulator add-on.)

I look forward to following along and watching your progress. Good luck!

Jack
___________________________________________
Perfection is the killer of "good enough"

Nice layout and great plans. You have your work cut out for you. If you need some atlas track, check out the upcoming stout auctions. Tons of Atlas track coming up And most of it appears to be new. There may be some bargains there.

I've made a couple of small changes.  A crossover has been added on the left to allow the long yard lead to function as a passing siding.  A;so, the Atlas turntable spaces the spokes tracks 15 degrees apart.  Your original plan you had a two stall engine house.  By using 1/3 O81 curve, two adjacent tracks can be made parallel.  The spacing between the tracks is set by the length of a straight track coming off the turntable.

Jan

Issac:

You're getting a lot of good suggestions from OGR FORUMites - mostly recommendations about track changes/improvements. The industries you've shown are impressive lighted buildings, but have no "action" to them.  I "second the motion" of others who have suggested action accessories that mimic commercial buildings in town or trackside industries. These will break up what may otherwise seem like monotonous running of trains around loops, for example:

IN TOWN BUILDINGS ...
MTH Mel's Diner   (my favorite; however, the MTH operating McDonald's drive-thru restaurant is an alternative)
MTH Firehouse
MTH Gas Station
MTH Car Wash  (you're now old enough to appreciate the attractive crew of the MTH Bikini Car Wash)
MTH Country Station  (provides a rural stop for passenger trains, so that passengers aren't merely boarding and de-boarding     from the same large downtown station)
Lionel Park accessories (not RR-related, but people-friendly: Park Swings, Pony Ride, Tug of War, Tire Swing)

TRACKSIDE INDUSTRIAL ACTION ACCESSORIES:
Lionel Culvert Unloader and Loader  (my favorite)
Lionel Forklift Lumber Unloader
Lionel Oil Drum Loader  (in my experience, the American Flyer vintage version of this nifty accessory operates better)
Lionel Oil Derrick or Oil Pumps  (goes nicely with the Oil Drum Loader)
Lionel Sawmill with Log Dump Car  (it has a convincing illusion of "sawing" logs - fascinating to watch)
Lionel Barrel Loader Ramp and accompanying Barrel Ramp Cars.

If these suggestions bust your budget, I suggest that you add them to your Christmas and birthday wish lists for years to come.

Carry on, regardless ...

Mike Mottler      LCCA 12394

PS:  Several pix of my home layout are attached for reference with many of the buildings and accessories cited above shown in place.  My two great-grandsons (Matthew and Hudson) are Master Button-pushers for them.

Issac

You have a great space and a good start in equipment and knowledge.

My only comment is I would try to figure out a track plan that eliminates the two track duck unders or lift out sections.  You will get tired of that really quick .  You have major portions of the current plan on both sides of the duck under and derailments do occur.  You will have to get inside that area to work with the turntable spurs for sure.

Perhaps you could take that section with the three tracks and the passenger station and made it go straight out and loop all three tracks and return totaling 6 tracks.  I am sure others will have good or better ways to eliminate the duck unders also.

Charlie

Thank you all very much for your advice been working on the design a little bit to add some of the very good suggestions I have been given, will post an updated track plan tonight

Isaac,

I just took another look at this thread and realized I missed the photo of the actual basement. What an incredibly nice, roomy space! Very jealous.

I might consider "squaring" off some of the benchwork where it doesn't interfere with doors/windows. While it makes the benchwork easier, it also adds open space for scenery. I think it helps avoid "filling every square inch with track" -- but like all things railroad, this is personal taste, so do what you like.

Hope you had a good July 4th weekend.

-Jack

@Jan posted:

4.  The Atlas track system is designed around 4.5" center-to-center spacing.  Your loops are now 4.5" on centers except where your O72 crossovers are located.

FWIW, for larger articulated steamers and even larger passenger and freight cars (think auto carriers).

nice progress on your railroad. one of my favorite layouts that reminds me of yours is this one Ken designed for Rick. it's a full around-the-room layout and has a lot of interesting features including industrial sidings and switching opportunities, a turntable, and a fairly large yard parallel to the loop. lots of good ideas here.

Rick's 26'x40'

Isaac,

Congratulations on your train room and layout design!  It is very cool that you are so young and have the ability to do a layout like you're designing.  Enjoy every minute of it!  It's very cool as well that you have trains passed down from your grandfather.  My love of trains started with my dad at a young age and now he is helping me build my dream layout in my basement.  Hopefully I can pass my love of trains to my young children as well.  

Your layout design looks great!  My advice would be to listen to and heed the advice of the people on this forum.  There are some extremely knowledgeable designers and operators here and they helped me imensly work the kinks out of my design!

Try to plan as much as you can before you start building but also be flexible knowing that things might need to be modified during the process.  Take your time and you will have enjoyment for years to come!

You never know, you might find some other model train enthusiasts at your school.  It is great when younger people have a love for this hobby.  It is thr best hobby in the world in my opinion!

Looking forward to seeing your progress.  Keep us updated!!

Michael

Here is the updated plan that I was going to put in like a week ago, been busy time got away from me. We hope to start buying wood for bench work next week, currently waiting for the screened in porch to be built(almost done), cant do any work outside the basement door till its done. The new plan has a longer yard lead, run around in the yard while still maintaining over 100 inch long tracks. a high speed crossover on the wall leading into the wye, 2 industry sidings in the town, and a 4th track at the station. This week I plan to work on more final versions of the bench work. I'm sure you have all seen the Lionel Volume 2 catalog. Just so happens that the same year they come out with Vision line Gs series (something i have been wanting for a while), they come out with Legacy S1's something i have also been wanting for a very long time from lionel. I am 100% looking at that Tuscan Red S1, but that Vision Express set with those vision freight cars is such a deal. Hard to decide. I am a little hesitant on the S1 though as I heard that the last MTH S1's had problems with O-72 even though its listed as the minimum. Now I'm also wondering cause the S1 has that american railroad paint scheme and I could run that with a bunch of New York Central cars I have had for a while sitting around for a Lionel Legacy Dreyfuss to come run em, But I still have hope lionel will make a legacy Dreyfuss some day, and that tuscan red S1 is gorgeous. 

PS. I was attempting to add a raised track on the O-72 line by the passenger station as I personally dont want to have any raised sections, I am a pretty cautious operator of my trains from anything to speed to how I set them on the track and I think seeing my giant steamers on the raised section would give me far too much anxiety to run them at any speed that isnt a crawl.

Isaac, I like your track plan a lot!  I'm glad you will be able to get started as soon as the porch is done.  The S1 in the catalog looks great!  I don't run Pennsy and only have 054 curves, so it isn't a consideration.  If you are inclined to get it, remember it is a whopping 36 inches long!  Wow!  There is nothing in that catalog that suits me, so I will save money for my layout!

@Mark Boyce posted:  There is nothing in that catalog that suits me, so I will save money for my layout!

I wish I felt that about any Catalog but there is always SOMETHING that catches my eye and I say, "Hmmm well maybe" It seems my collection always leans towards giant engines like the S1, between my Big Boy, Veranda turbine, 4-12-2 or E8 A-B-As I think the 36 inch long S1 will fit right in.

Isaac, Your train room is almost twice as large as mine, so all those engines will look right at home!!  I'll be glad to see the layout as construction progresses.

Hi Isaac,

I've been thinking about your layout design (including the structures you've included) and considering some of the suggestions (very worthwhile) submitted by others.  I hope you will not feel that this is rude, but with the space you have I'd like to see you build a layout you will enjoy operationally.

First off, if you intend to run passenger trains, you should probably run them on the outer loop which has all your widest turns (except for the gentle curve at the top right).  If you do that, you will then need to shorten up your layout from top to bottom so that the passenger station and platforms can be on the outside of the loop.  This also gives you the option to include a few short sidings near the station for "express" service (cars dropped off and picked up by passenger trains) and/or a team track (used to deliver various types of merchandise to multiple businesses) service.

But, here's the big change.  Expand your three ovals to go all the way around the room and put your yard and engine facility on a large peninsula (can be 4 to 6 feet wide and be very long) that extends from the left side of your plan.  With this change, you could actually have at least 3 passenger stations (your original, one on the peninsula (main station??), and one at the bottom of the plan (again, on the outside oval).  You can also have a freight train pull all the way into the yard, uncouple the engine, run around the train and enter the engine service facility without fouling the loops.

Finally, and this is the coup de gras, you will still have your wye entrance to the peninsula, but to keep it on the O72 curve minimum line, it will now have to cross the inner two loops.  This will require a tower operator to protect the trains entering and leaving the yard / passenger station, some interesting trackwork, and even some train signal operation controlling the routes through the wye maze.

As always, just suggestions, not intended to be hurtful.  Whatever you decide, enjoy your build.

Chuck

So it has been a particularly busy morning. Was doing some measuring this morning and found out I was gonna have overhang problems in the yard. Took me about 10 minutes to workout a fix with more clearance between the wall and track. But I had a thought while fixing it that maybe I could get 0-72 min in more areas of the layout. This came about due to my consideration to buy the new Pennsy S1 and how good it would look with the Big Boy running side by side. So for the last maybe hour I have completely redone the main line of the layout while still sticking to the table i had set up.

the minimum curve on the 3 mainlines are O-72 with max O-108 some siding and yard tracks still have o-54 but now the entire main line is min O-72.

I think this will be the final track variation of the layout, it has everything I want and that I can do with the restraints in the room. I appreciate all the input and suggestions from others even if I didn't completely change the design to the many different suggestions every single one of you who gave me advice have influenced the design for the better. Much like running my trains in loops and having many run at once with this I can run 3 of my largest engines at once and just sit back and watch. Attached are the designs from my very first layout and the layout my grandfather had In his basement that ran my cousins (now mine) trains. the double loops were in the ceiling of the house I was born in and my grandfather and my dad built that when I was born for me and my older brother. Both of these but mostly the one in my grandfathers basement with the 6 loops inspired how I now run my trains, we would have all 6 engines blazing and racing each other it was tons of fun to just watch them run around the loops.

I will post more updates as we start work on the tables in the coming weeks.

Just wondering but is it in the budget/do you have the space available to use a larger turntable than the Atlas one? The Atlas turntable is only 24". At some point you may want to turn your Big Boy or S1 with the turntable rather than by hand. You'll want a 34" turntable to fit the Big Boy or S1. 

@Lou1985 posted:

Just wondering but is it in the budget/do you have the space available to use a larger turntable than the Atlas one? The Atlas turntable is only 24". At some point you may want to turn your Big Boy or S1 with the turntable rather than by hand. You'll want a 34" turntable to fit the Big Boy or S1. 

It is budget limiting me to the atlas 24 inch I would like to keep it spaced out enough from the mainline to eventually get a 34 inch but for now I will just have to turn the Big Boy on the Wye.

you can see from the circle that in the current position of the atlas turntable i should be able to fit a 34 inch in the future

I just noticed this thread.  What caught my eye is the 20X20 dimensions (the same as my main layout).  I just skimmed through the replies so I apologize if I missed this, but I’m wondering why you are limiting yourself to a single level. A second level adds a lot of interesting action and with 20X20 it is doable.  My upper level (in red) ranges from 6” to 3” above the first and one loop on the lower level goes from 0” to meet the upper level at 3”.

My only advice is make sure you have room between tracks and tracks/wallss for train OVERHANG! Big boy and 21" cars have overhang. My 21" cars ran fine but my DDA40X created major problems. I believe it has a bigger overhang than the Big Boy!

As for the turntable, I bought a Miller Studios one and I can say two things, EXPENSIVE and SO WORTH EVERY PENNY I SCRAPED TO BUY IT! I put in a 32" just for turning large Locomotives and it is the most awesome thing and the indexing is amazing. YOU control the spacing for indexing. Just unbelievable.

@Lehigh74 posted:

 I’m wondering why you are limiting yourself to a single level. 

I am limiting myself to a single level because with the design I would like to have and because of the lower cieling in the basement also the doors i need to have open the design isnt fully a 20x20 square, and I would prefer to not have many areas of extremely wide table cause my last layout had that and I was not a fan of having to climb up onto it to get access to stuff on the far side, thats why the only wide table in this new plan is accessible from both sides. and I dont really want a 2nd level that will hide main level of track. Very complicated reasons but its just my personal taste and hesitance to do it honestly. 

@CurtisH posted:

My only advice is make sure you have room between tracks and tracks/wallss for train OVERHANG!

Overhang has been one of my biggest concerns almost entirely cause of the vision big boy, I remember reading that it had an overhang of 3 1/2 inches on O72 curves so im making sure i have atleast 4 inches where O-72 is near the walls. I am also looking at the 34 inch Mill house river studio turntable but that sure is an expensive one, might have to keep the atlas for another year or 2 

I also have a question about MTH making the DCS remote, my old TIU from like 2013 has some problems and 2 channels are broken so I was looking to get it replaced with a newer one and I decided to get a backup DCS remote too but apparently they dont make the DCS remote anymore? have they fully switched over to Wifi running trains? I really hope not cause the DCS wifi app is really not good in my opinion was wondering if anyone had any info on this. Also does anyone know where I could find one of the modern TIUs with USB port to buy all the ones i found are the old style from like 2014 and earlier. Thanks in advanced 

PS I am aware MTH is on course to closing down but I had no clue they were just gonna get rid of DCS in favor of an app if they didnt close that seems like a massive mistake

@acrking76 posted:

 

I also have a question about MTH making the DCS remote, my old TIU from like 2013 has some problems and 2 channels are broken so I was looking to get it replaced with a newer one and I decided to get a backup DCS remote too but apparently they dont make the DCS remote anymore? have they fully switched over to Wifi running trains? I really hope not cause the DCS wifi app is really not good in my opinion was wondering if anyone had any info on this. Also does anyone know where I could find one of the modern TIUs with USB port to buy all the ones i found are the old style from like 2014 and earlier. Thanks in advanced 

PS I am aware MTH is on course to closing down but I had no clue they were just gonna get rid of DCS in favor of an app if they didnt close that seems like a massive mistake

Some parts for the remote (50-1002) are hard to come by or obsolete.  MTH bought up all the parts they could and changed some that they couldn’t get.  The new PN for the remote (with changed parts) is 50-1038.  It was scheduled for April release, but in think it’s now September.