2227010 Strasburg Paradise Observation issues

I commented on the other post that a person who posted on FB had fixed his. The problem he was faced with was when he had to put it back together in that two things became an issue. One was the capacitor, and the other was the wiring needing a jumper or such to connect. The capacitor the poster had bent it slightly so he could get the roof back on, the wires I believe he did something to make the connection. He did not post an interior pictures so I could only go by what he was saying. Being that I read that this morning just after 6, sort of lost a bit of the short term memory.

It does stink, but maybe it isn't that hard of a fix for those that tinker a bit. Me, I would probably rip something out that would just cause me more problems.

I was the Fb poster who made the correction. Unfortunately I did not take any pictures while the car was apart.

The following is my description of what I did to make the correction. Now the interior and windows are in the right locations...and the lights still work:

This is the way I corrected the problem with the new Lionel Philadelphia and Reading Observation car:
In order to correct the improperly placed car interior, the metal car floor as well as the interior assembly must be reversed. There is a rectangular hole cut on the metal floor which accommodates the off/on switch for the lights. There is also an electronic board mounted to the ceiling. That board contains plugs which connect the wires from the switch to the ceiling board. There is a capacitor mounted to the ceiling board. It hangs down from the ceiling. I believe it is part of the circuit that allows the lights to stay on as the car passes over a dead spot, such as might be in a track switch. The red and black wire from the off/on switch is super glued to a depression in the bottom of the plastic interior floor. This wire must be extended to reach the ceiling plug on the forward end of the car once the interior and metal floors are reversed. To accomplish this, I cut that wire and spliced in a length of Woodland Scenics extension wire. Once the floors were reversed, the wires were taped into place under the plastic floor. The next issue was that capacitor on the ceiling of the forward end of the car. It interfered with the interior aisle wall. The top of the wall bumped into the hanging capacitor. That interference prevented the floor assembly from sitting level.
This was not a problem with the interior in the wrong position because there is no wall in the observation end of the car. In order to accommodate the wall, the capacitor had to be gently bent toward the center of the car. Now I was able to get things back in place. Removing the vestibule allowed the process to go more smoothly. About an hour was spent making the correction.

The top two pictures are of the finished car.  The bottom one shows the car before the correction.

Looks like they missed the 's in "President's"  on the drumhead.   I have the this car on preorder & the Paradise one as well.  Bummed to hear about the issues.

One of the other FB posts says, "I contacted Lionel and am sending it in for repairs, 6-8 week turn around time." Repairs is of course the interior the wrong way. So I guess everyone contact Lionel for the fix and such unless you want to do it yourself.

@Christopher2035 posted:

Looks like they missed the 's in "President's"  on the drumhead.   I have the this car on preorder & the Paradise one as well.  Bummed to hear about the issues.

HAHA, they need to hire a guy who's job is just checking the spelling on everything, lol. 

OK @traingpl, it's nice to see that your lurking days are over.  I know you have a significant contribution to make to this Forum, so welcome aboard! Your maiden post above is informative and useful, and the results shown in your photos prove the point.

Let's hear more from you.

- Mike

Thank you Mike!

@tom21pa posted:

But will they consider it wrong? They never sent people new passenger cars when they spelled California "califorinia" did they? Will they actually consider flipping interior?

@Cincytrains posted:

If anyone has a way to tell Lionel this please do! Mine will be in on this weekend and I am going to refuse it unless Lionel says something. From reading Facebook and this forum it appears to a 100% failure not random.  It also includes the Philadelphia and Reading observation car, because pictures are showing up as well for that car.

@Shawn_Chronister posted:

Yeah well here is your problem they don't care. People keep buying there garbage and people get flogged for saying anything. the only way to make them accountable is for everyone to stop purchasing but much like people wine and the vote for the same ole same ole.

@RickO posted:

"I suppose every penny counts to an investment company , and if the manufacturing goes to the lowest bidder, well.....

It's gotta be tough for Ryan Dave Meegan, and the rest. They take a beating on Facebook because of corporate Lionels decisions. I can see why the last audio engineer,cto and customer service manager departed."

Clearly a pattern. Has anyone ever seen the Lionel Cardinals Train? While the cars say "Pullman" on them Lionel incorrectly used their Heavyweight Coach tooling for the cars rather than their Heavyweight Pullman tooling. Instead of the spectacular train they could have made it turned out to be another mistake. They even told me they used the Pullman tools. Clearly NO ONE there checked. These aren't nit picker, river counter issues. Who over there is actually in charge of product quality and engineering? Is anyone?

I had avoided ordering either of these cars because for me, aside from the livery, they are just the wrong type of heavyweight cars and aren't a fair enough representation of the prototype for the cost.  Nevertheless, I really do feel badly for those experiencing the incorrect assembly and drumhead. A real shame and I hope a reasonable solution is in the works.

I stipulate that most folks reading know how to open and get to the interior.  So, My fix was to remove the shell, disconnect the wire from the Light board that goes to the floor.  Separate the floor from the metal base snip the wire that goes to the light led board at the point it is glued to the floor underside. Solder extension wires to the switch board where the lighting wires originate and soldering them back to the wires that were snipped off, with the molex connector to go back into the light board, and run to the front end of the car, turn the shell around and plug back the wires then reassemble. No need to move any interior part around.  Sorry no pictures, hope this makes sense but it worked for me.

I also received my car yesterday and have the exact same issues, from the interior being backwards, to the inner packaging being damaged.  I also had a missing bearing cap but that's minimal versus the other stuff.  I've reached out to Lionel so hopefully this issue gets resolved.

Thanks,

Sean M

West Grove, PA

As a former quality engineer (automotive), I cringe to type this because it’s 100% not the way to build quality products.  BUT, given Lionel cannot seem to build in quality, it really has got to the point where they need to hire a team of quality inspectors in North Carolina and sort this stuff before it’s shipped to their customers. Building in quality will always trump trying to inspect it in, but they’re at the point of having no other choice.

@Rider Sandman posted:

As a former quality engineer (automotive), I cringe to type this because it’s 100% not the way to build quality products.  BUT, given Lionel cannot seem to build in quality, it really has got to the point where they need to hire a team of quality inspectors in North Carolina and sort this stuff before it’s shipped to their customers. Building in quality will always trump trying to inspect it in, but they’re at the point of having no other choice.

Sad to say . it will never happen!   As long as the snafu's , poor quality control (at the  CCP factory )  Products will continue  to come in this way. This  very nice  model , is a hot mess. ( the numbers I have heard of indicate 70% have the interiors reversed)  bring the tooling back and make them here.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Sad to say . it will never happen!   As long as the snafu's , poor quality control (at the  CCP factory )  Products will continue  to come in this way.   bring the tooling back and make them here.

Back here's not gonna happen, but they could find a better overseas factory. Mike Wolf certainly did, but trains were his business more than the bottom line.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Sad to say . it will never happen!   As long as the snafu's , poor quality control (at the  CCP factory )  Products will continue  to come in this way. This  very nice  model , is a hot mess. ( the numbers I have heard of indicate 70% have the interiors reversed)  bring the tooling back and make them here.

LOL!  Everyone is already complaining about the prices.  That will sure to make them happier <<sarcasm>>. 

@RickO posted:

Back here's not gonna happen, but they could find a better overseas factory. Mike Wolf certainly did, but trains were his business more than the bottom line.

Rick I hear you!   The thought of  American made  mass produced  model trains , has left the  station for the last time.  But realistically with training , and supervision (quality control) you can have them made most any were) , but trying to retro fix  an issue time and time again. is not a profitable way of running a business.  I have seen too many model companies go down the CCP Factory, rabbit hole , that no longer exist any more.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Sad to say . it will never happen!   As long as the snafu's , poor quality control (at the  CCP factory )  Products will continue  to come in this way. This  very nice  model , is a hot mess. ( the numbers I have heard of indicate 70% have the interiors reversed)  bring the tooling back and make them here.

Whether it’s their current third-party manufacturer in Asia or their own factory on the moon, the bottom line is their current production process is completely out of control by any modern quality standard. I have no idea if they can rein it back in or not. But, they absolutely could hire people stateside to inspect incoming products before they ship out to dealers. It’s an incredibly inefficient/1960’s way to run a manufacturing process, but it’s to the point where they have to try something different. There have been very few businesses that have been able to use their customers as their primary quality control monitors for very long….

I recently got one in for a customer and swapped the interior around.  It's not a difficult job, but figure at least half an hour as the wire is glued in and you have to replace it after you peel it out and the insulation comes off.   I actually improved it a little by not having the wire visible through the windows since I was already in there.

I'm kind of curious what is up with the interior packaging being all broken up. I know a few years ago they moved to the blister packages of clear plastic, ala clam shell you could call them. Are these just plain old white plastic just covering the backside in the box? What is up with that?

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

What is up with that?

It’s cheaper. Kinda like taking the metal out of the trucks of your freight cars…..

@RickO posted:

Back here's not gonna happen, but they could find a better overseas factory. Mike Wolf certainly did, but trains were his business more than the bottom line.

100%, Mike has to make sure things were done right because his name and reputation were on the line. If you want it done right, you need to make sure it is managed properly. I can remember seeing a Train world video where they were talking to Mike. He was at the factory, talking with the people making the stuff, talking to the assemblers, going through every aspect of what was going on. Ken Jr was amazed at everything that was going on in that. If you were to ask what Mike was doing, I'd saying running a marathon of the factory. Not only did it show his dedication to his product, it also showed the workers, and staff that made sure the stuff was done right. I don't remember when the video was from, but I was amazed, and I have only recently started buying some MTH items, no engines though other than those I intend to upgrade.

@Rider Sandman posted:

It’s cheaper. Kinda like taking the metal out of the trucks of your freight cars…..

Well, that explains a lot. Same grade as the HO plastic for their car's packaging I wager.

I sent both my observations back to be repaired under warranty.  Yes, I could do it myself, but after spending close to $200 per car, I feel it should come out of the box correctly and not be on my time/dollar to repair it.  Sending the faulty cars back, imo, sends a message to Lionel that their consumers aren't going to stand for poor quality in their purchases.

@Rider Sandman posted:

As a former quality engineer (automotive), I cringe to type this because it’s 100% not the way to build quality products.  BUT, given Lionel cannot seem to build in quality, it really has got to the point where they need to hire a team of quality inspectors in North Carolina and sort this stuff before it’s shipped to their customers. Building in quality will always trump trying to inspect it in, but they’re at the point of having no other choice.

Why would they do this when the can just raise the prices and make us pay for there mistakes.

@Christopher2035 posted:

I sent both my observations back to be repaired under warranty.  Yes, I could do it myself, but after spending close to $200 per car, I feel it should come out of the box correctly and not be on my time/dollar to repair it.  Sending the faulty cars back, imo, sends a message to Lionel that their consumers aren't going to stand for poor quality in their purchases.

Christopher

You did the right thing.  These are expensive and we shouldn't be the ones that fixes these mistakes.  Don't get me wrong if it were a screw needed put in or a 2 minute job then I'd do it myself.  While the fix for this isn't all that hard and probably doesn't take all that long (but longer than a couple of minutes), it is a serious mistake that you shouldn't have to deal with.

@MartyE posted:

Christopher

You did the right thing.  These are expensive and we shouldn't be the ones that fixes these mistakes.  Don't get me wrong if it were a screw needed put in or a 2 minute job then I'd do it myself.  While the fix for this isn't all that hard and probably doesn't take all that long (but longer than a couple of minutes), it is a serious mistake that you shouldn't have to deal with.

let's not forget the missing 's on the drum head of the Reading observation

What bothers me, unless I missed it, has Lionel addressed this issue at all? Have Ryan and/or Dave said anything about this mistake? This is a biggie, a 100% failure rate. They have not said a thing.

@Christopher2035 posted:

I sent both my observations back to be repaired under warranty.  Yes, I could do it myself, but after spending close to $200 per car, I feel it should come out of the box correctly and not be on my time/dollar to repair it.  Sending the faulty cars back, imo, sends a message to Lionel that their consumers aren't going to stand for poor quality in their purchases.

Bur did you pay for the reverse shipping or did they?

Lionel paid for shipping to Concord

@Christopher2035 posted:

let's not forget the missing 's on the drum head of the Reading observation

Are they going to fix that as well, or is it going to be a modern-day version of this factory error?

@Cincytrains posted:

What bothers me, unless I missed it, has Lionel addressed this issue at all? Have Ryan and/or Dave said anything about this mistake? This is a biggie, a 100% failure rate. They have not said a thing.

I agree; this is not the time to hide. Someone needs to take ownership of this mistake and give the customers specific plans for how Lionel is going to ensure mistakes like this don't happen again, especially with the delivery of #90 on the horizon. After this, I have very low expectations that #90 will look and operate as it should.

@MartyE posted:

LOL!  Everyone is already complaining about the prices.  That will sure to make them happier <<sarcasm>>.

I would pay double for USA made trains with actual QC.

@Dave Koehler posted:

Bur did you pay for the reverse shipping or did they?

well thats a good thing

@rplst8 posted:

I would pay double for USA made trains with actual QC.

I think you’d be in the minority paying double but I get your drift.

Lionel would be out of business if they charged double regardless of whether they were perfect out of every box. We are already paying $2800 for a Big Boy $5600 isn’t going to sell. Even the least expensive boxcar at $85 would be $170. Are you sure you are willing to pay that?

Why don’t we just make them where they are being made with better oversight and keep paying the prices we pay now. I agree Lionel needs to do better but paying more for something that could be done with the current production overseas is the answer to keeping trains affordable.  Lionel needs to tighten their oversight. 

I've learned from experience to never say never, but for now I'm going to stop ordering/ pre-ordering Lionel. That being said, if there's something I really want at my local dealers I'll probably purchase it, as I know that they'll stand behind it and send out/ repair it themselves. It gives me the opportunity to open and inspect/ test it right there. Being on a fixed income, I have only so much play money to throw around. There's a LOT of really nice used stuff out there- a lot cheaper- and that comprises the majority of my very modest "collection".

@Steven Bullock posted:

I've learned from experience to never say never, but for now I'm going to stop ordering/ pre-ordering Lionel. That being said, if there's something I really want at my local dealers I'll probably purchase it, as I know that they'll stand behind it and send out/ repair it themselves. It gives me the opportunity to open and inspect/ test it right there. Being on a fixed income, I have only so much play money to throw around. There's a LOT of really nice used stuff out there- a lot cheaper- and that comprises the majority of my very modest "collection".

That's how I've been rolling with a few exceptions. 

@rplst8 posted:

I would pay double for USA made trains with actual QC.

50 or 60 years ago maybe. I think it's a false assumption that manufacturing here would result in better quality. Remember those US made Crayola cars a few years back that the crayons wouldn't  fit into?

Lionel has to spend more on manufacturing , or at least a QC inspector.