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Well you have hit the main point, 2R cars will not have rollers or middle rail pickups. They would pickup off the left side of one truck and the right side of the other. One side of each truck would have insulated wheels on the axles. To convert electrically, you would just have to remove the wire from one truck and connect it to a center pickup. Now that may or not be simple!
The other things you would run into are wheel flange size and ability to navigate curves. The flanges on 2R cars are much smaller than on 2 rail. If you use a track with flat tops on the rail heads, they will work on the track. However, 3R switches are built to looser/different standards for gaps at frogs and whatnot. the 2R wheels will work on some and not on others. They will definitely not work on tubular track.
Cars built specifically for 2R such as most detailed brass, often have a lot more scaled detailed under body details than 3R cars. This usually means that the trucks will not swivel as far as they do on 3R cars. The cars will not go around as sharp a radius. Remember 2R is referred as radius while 3R refers to diameter. O72 track has a 36 inch radius. Some superdetailed 80ft (scale lenght) cars will require 60-72 inch radius. So to make such cars go around sharper curves, the details on the underbody and steps and such have to be modified or removed to allow the trucks swivel farther.
Now older kit-built Walthers full size cars were often built to run on sharper curves and the details left off as built.
the other minor item is that 2 R cars are built for body mount couplers. Generally speaking, on 2R track, these track better than truck mounted couplers because the forces of any moves are agains the body, not the truck. However, for 3R a lot of stuff still uses truck mounted couplers. So you would have to decide what to do there.
the simplest solution would be to replace the trucks with 3R trucks with couplers and pickups. Do the body mods as necessary.
the simplest solution would be to replace the trucks with 3R trucks with couplers and pickups. Do the body mods as necessary.
Good advice. I wish all passenger cars came with LEDs that were battery operated, no track voltage required. The only passenger cars I have that still have lights in them are ones that haven't been modified yet. I really don't like the looks of brilliantly lit cars running around the layout.
I bought some K-Line/Lionel 2-rail passenger car trucks for my 3-rail cars and simply replaced the wheels with 3-rail wheels.
2-rail wheels will dip down into the frogs on 3-rail switches, because of the smaller flange depth of the wheels.
prrjim and Bob did an excellent job explaining the difficulties.
I purchased 2 rail passenger cars to run on 3 rail track and from my experience, I don't think I can add anything to what has already been posted.
I go the other way - dozens of K-Line cars from 3-rail to two rail. If you like the looks of scale passenger cars, you may get to like the looks of two rail track.
If you prefer the center rail, there are far more options in 3- rail passenger cars, and they are lots cheaper. Some look quite good.
Well you have hit the main point, 2R cars will not have rollers or middle rail pickups. They would pickup off the left side of one truck and the right side of the other. One side of each truck would have insulated wheels on the axles. To convert electrically, you would just have to remove the wire from one truck and connect it to a center pickup. Now that may or not be simple!
The other things you would run into are wheel flange size and ability to navigate curves. The flanges on 2R cars are much smaller than on 2 rail. If you use a track with flat tops on the rail heads, they will work on the track. However, 3R switches are built to looser/different standards for gaps at frogs and whatnot. the 2R wheels will work on some and not on others. They will definitely not work on tubular track.
Cars built specifically for 2R such as most detailed brass, often have a lot more scaled detailed under body details than 3R cars. This usually means that the trucks will not swivel as far as they do on 3R cars. The cars will not go around as sharp a radius. Remember 2R is referred as radius while 3R refers to diameter. O72 track has a 36 inch radius. Some superdetailed 80ft (scale lenght) cars will require 60-72 inch radius. So to make such cars go around sharper curves, the details on the underbody and steps and such have to be modified or removed to allow the trucks swivel farther.
Now older kit-built Walthers full size cars were often built to run on sharper curves and the details left off as built.
the other minor item is that 2 R cars are built for body mount couplers. Generally speaking, on 2R track, these track better than truck mounted couplers because the forces of any moves are agains the body, not the truck. However, for 3R a lot of stuff still uses truck mounted couplers. So you would have to decide what to do there.
the simplest solution would be to replace the trucks with 3R trucks with couplers and pickups. Do the body mods as necessary.
Jim,
Regarding the Flanges, I currently do have Fastrack, however, I am building a new layout from the ground up, and have been planning on utilizing Gargraves Track & Ross Switches. Also, my minimum diameter track will be O-72. I am planning on going with O-120/ 108 for my largest diameter track.
How difficult would it be to change out the trucks? I have never done any retrofitting of any kind to my Railroad.
the simplest solution would be to replace the trucks with 3R trucks with couplers and pickups. Do the body mods as necessary.
Good advice. I wish all passenger cars came with LEDs that were battery operated, no track voltage required. The only passenger cars I have that still have lights in them are ones that haven't been modified yet. I really don't like the looks of brilliantly lit cars running around the layout.
I bought some K-Line/Lionel 2-rail passenger car trucks for my 3-rail cars and simply replaced the wheels with 3-rail wheels.
2-rail wheels will dip down into the frogs on 3-rail switches, because of the smaller flange depth of the wheels.
Bob,
Thank you for your input. I do not like overly bright Passenger Cars either. I too also wish all cars came with LED's. Life would be so much easier. :-)
prrjim and Bob did an excellent job explaining the difficulties.
I purchased 2 rail passenger cars to run on 3 rail track and from my experience, I don't think I can add anything to what has already been posted.
Howard,
Thank you Sir. Did you encounter any difficulties modifying the 2R PC to 3R?
I go the other way - dozens of K-Line cars from 3-rail to two rail. If you like the looks of scale passenger cars, you may get to like the looks of two rail track.
If you prefer the center rail, there are far more options in 3- rail passenger cars, and they are lots cheaper. Some look quite good.
Bob,
I love the looks of Scale PC's, and I love the detailing that 3rd Rail puts out/ and what K-Line offered. I like the looks of 2R, just not the cost of 2R. With this layout, I'd like to do the Phantom Track, so that the Middle Rail is not so obvious. Maybe do some darkening/ weathering of the gravel/ ties, so as to take away from the obvious 3rd Rail. :-)
Your big concern (assuming you're already using "flat-top" tack) will be curve radius. Body-mount couplers on full-length passenger cars will take issue with 27" radius (O-54) curves and will be marginal on 36" radius (O-72 ) for the most part. At that point, you're looking at 48" to 60" (O-96 to O-120) radius for better operation.
Thank you Sir. Did you encounter any difficulties modifying the 2R PC to 3R?
I didn't because I had purchased some head end baggage mail cars and they weren't lighted. I used Kadees on the 3rd Rail cars I was running with them, so the couplers weren't a problem. At the time I had some tight curves for 2 rail cars. I solved the clearance issues by bending out the steps below the baggage and mail doors that were causing the problem. They did derail from time to time going through unmodified switches. On his layout, Hot Water solved that problem by adding some (plastic?) to close down the areas on a switch that would allow 2 rail wheels to wander and eventually derail on a 3 rail switch. I never got that far but I have gone the other way with a 2 rail switch that would allow 3 rail wheel travel by repositioning the guard rails.
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I couldn't find it but somewhere on the forum is a post that strongly suggests not changing GGD cars from 2 rail to 3 rail. You ought to read the thread.
Your big concern (assuming you're already using "flat-top" tack) will be curve radius. Body-mount couplers on full-length passenger cars will take issue with 27" radius (O-54) curves and will be marginal on 36" radius (O-72 ) for the most part. At that point, you're looking at 48" to 60" (O-96 to O-120) radius for better operation.
Matt,
I'm not sure I'm tracking on what your trying to tell me. Me thinks you did not read my post or the following replies. I already stated that my smallest diameter track will be O-72, while my largest will be O-120/O-108.
Thank you Sir. Did you encounter any difficulties modifying the 2R PC to 3R?
I didn't because I had purchased some head end baggage mail cars and they weren't lighted. I used Kadees on the 3rd Rail cars I was running with them, so the couplers weren't a problem. At the time I had some tight curves for 2 rail cars. I solved the clearance issues by bending out the steps below the baggage and mail doors that were causing the problem. They did derail from time to time going through unmodified switches. On his layout, Hot Water solved that problem by adding some (plastic?) to close down the areas on a switch that would allow 2 rail wheels to wander and eventually derail on a 3 rail switch. I never got that far but I have gone the other way with a 2 rail switch that would allow 3 rail wheel travel by repositioning the guard rails.
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I couldn't find it but somewhere on the forum is a post that strongly suggests not changing GGD cars from 2 rail to 3 rail. You ought to read the thread.
Howard,
I'm not finding the thread. Why would it be recommended against changing the trucks on GGD Cars? A Car is a Car is a Car. What makes GGD so special, as to not changing out the trucks? It would appear that while its easy to convert a 3R Car to 2R, its not so easy to do the opposite? Why is that? I guess if GGD doesn't want me to spend 2K on a set of cars, then I guess I won't be doing so.
Also, I am planning on doing close coupling with regard to the use of Kadee's versus using the Lobster Claw. I greatly dislike the use of the Claw. While it is easy to use, it looks very much out of place on a Scale piece of equipment.
When I get to the point of where I am ready to start converting equipment to Kadee's, I will be asking for guidance and input.
Thank you for your follow up reply.
What's posted by Beth Marshall of The Public Delivery Track is, "DO NOT buy with the intention to 3 rail." She doesn't say why, but she sells an awful lot of trains to both 2 and 3 rail modelers.
Laidoffsick then posts, "The lights are a whole different set up between 2 and 3R....that would not be an easy task to convert them."
I've dealt with Beth and feel Laidoffsick is an excellent experienced modeler. I assume the problem is the lighting, an issue not related to the switching trucks.
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That said, I have some heavyweight GGD cars on which I exchanged trucks with someone else. He had 2R and I had 3R and now I have 2R. I haven't put the cars on the track yet so I don't know if I will have any lighting issues, but I'll try one and let you know.
I tested the 3R car that I converted to 2R. Using a DC power source it seems OK. This car does have constant voltage lighting there is a tiny bit of flicker from time to time. I don't know if how long the lights will last and have to look into it.
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I have 2 sets of the recent Super Chief cars, one 3R and one 2R. I thought I noticed that they had different lighting characteristics. The 3 rail had constant voltage lighting and the 2R didn't. I'll check that too.
I was wrong about that, the lighting fluctuates with voltage on both.
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You could always call and ask 3rd Rail if there is an issue.
I'm in the process of moving to 2 rail and it would help me greatly if I could just switch trucks. If you go ahead, I'd like to know the results, so please post.
I have the Atlas Zephyr cars (7) that run well on Gargraves trace with Ross switches both 80" and 88" diameter.
Dick
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