3rd rail E7's?

mine did

Mine arrived on Monday of last week and most have been shipped at this point.  If you'll excuse my cross-posting images from the 3RS forum, here are photos of mine that came in.  They are two rail along with the Sunset K4 in some of the photos.  My layout and track just haven't caught up yet!

 

I'd love to see how the other paint schemes turned out.  Post your pictures when they arrive!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Pennsy Roster of my NY&LB is essentially complete now with perhaps the addition of a BP20 some day down the road and probably a few more P70s of the Fbr variety when they become available one day. 

Those look great, they really nailed the contours of the nose.

Chris - I agree.  It took six generations of models to get the version that was produced.  The first generation shell is sitting on my desk. 

they look nice. have to chk with JD trains to see about my cbq set.  thx

 

I know I'm on the 2-rail side of the house, but my question can probably be answered quickly over here.

 

I just got my 3-rail Seaboard E7.  First thing I want to do is take off the battering-ram type electro-couplers, put the closed pilot on the front, and a Kadee on the back.

 

How is the Kadee attached on the rear of the 2-rail model?  Is there a factory delivered shim or other piece that the Kadee mounts to?  The 3-rail model has 2 holes in the rear in the chassis where it looks like a pad of some kind can be installed to accept a Kadee.  If there is a factory piece, any idea what it's called or if it has a part number?

How is the Kadee attached on the rear of the 2-rail model?  Is there a factory delivered shim or other piece that the Kadee mounts to?  The 3-rail model has 2 holes in the rear in the chassis where it looks like a pad of some kind can be installed to accept a Kadee.  If there is a factory piece, any idea what it's called or if it has a part number?

 

My experience with 3rd Rail is that 2 rail versions usually come with a piece attached to the frame that gives the proper height for Kadees.  The easiest way to find out if 3rd Rail has them available is to call them and ask if they might have what you need.  I have no idea if they have things organized by part number, but I would guess not.  Just tell them you want to mount Kadees on your 3 rail E7.  They are extremely friendly.  Good luck Bob!

Bob - let me check mine when I get home this evening.  The two rail couplers and boxes are Kadee products so I'll shoot a photo for you to show how they are mounted.

Thanks guys!  Hopefully I can get the piece that will put the coupler box at the correct height or close to it.

I was really looking forward to ACL E7s. I hear that there will not be a rerun of new road names offered for a while. What a shame given that there are several road names still yet to be done. I guess the E8 will be next. Stephen nw2124

Still Waiting here in Western Pennsylvania...........

Norm Rish

Not quite the same question, but FYI.   I found that the new KADEE "Long Shank" couplers worked great on the FRONT.   They can be installed and operate without any modification to the pilot.   

 

A regular shank coupler will cause the trip pin on the coupling car to the front to hang up on the pilot.  

prrjim,

 

I have that problem now on my WBB E7, need to get some of those long-shank couplers

Bob

 

Please call or email me about a Seaboard express service box car that may look good behind your E7.

 

Ed Rappe 

Up next, SUNSET E8s. I'll take SRR, ACL, RF&P. N&W, Wabash.!

Stephen

I am looking forward to the E8's a great deal.  I love the E7s and they are perfect for my home layout, but I grew up at the end of the E8 era.  While the chances of seeing one from Sunset in NJDOT or NJ Transit is slim to none, your suggested road names Stephen are all likely candidates. 

 

 

Ed, will do sometime in the coming week.

got my e7s.  very nice for price, for sure!  new youtube video of them on my youtube channel.  couple items to change asap:

 

• false prime mover so you cannot see all the wires and circuits through windows
• move couplers between units in about 1/4" per unit.  close couple them a bit more.
• seems the pilot casting is a bit "weak" as far as detail and etching.
• figures are pretty terrible, but no big deal
• takes every bit of 12v to get these things moving, so i assume system is tweaked to run on DCC and on DC they take a bit of voltage to get moving.

 

again, very very nicely done for the money.  i look forward to getting the rest of the zephyr cars and have a nice partial zephyr train (going to run a 7 car train)

 

thanks guys,

 

mike

 

zak98 - watched your video!  Nice layout.  If you enhance the engine room please post.  Aside from hiding the wires, there is some structural bracing that should show through.  I was going to stop with that hand put something a little bit behind the windows, but I'd love to see how you tackle the prime mover. 

 

There is something interesting between the first run and the second.  The silver is different.  I wonder if the first run has a more accurate color.

 

Here is a link to a 1st run video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?...&feature=related

 

I would like a comment from someone that has seen both and knows which is more accurate.

 

zak98 - one more thing, where did you get the signal in your video.  I have been looking without luck trying to find some.

Does anyone know if the new PRR units came with the correct pilots?  I remembered someone saying the correct pilots will be cast for the second run and extras will be made for those who already have the first run PRR A units.  Please advise.

Mike,

the way it was exlpained to me was there would be a PASSENGER pilot made available in the second run of the E7, for those would had purchased road units for railroads that had them.

Based on the photo of Jonathan's wide strip PRR E7, the pilot looks to be the same (incorrect for PRR) as on the first run 5 strip diesels.  Hopefully the Sunset PRR FP7' will have a correct pilot and spares made that can be retrofitted to the E7's.

 

Ed

I do not claim to be knowledgeable bout PRR EMD freight and passenger pilots. In reviewing my Withers books on PRR diesels I'm hard-pressed to see the difference between freight and passenger pilots except for the contour of the back edge; I would think that could be improved with some careful file work. The missing coupler door could perhaps be replaced with P&D part #PDP5738.

I'd appreciate a more learned discussion....

 

 The PRR settled on a common pilot (and coupler cover) for their EMD F3,F7, FP7, E7, and E8 diesels.  The freight and passenger pilots were the same.  While the Sunset pilot  on the E7's may be correct for the NYC and CB&Q diesels - the slope and shape is incorrect (should be steeper and without a "kink") for PRR.  P&D has a pilot casting that will work for Pennsy, but I'll probably run my E7's as is for awhile waiting to see if Scott can come through with painted a replacements when the PRR FP7's are produced.  

 

Ed Rappe

I was thoroughly disappointed with my first E7 from Sunset as well as their C&O caboose. It pains me to have such a bad experience with their products as i want to support their efforts and appreciate what they are trying to bring to the O scale market. In both cases the items were either resold on ebay or returned. Never again.

Adam

 

What specific things brought about your dissapointment? I don't own an E7, nor plan on getting one, but I'd like to know if these are things we should all look out for, or whether they are specific to those models

I would agree with John and simply ask what specific issues you had with the models.  Without the specifics no one learns how to improve next time around.  While I am completely biased I was very impressed with mine, Are they perfect?  Of course not, but they are well ahead of anything else I could hope to have at that price point.

What was your issue with the C&O caboose?

I have an PRR A-B-A E 7 and  enjoy running it. Though not perfect it is a very well done first effort.  I especially like the drive performance and look forward to buying the new FP7.  I've provided Scott with a short list of recommended upgrades for future diesels (especially all wheel pickup). I'm sufficiently pleased that I will be selling a very smooth running unpainted Overland E7 A-A.  The Key E units are fantastic - but IMO the Sunsets  offer better value  when price is considered along with detail and performance.

 

 Ed Rappe

I would guess that a good paint job could be applied to a painted unit, with only a slight bit more effort than with an undec model.  If the market for undec is thin, they easily could cost more to produce than finished models.

 

High end trucks often have problems.  You want really good 2-rail trucks, be prepared to overhaul them.  Or replace with Rich Yoder's trucks.

 

When Scott offers an alternate all metal version, i will be forced to join, painted or not.  Good die cast would be great.

 

Without the 3-railers, 2- rail would be dead.  All opinion.

Bob - I normally find myself agreeing with you opinions, but I have to say that Sunset is doing quite well with the diesels in two rail.  More than 50% of the FL9 orders are 2 rail and of course New Haven.  I think it is a real possibility that Scott may successfully help revive 2 rail scale operations with the continued introduction of these models.  Imagine, very good models at a reasonable price that actually run in two rail out of the box.  I am imagining a bright future for this side of the hobby.  I know for one that I can finally eliminate that third rail that has always bothered me a bit and not end up deeply in debt of broke to do so while actually enjoying seeing my trains run.  The market determines what sells and based on what I've seen in person on the FL9, it is far superior to the OMI version.

Depending on when you looked at them, there were several variations of PRR diesel pilots. The first E7's 5900 and 5901 came equipped with pilots that were similar (if not identical) to those on FT's. Two of their F3's, 9518 and 9519 came from EMD with freight pilots. They were later modified with a shop made coupler door. The coupler doors on the first 6 F3's delivered (9500-9505) had coupler doors with (for lack of a better description) squared off edges. The later units had doors that had rounded edges. Some of PRR's E7's had pilots with coupler doors that were similar looking to the shop made ones on F3 9518 and 9519. I've seen photos where the bottom of the pilots were notched. That said, the PRR NEVER (to my knowledge) had a pilot that looked like the ones on the 3rd Rail engines. I've seen that style on UP and SP diesels.

 

On most of the EMD units with coupler doors, the doors were slid apart and the bottom section of the pilot (arch) flipped up for coupling.

 

The shop made doors were different and opened in an outward direction instead of opening side ways like the factory EMD doors.

 

The link below will take you to Bill Burket's PRR photos site and a photo of F3 9518 showing it's shop fabricated pilot.

 

http://www.billspennsyphotos.c...oto?photoid=62903961

 

Simon

 

PS: There are ample photos of all this stuff out there if one takes the time to look!

Can anyone point to a drawing of the PRR E-7 passenger pilot?

rex,

 

You might try looking at an old EMD Number 90 Parts Catalog. I seem to recall quite a few different "F unit" pilots & snow plows listed, with basic drawings/photos and descriptions. 

Jonathan - you may not agree with me, but I agree with you.  Without you, you three- railer you, we would not have these fine models.  Welcome to the 2-rail club.

The 2 volume PRRT&HS articles on Pennsy F units goes into extensive detail on the evolution of coupler doors and other pilot details.  Though the series didn't cover E units, photos shows a similar evolution with E units.  To keep things simple in communicating with the builder we recommended that Scott model his PRR E7 pilots on the nice pilots offered by P&D (two styles - with and without coupler doors).  These options would have provided a look commonly found on the E7 fleet.  My recommendation holds for the upcoming Sunset FP7. Retroffitting a P&D pilot to the Sunset E7 is still a viable option - something several MTH PRR F7 owners are considering as well.

 

Ed Rappe

I can't give you a drawing, but I'll include another link to Bill B's site of a builders photo of an F3 with a "passenger" style pilot and coupler doors that are darn similar (if not identical) to the ones on the E's:

 

http://www.billspennsyphotos.c...oto?photoid=94710742

 

I have long thought that the E and F pilots were probably the same part, but I have no definitive information as to the accuracy of that supposition. Maybe Ed Rappe or some other PRR buff could weigh in on this.

 

Simon

Considering the outcome (which was NOT so good), where do you think the process broke down? Since the problem was NOT corrected on the second run, I would be skeptical about it happening on the FP7's.

 

Simon