Scott,
please consider an Illinois Central version.
HW, I am trying to help out.
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
Originally Posted by BigBoy4014:
Hello Scot;
These are my suggestion with all due respect:
Think Future, think modular, think long term investment, think amortizing on molds and pr fixtures, Think DCC, DCS and even Legacy.
DCS is a proprietary system from MTH and they, so far, have not let another manufacturer use it. Legacy is a proprietary system from Lionel and, so far, they have not licensed another manufacturer to use it.
I see
I know for a fact that you can design all these features in at this stage.
Really??????
Do you think these features that I mentioned are not with in SS capabilities? Seeing and owning some of their models, I think so, if I am wrong, sorry!
Give customers all the options, charge them accordingly, you will get 2R and 3R and DCS guys buying.
Not in my opinion, as I prefer Sunset/3rd Rail's current approach using ERR for 3-Rail command control.
Sure, in your opinion and I respect that. But SS, I think, is trying to satisfy a larger customer base? and perhaps they can set up their locos up to accept customers installed DCS,DCC and even Legacy systems taken out of another loco?
I have worked with Chinese factories before,
But, you have not worked with either MTH nor Lionel relative to their proprietary command control systems.
I was talking about SS working with their Chinese factories, not MTH nor Lionel, may be I did not word it right?
Also, I thought since we can buy an MTH PS2/3 upgrade systems why SS can not?
set them up well and keep your eyes on them and they will do good quality work. Keep assembly/modifications simple and easy for the workers and the customers, Think outside the typical RR fan box", this is a major one and one can easily think "inside" the box.... I am sure you know all of this, but sometimes it is good to repeat it.
Make room for two speakers if you have not already, choose speaker space for common quality speakers on the market. Leave room for smoke units in the B unit.
I think everything I mentioned here you already know, but I want you your successful so I can get my ABBA SF, UP, SP (Black widow too) units in 2R and 3R 
Good luck...
HW, anything you agree with?
I second the Illinois Central suggestion.
Oh Boy!! This one may break the piggy bank.
How about a BN version?
Scott /Jonathan--You missed one--Jersey Central
Originally Posted by aznjbill:
Scott /Jonathan--You missed one--Jersey Central
I guess it bears repeating for the 50th time. If you want something done the answer is to email Scott and say
"If you make X I will reserve Y number of them (and that includes numbers)" It is as simple as that.
That is how the yellowbonnet F7s (which ended up being the 2nd most popular livery) and the demonstrator SD7s and F7s ended up happening.
Those that do not receive sufficient reservations will not be done; again, as simple as that.
Reservations talk and BS walks. It is absolutely amazing how many suggestions end up with 0 reservations.
Hi Scott, how about doing the second merger of the Atlantic Coast Line and the Seaboard Air Line to do the paint scheme of the Seaboard Coast Line which was a major class 1 railroad on the East Coast. Even better, produce a set of 18 inch passenger cars (so that most of us with average size layouts can run them without the excessive overhang) with the proper windows to go along with engines.
Thanks
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Originally Posted by aznjbill:
Scott /Jonathan--You missed one--Jersey Central
As far as I know, #rd Rail only does prototype paint schemes and CNJ never had any E units.
Originally Posted by Traintrack:
Even better, produce a set of 18 inch passenger cars (so that most of us with average size layouts can run them without the excessive overhang) with the proper windows to go along with engines.
Thanks
3rd Rail only produces scale passenger cars. So if the prototype cars scale out to 18" then that is what Scott will produce. If you are looking for shortened passenger cars, I believe MTH and Lionel have that market pretty well covered.
I'm in for a couple of Q's, since I missed out on the E7's for not running DCC at the time. I think it would be a great improvement if pilot doors were included,but I wouldn't mind paying extra for them. Also, applying the steel panel treatment you are using for the ATSF F7's, would make these very unique and wonderful models.
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SANTIAGOP23 Those were some GREAT pictures.
Clink on the link below for a video featuring the CZ from Chicago to the west coast. I am sure you will enjoy it.
Best viewed in Full Screen mode.
This photo says it all.
I am with Hot Water on this stuff. I suspect Scott is quite good at what he does. if a hobbyist decides that Scott could run his business better some other way - especially a hobbyist with experience having stuff built in China - I bet Scott would welcome the competition, and we would all be better off with more choices.
Once in a while a suggestion makes sense. I suggested using bronze axle gears a couple decades ago, after replacing a few brass gears.
I also agree with the idea of firm orders - you want something special, get your buddies together and send Scott a firm order for enough models for him to make a profit. I bet he will do what you want!
Hi Scott,
The Southern Pacific paint scheme listed as the "Black Widow" is actually the "Bloody Nose" paint scheme. Will the Art shown for the "Bloody Nose" be what is produced, or the "Black Widow" paint scheme listed in the text be produced?
Doug
A couple of Burlington questions:
Did the E8's and E9's have dynamic braking? (It doesn't look like it on the picture of E8 cab number 9976 above.)
Did this E9 have quad sealed beams for the headlight (in the nose door), or is that just a reflection in the photograph?
Originally Posted by thebeaune:
I love the Black Widow... Bloody Nose not so much. I will wait for Scott's response.
Originally Posted by marker:
A couple of Burlington questions:
Did the E8's and E9's have dynamic braking? (It doesn't look like it on the picture of E8 cab number 9976 above.)
No dynamic brakes, although I don't know how could tell that from the photo, above.
Did this E9 have quad sealed beams for the headlight (in the nose door), or is that just a reflection in the photograph?
No. All the Burlington "E Units" had the Mars Light in the upper position, and the twin sealed beam headlight in the nose door. For what it's worth, if the Mars Light assembly had been mounted in the nose door, a normal person would NOT have been able to open the door!
A word about stainless steel side panels on the Burlington units.
Beginning with the 9964 in 1952, E8's were delivered with stainless steel side panels. Over time, about 2/3 of the Burlington E7 and E8 fleet were retrofitted with stainless steel side panels.
Source: Burlington Bulletin #10 4th qtr 1983:
Rusty
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Originally Posted by ES44AC:
What about Southern?
Yes please , the Southern with Air Tanks. No one has made this muscular version in 3 rail that I know of. Both NCTM and TVRM have survivors. I would in immediately if these classics were made.
Thanks
Bryan
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To be more clear, the first two orders/groups of Burlington E8A units, numbers 9938AB - 9946AB plus sole #9937B (totaling 19 units), and the second small group, numbers 9947AB - 9948AB, plus 9949A (five units), were ALL delivered with aluminum painted side panels.
The chart you posted, above, can be misleading as the Burlington began up-grading the side panels to stainless steel, from the aluminum painted panels, in the mid to late 1960s. Thus, for those folks modeling in the 1950s thru early 1960s, the "as delivered" side panel configuration/appearance is VERY important.
This was the photo "above" to which I was referring. If you click on the photo that Santiago posted it will enlarge and you can see there is no D/B fan. Burlington had so many of these that I didn't know if any had dynamic braking.
It's good that there will be enough engines made to justify not having the D/B fans for engines that were not equipped that way. I'm sure that Scott will get the details correct.
I see that the 3rd Rail Reservation Form shows that a PRR model in DGLE will also be offered.
Norm
Originally Posted by marker:
This was the photo "above" to which I was referring. If you click on the photo that Santiago posted it will enlarge and you can see there is no D/B fan.
OK but, that was NOT the photo that was in your post asking about the DB and the headlights.
My bad, I should have made it more clear.
This morning I found a bunch of Burlington E8 and E9 pic's. Here are a few.
It sure would have been lots of fun to have one of these back in the day.
Originally Posted by Hot Water:
To be more clear, the first two orders/groups of Burlington E8A units, numbers 9938AB - 9946AB plus sole #9937B (totaling 19 units), and the second small group, numbers 9947AB - 9948AB, plus 9949A (five units), were ALL delivered with aluminum painted side panels.
The chart you posted, above, can be misleading as the Burlington began up-grading the side panels to stainless steel, from the aluminum painted panels, in the mid to late 1960s. Thus, for those folks modeling in the 1950s thru early 1960s, the "as delivered" side panel configuration/appearance is VERY important.
Thanks for the clarification. I went over the issue of the Burlington Bulletin several times looking for info on when the panel retrofits began, but couldn't locate a date.
Rusty
Great input on the Q's! Thank God these were well documented! Maybe we could start a separate thread were we can discuss the specifics? You know I have a ton of questions! 
For now my question is if 3rd rail could offer both the E8 black nose and the E9 red nose. If not, which one will they do? I'm in for the red nose E9, I have no interest in the black nose E8.
Originally Posted by SANTIAGOP23:
Great input on the Q's! Thank God these were well documented! Maybe we could start a separate thread were we can discuss the specifics? You know I have a ton of questions!
For now my question is if 3rd rail could offer both the E8 black nose and the E9 red nose.
For what it's worth, I have recommended both, to Scott. You might like to eMail him directly and request the same thing.
If not, which one will they do? I'm in for the red nose E9, I have no interest in the black nose E8.
Well, I'm just the opposite, as I model in the late 1940s thru the mid 1950s and would prefer ONLY the black nose for the E8A units.
Where were you guys when I was opining that 3-rail scalers are more concerned with accurate details than we 2-railers? When these things get imported in 2- rail brass, our typical choices are A unit or B?
I probably wouldn't miss a dynamic brake - indeed, I was surprised to find that my T&P Geep did not have a dynamic brake casting.
Originally Posted by bob2:
Where were you guys when I was opining that 3-rail scalers are more concerned with accurate details than we 2-railers? When these things get imported in 2- rail brass, our typical choices are A unit or B?
I probably wouldn't miss a dynamic brake - indeed, I was surprised to find that my T&P Geep did not have a dynamic brake casting.
Maybe you are not the "typical" 2-Rail diesel modeler.
Pennsy E8A's (they never ordered E8 B units) can be found with both Dark Green Locomotive Enamel (DGLE) and Tuscan red bodies. Early delivery units came with DGLE bodies with gold lettering and stripes, The last 32 units (5700-5716, 5760-5764)had Tuscan red bodies and Dulux stripes and lettering. (I've heard Dulux was a Dupont paint catalog term). Eventually the all PRR E8's received the Tuscan red/Dulux scheme. If Sunset 3rd Rail is going to offer DGLE PRR E8A's care should be taken to choose early delivery numbers. An excellent source for PRR E8 information and photos is Pennsylvania Railroad Diesel Locomotive Pictorial - Volume 7 - EMD E Units and ALco PAs by Paul Withers.
Ed Rappe
Originally Posted by DaveJfr0:
Originally Posted by c.sam:
How about a Southern in the Tuxedo Scheme like SR E6 #2800 and this #6910?
I'd be in for some GM&Os and the beautiful L&Ns as well.
As others here said - the rooftop air tanks are the signature detail item on the Southern E8's. There are plenty of prototype photos of the roof that exist for these to get it right.
Southern's E8's were originally in black tuxedo paint. I have to check my books but they went to green sometime around 1972. Both of these paint schemes had the gold lettering, including the units labeled for the Southern Crescent on the nose corners (when that was applied later on). I am unsure exactly what year they got the "gold deluxe" lettering seen in the green units in the earlier post. (note the lettering is much more yellow than gold) Not sure if that occurred after they were acquired by museum's.
Sam mentioned he'd rather black tux units. I would prefer black tuxedo units myself, but many folks probably remember the green tux units or seen the surviving #6900 and they may be more popular. Currently only green is offered, but perhaps Scott would do both or do black instead if enough of the customers email him early and tell him they rather have black. I dont know what Scott's cutoff is for a paint scheme, but this change is really easy as the lettering is exactly the same color/size/location except for the green or black. Orders/requests speak. I'm placing my order for the green with a stipulation that if Scott gets enough requests to do the black, that mine become black.
I'm also throwing in a request for an accurate Southern crescent for these units. If there are enough people that do the same, perhaps it will convince 3rd Rail to do them. I again don't know the numbers he needs, but if no one speaks up, nothing will happen. I'd pretty much guess that with the advent of these E8's its now or never for a full scale and accurate Southern railroad named train.
Black Tux:
Green Tux:
Green Tux for Southern Crescent:
Green Tux with Deluxe Gold lettering (to see how much more yellow it is...photo from 1996:
All good points, David. The key for me are the Air Tanks. I would take either Southern color scheme with the roof top tanks. Otherwise, it wouldn't interest me. There are plenty of the lacking model.
Bryan
I'm probably the only B&O fan bored with the iconic blue/grey paint scheme, but what I would really be interested in having is a solid blue with yellow trim paint scheme. Not nearly as flashy as the earlier paint scheme, but is more representative of locomotives in the mid 60's.
Jim
Scott, curious why you went back to dummy B units instead or powered... or at least no option for powered or dummy B unit?
I haven't seen any mention about multiple road numbers. I am curious because of the fact that many roads did not purchase B units and the offerings would be more enticing if we knew before reserving these engines.
Originally Posted by jd-train:
I'm probably the only B&O fan bored with the iconic blue/grey paint scheme, but what I would really be interested in having is a solid blue with yellow trim paint scheme. Not nearly as flashy as the earlier paint scheme, but is more representative of locomotives in the mid 60's.
Jim
You're not alone Jim. I do like the Early scheme, but the late scheme is also of interest to me.
Originally Posted by Conductor Earl:
I haven't seen any mention about multiple road numbers. I am curious because of the fact that many roads did not purchase B units and the offerings would be more enticing if we knew before reserving these engines.
Maybe it's just me but, logic would dictate that if A-A, or A-B-B, or A-B-A sets are offered, there MUST be multiple road numbers. Right?
Originally Posted by SANTIAGOP23:
Great input on the Q's! Thank God these were well documented! Maybe we could start a separate thread were we can discuss the specifics? You know I have a ton of questions!
For now my question is if 3rd rail could offer both the E8 black nose and the E9 red nose. If not, which one will they do? I'm in for the red nose E9, I have no interest in the black nose E8.
Black widow always gets pimped out in the O gauge market. How many Red / Scarlett F or E units have been done in O gauge? Crickets.
