3rd Rail EMD E8/E9 Announced

Hot Water posted:

Thanks for the look at reality, Scott. Just my opinion but, I really don't think you could find ANY potential workers here in the U.S. that would be capable of doing such fine modeling work for ONLY $15 an hour. It's getting to a point that nobody even wants to "flip burgers" for "only $15/hr".

The underlying problem that has crept on the USA is the basic living budget now for most people require $15 hr to just exist singularly .

Go out in most major cities in US , rent  a 1 br apt. , cable , internet , health insurance , auto insurance , car payment , electric, cell phone , these are what I guess 80% of American workers have as bills. If you co-habitate then you might can live off less . The cost of basic creature comforts that people are accustom to dictates $15 hr , how this can be addressed is what has America mired in this economy. I did not include food, clothes, gas, savings , fun money.  Notice that the whole world is and has been on sale  for quite some time , years . 30-50 yr old crowd , most need re-educating for higher paying more advanced jobs that at are out there , most don't want to because it would mean no play time , working then go to night school . So people can't buy made in the USA . The gravy train has left the station and most Americans did not get on . Throw in the" Unemployed crowd" living off the govt. , they are falling behind daily , before long they are so far gone they can't learn a new skill .

Just my opinion ,

MartyE posted:

...  The problem is can you pay the workers what they think they deserve ... and still charge a price that the consumer is willing to pay?  I'm guessing not...

Marty, no argument there.  I'm already not willing to pay some of the prices we see for toy/model train stuff coming out of Asia now.

The pricing realities are painfully clear.  It's the underlying cultural commentary that I had taken exception to.  Too many of us roll over much too easily when we succumb to cultural stereotypes.

True... There's no fighting the math.  It doesn't do us any favors.  Nobody I know can make a decent carefree living in the USA on $15/hour (approx. $32K annually) -- not to even think about making under $3/hour (roughly $6K annually) by those Chinese workers making our toy trains now.  Heck, my annual health care premiums alone now cost me more than what a typical Chinese worker makes in a year -- courtesy of what is the joke of our new Affordable Healthcare Act (aka Obamacare).     The cost-of-living dynamics are worlds apart between the two continents.  And that's precisely what fuels the way businesses operate nowadays.  No getting around that in the forseeable future.   

David

I'm sorry, I do not buy the argument. Technology requires investment, but the result could be one only requires 4 workers to fifteen. I had a customer who competed with major foreign companies manufacturing specialty capacitors. He employed a plant full of house wives wanting extra shopping money on a piecework basis. He developed the technology and labor practice to win.

I wouldn't perform any operations in California, but would look to states that would welcome a job. Try a laid off coal miner or his wife, factory worker in the rust belt and on and on.

Start small and build from there. We have just given up.

I'm not talking about you Scott as you are a very small business in a hobby line and I understand.

So don't take this personally.  

Ron

Ron H posted:

I'm not talking about you Scott as you are a very small business in a hobby line and I understand.

So don't take this personally.  

Ron

In the "Big Picture" all the train companies are very small relative to other businesses that require manufacturing.  When you are making 500 units and Apple is making hundreds of thousand.

Scott,  I appreciate the real world example. 

Question for you.  When Trump says "there will be consequences" for companies manufacturing oversees, I assume he means companies like yours.  Do you know what the "consequences" are?  Taxes, penalties, laws..??  Either way it sounds like bad news for you and we consumers.   I wonder if there is a positive way to incentivize you to manufacturing in the US (like tax breaks) instead of a negative way to deter you from manufacturing oversees. 

Rich

Rich Battista posted:

Scott,  I appreciate the real world example. 

Question for you.  When Trump says "there will be consequences" for companies manufacturing oversees, I assume he means companies like yours.  Do you know what the "consequences" are?  Taxes, penalties, laws..??  Either way it sounds like bad news for you and we consumers.   I wonder if there is a positive way to incentivize you to manufacturing in the US (like tax breaks) instead of a negative way to deter you from manufacturing oversees. 

Rich

Interesting. However, I would think that Mr. Trump just might be referring to much, much, MUCH larger corporations that have moved their manufacturing and HEADQUARTERS out of the U.S..

645 - No need to drop me a note as the Amtrak ones were always going to be based on the PRR models with the lift rings on the nose, the slab pilot and other PRR specific details less the trainphone antenna.  As I recall they only had one steam generator and not two, but I have the Wither's book that shows a roster shot of every PRR E8.  We won't be able to cover the portholes at this time as that does involve a little trick with the tooling from what I understand.  However, depending on what the final variation matrix shows, it may or may not be possible.  No promises, but who knows?  I'm working on road specific detailing next week.  

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Nobody I know can make a decent carefree living in the USA on $15/hour (approx. $32K annually)

David

 

I agree David, but I'd say $45,000/yr.  One of my daughter's works at a big Philly-owned bank in Va. Beach.  She lives with 3 other people to make ends meet.

Back in the early 90s you could buy an affordable home in Va, not anymore.  The prices are almost as high as they are in San Diego (I knew a sailor at Mare Island that lived in a rented garage with a dirt floor with his pregnant wife back in 1980, that's all he could afford and couldn't get into on-base housing).

There's just enough people living comfortably (2-job families) in the US that they don't see the toll low-paying jobs are taking on the young people in this country.  Unless they live at home with mom&pop or someone else I doubt we'll see many of them post on this forum.

IMO the middle class is gone.  It's now the (1) wealthy, (2) rich, (3) living carefree, (4) fortunate to just squeak by, (5) struggling to make ends meet, (6) can't make ends meet, (7) always broke, and (8) homeless and hungry.  The middle class has been reduced to 4-5 sub-classes.

The manufacturing situation is what it is and won't be changing as I see it.  So, Jonathan,is my Pennsy A-A with whiskers slated for production?  How about a few insights on this model ?

Norm

Trump will probably use incentives to bring jobs back to the US combined with product tariffs. The huge capital investments required to retool for domestic manufacturing and the needed expense of interning and retraining a modern  labor force will require financial incentives. I'm sure investors will be happy to support these activities for the future payoffs will be large. 

There is certainly nothing wrong with the American worker, witness all the foreign auto companies manufacturing here, Toyota, Honda, BMW, MB etc..

 Finally, I don't see anything wrong with families having grown kids live at home while establishing themselves. Especially where it is expensive to live.

It's only the slackers that become a problem.

I've said enough.

Ron H

GG1 4877 posted:

645 - No need to drop me a note as the Amtrak ones were always going to be based on the PRR models with the lift rings on the nose, the slab pilot and other PRR specific details less the trainphone antenna.  As I recall they only had one steam generator and not two, but I have the Wither's book that shows a roster shot of every PRR E8.  We won't be able to cover the portholes at this time as that does involve a little trick with the tooling from what I understand.  However, depending on what the final variation matrix shows, it may or may not be possible.  No promises, but who knows?  I'm working on road specific detailing next week.  

Really?    

They might possibly come with both the freight and passenger pilots because that is an screw-on part.

No porthole delete.  Builder veto.   Too many different physical variations.

I remember when my Korean friend had to get his wisdom teeth pulled. It's a modern setup in Korea. They sterilize the tools, but do things manually. He paid $60 / tooth for the extraction. Here it would cost thousands. Some of my neighbors here in CA are folding up their small businesses and taking low wage jobs at various chain market stores here to get the free healthcare for their family. I am now paying $2000/ month for a family of 4 with huge deductibles that you only meet if you are in a car accident and hospitalized. Only 5 years ago my health  insurance was only $500 / month. The costs are prohibitive. But you don't want your loved one's uninsured.

As far as bringing these projects to the US, they are too small, and the costs are too high, so it's either find a factory willing to make them over there, or cancel them. There is no automation in custom sets such as our Aluminum cars. They are hand polished, painted and lettered to get out all the extrusion marks. Only plastic cars can be made in mass. Not 50 sets at a time such as what we are doing. But as long as we can make them for a reasonable price, we will continue.

Scott - Jetlagging.

The sunset/3rd rail website shows Missouri Pacific E units as reinstated! 

I eamiled Scott already to confirm this and it is true. Better yet they will be made in the much requested Eagle paint scheme. Just thought I'd share the good news with everyone. Now if we can only get a Golden Gate Depot Colorado Eagle!!!

Bob Delbridge posted:

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Nobody I know can make a decent carefree living in the USA on $15/hour (approx. $32K annually)

David

 

I agree David, but I'd say $45,000/yr.  One of my daughter's works at a big Philly-owned bank in Va. Beach.  She lives with 3 other people to make ends meet.

Back in the early 90s you could buy an affordable home in Va, not anymore.  The prices are almost as high as they are in San Diego (I knew a sailor at Mare Island that lived in a rented garage with a dirt floor with his pregnant wife back in 1980, that's all he could afford and couldn't get into on-base housing).

There's just enough people living comfortably (2-job families) in the US that they don't see the toll low-paying jobs are taking on the young people in this country.  Unless they live at home with mom&pop or someone else I doubt we'll see many of them post on this forum.

IMO the middle class is gone.  It's now the (1) wealthy, (2) rich, (3) living carefree, (4) fortunate to just squeak by, (5) struggling to make ends meet, (6) can't make ends meet, (7) always broke, and (8) homeless and hungry.  The middle class has been reduced to 4-5 sub-classes.

Any interesting observation. IIRC Hillary said she was middle class earning $150,000 per year when Bill got elected to the White House. My older friends are in two camps, those who say 2008 was a recession and we are past it and those who say it was a modern depression where the taxpayers bailed out the banks and stock market and from which we will never recover for there to again be a middle class like the 50's and 60's. Their example being the only high wage union jobs are now government employees. We shall see.

Glad to see Scott can continue to bring these products to market.

BobbyD posted:

Their example being the only high wage union jobs are now government employees. We shall see.

I wouldn't exactly call government employees "high wage".

When I retired from working for Uncle Sam (almost 10 years ago) the typical government worker was getting paid 20-25% less than the average civilian doing the same job.  In civil service it doesn't matter if you're in the union or not, a GS-12 gets paid the same as any other GS-12 (if they're the same pay step).  Not to mention the fact that the civil servant is the whipping boy anytime there's a cry to reduce expenditures.

And yes, I too hope Scott can continue on with these projects.  The language barrier alone would be enough to make most folks give up.

Dave, yeah, there is a lot of difference in locality pay.

My daughter's in Sicily on the last year of a 3-year stint.  She says she could write a book on things they DON'T tell you when you take a job overseas, she would never have done it had she known.

When I retired I interviewed with one of the contractors that worked for us.  They knew how much I would be getting in retirement and offered about 1/2 that.  During the interview I could see the traffic backing up at the tunnel between Norfolk and Portsmouth and when I got home I told my wife that I wasn't going to take the job!  Best move I ever made

You young punks hold out for all you can get   Work hard and make sure they pay you for it

Received email requesting confirmation of commitment to purchase my preoder of three E8 units today (Oct 2). Delivery anticipated to be March 2017.

Sort'a "last call." Anyone who wants one of these from 3-rd Rail better speak up NOW!

Looking forward to mine.

If I order two powered A units of the same road name will I get each A with a different cab number?

Thanks,

George

WakeForestRR posted:

If I order two powered A units of the same road name will I get each A with a different cab number?

Thanks,

George

I would suggest that you eMail Scott directly, and ask him that question.

We would be foolish to ship anyone 2 of the same engine number. So we don't.

Milwaukee Yellow Reinstated for Run #1

Here's a picture of our SD7s and 9s after inspection. Should be done here next week.

Come on guys....lets get the RF&P reinstated too!!!!

Scott, which ones are mine? 

Scott, That pic of the SD7/9s is so sweet.

sdmann posted:

Milwaukee Yellow Reinstated for Run #1

Here's a picture of our SD7s and 9s after inspection. Should be done here next week.

 

Scott, Just to confirm You did have the CB&Q/C&S SD9 that I reserved painted in  Chinese red. Also I have not recived any emails from you guys on when do you need the money.

suzukovich posted:

Scott, Just to confirm You did have the CB&Q/C&S SD9 that I reserved painted in  Chinese red. Also I have not recived any emails from you guys on when do you need the money.

Received "first invoice" for my  E8 units on Dec. 29, 2016. Presume all who ordered received the same. Anticipated delivery in March. While the invoice states "Please send with payment," invoice says cards  will not actually be charged until the engines are close to shipping.

It seems a long wait for these engines, nearly two years from announcement to delivery, but I'm looking forward to finally getting them!