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I do not know if the GP 40-2 will do any better on reservations, because of Scotts minimum run of these models extra tooling costs would be an issue beyond the basic Hi-Lo hood options. At price points above 750 inc shipping these models fall into the gotta have buyer, a lot of buyers [myself included prefer to buy modern diesels in pairs] I suspect a newer GEVO would be a better choice to solicit reservations for, hey it does not hurt to troll the market at this point. JMO

I dont really think GP40s would do any better than SD40s, but that's just me.

Why they continue to ignore FP45s after 2 runs of El Capitans cars is beyond me. 

Well, this is the traditional forum, so as long as were asking here, I'd think it'd be GREAT if they stepped up to the plate and did some 027 models. It'd be super to have modern equivalent to 1950 period design Alco FA. Something selectively compressed so that it doesn't look like a shoebox on wheels, to look right at home on 027 curves with 027/O gauge rolling stock!

I'll pre-order that one!

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

Well, this is the traditional forum, so as long as were asking here, I'd think it'd be GREAT if they stepped up to the plate and did some 027 models.

This may be the "traditional forum", but Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot does NOT produce anything but full SCALE models. That is their "nitch market". Lionel, MTH, Williams by Bachman, and RMT have been taking care of the 027 "toy trains" market, very well.

It'd be super to have modern equivalent to 1950 period design Alco FA. Something selectively compressed so that it doesn't look like a shoebox on wheels, to look right at home on 027 curves with 027/O gauge rolling stock!

I'll pre-order that one!

DaveJfr0 posted:

Scott's November newsletter I received today mentioned a lot of cool things arriving soon.  Hidden near the end, he mentioned that the SD40-2 is not reserving well, so he may switch it over to the GP40-2, but wants our (customer) thoughts.....

 

.....Thoughts on the ability to "easily" tool across 5 different models?  Is it even realistic or are there too many differences that would make that hard? 

 

Most if not all the models from gp38 through gp40-2 share essentially the same frame with I think some changes in steps and plate thicknesses thrown in along the way just to muck things up.  But I don't think any of the changes would be deal breakers in O scale.

Above the frame is where the problems lie.  Mostly in the long hoods.  But even without digging too deep into phase changes, there are a lot of variations to address.  So modular tooling would be the only way to go, but the modules start to get pretty specific.

The big difference between pre and post -2 locos of either the 38 or 40 series is the arrangement of radiator section hood doors, which are ordered differently.  Of course the sight glass is typically also a tell for the -2 models.  

The big difference between 38 and 40 series locos, without regard to -2 features, is the longer radiator screens and addtional radiator fan for the 40 series locomotive.

The engine compartment hoods are all essentially the same.  But the inertial air filter area of the hoods has some differences too.  So you would need a minimum of four radiator sections (five actually if you account for gp38-2 fan spacing changes), at least two clean air sections (blower duct and inertial screen/hatch), and then all the "little" different parts like cabs (2+), battery boxes (2+), noses (3+), dynamic brake hatches (2+), dynamic fans (2), and radiator fans (2).  The (+) in the list kind of represents road specific extras or phase differences.  The good thing is that many of the smaller sub-assembly parts like fans and noses can be used across multiple EMD products.  If the basic multi-purpose parts like cabs, noses, and fans were tooled, then multiple models in both 4 and 6 axle versions could be produced by tooling new hoods and frames.  Not trying to over simplify here, but it can be done.

Cannon and Company has a nice EMD parts utilization matrix on their website under the "Links" link.  It's based on implementing their parts, but you can start to pick out where parts are new and where they are reusable.

Jim

I honestly don't think there is a market right now for either. Lionel has been doing the BTO SD40's and MTH has been doing GP38-2's. That along with being a rather high price point in my opinion is what is hurting reservations.

I would like to see a 70’s vintage Auto Train with the GE U36B and all the variety of passenger cars that Auto Train purchased, including the full domes,

I would be in for the GP40-2 but as said above the price point is the deal braker.  At over $700+ one would be it as it's more cost effective to strip and rebuild a Weaver models GP38 to a GP40-2.

I have no interest in a GP38, GP38-2, GP 39-2 since those models look awfully similar plus the have been done to death between k-line, MTH, and Weaver models.

It seems to this point Sunsets niche market is late steam and first generation diesels, perhaps FAs and Alco RS3, RSD4 and5s, bear in mind the Atlas units have oversize hoods and the Weavers suspect drives. JMO

Wow, I never thought Scott would have a hard time getting enough reservations for the SD-40.  

hibar posted:

It seems to this point Sunsets niche market is late steam and first generation diesels, perhaps FAs and Alco RS3, RSD4 and5s, bear in mind the Atlas units have oversize hoods and the Weavers suspect drives. JMO

Numerous requests have been made for ALCO road switchers over the years .... Scott feels that the market is saturated with them. 

I would have splurged on a couple of these expensive models.

On one of the prior 3rd Rail SD40-2 threads, (discussing the low reservations), a poster mentioned that the 'sweet spot' of the O Gauge market is the steam to diesel transition period.

I believe this to be 100% true.

I have SD40-2s reserved with Scott, and am still hopeful that these units are produced.

A GP4OPH-2 would be really sweet, but these units have a longer frame than a GP40.

I also believe that a GP7 or 9 project (if announced by Scott) would come to fruition.

I don't think it's the cost, just that the target audience is in an earlier period

No question but F units have been run many times and Scott still had success with those, at some point Sunset will be looking for new projects, hard to accurately gauge market demand until you solicit reservations, just saying.

Maybe Scott should put out there Babyface Baldwin covered wagons for NYC, cnj and other Northeast and Midwest 1st generation units- even possibly the CNJ "double-ender"

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Maybe Scott should put out there Babyface Baldwin covered wagons for NYC, cnj and other Northeast and Midwest 1st generation units- even possibly the CNJ "double-ender"

Sure, and just how many purchasers throughout the U.S.A. will order enough of THOSE?

Just my two cents here.   Sunset does just scale models and very good ones from what I seen.  To run scale modern diesels you need a large layout - 0-72, 0-54 curves and switches.    I think new layouts that are getting built are trending to that end but what percent of us guys have smaller layouts and run 0-27,0-31,-036?  I love scale modern diesels but I can't run the monsters on my layout.    The guys that buy the $1000 dollar 0-54 train are a lot smaller group then us little guys.   Now I run scale cars and run mostly 4 axle GP's and I have two Lionmaster - 6 axle diesels.    I think a lot of us would love to see a modern 2017 made switcher - such as the Genset but have it run on 0-31 with TMCC or Legacy or Lionchief plus.   I know MTH has a genset for 0-31 but I am a Lionel guy - no disrespect to MTH and MTH users.

Thanks all for your thoughts.  I had SD40-2's on reservation too, which is surprising and unfortunate that the numbers aren't there.  Will have to plan without or get it somewhere else.   I don't disagree with some of the thoughts posted; I think the focus of Scott's core customers is also around the transition era, which is why everything to date has done so well, even when examples of these have been done thousands of times before.

It didn't and can't hurt to feel out some other second generation diesels.  It was an interesting announcement from Scott and I was seeing if my thoughts on trying to widen the audience of the tooling was one that made sense. Jim provided a lot of things for Scott to look at and consider, if Scott continues or wants to invest in second generation EMD tooling and get the most bang for his buck out of it. Hopefully whatever Scott announces next, gets the quantity he needs for both himself and modelers to be happy.

I would surely purchase whatever was offered that made sense for my railroad, if they ever come to market.  MTH and Weaver models sounds like a good backup plan for the GP38/GP40's if one or both of these model types fall short of reservations required.

Too bad the numbers aren't there.

These are arriving next month for those who need an SD40-2 fix

There are 2 locos I would like to see, SD24 (air tanks on top) and my favorite Milwaukee's SDL-39, please!

Dick

Scott and I talk on average every couple of weeks about what projects to do and the SD40-2 seemed to be a good candidate to attempt for a more modern diesel than what has typically been offered by Sunset/3rd Rail. But the SD40-2 did not come close to having sufficient reservations.

As has been noted in previous comments on this forum possibly modern power (meaning after steam power was gone) is not a good fit for Sunset / 3rd Rail. With that in mind look for what we consider to be a "good" diesel announcement from Sunset early next year.

Former DT&I GP40-2 repainted in the Grand Trunk Western scheme is my first choice. 

Then I would choose C&O Chessie System as my second choice for a GP40-2. 

Andrew

I too would order a SD 40. But Scott has brought out so many engines at the same time, I think some peoples pocket books are getting low. I ordered a lot of engines from them, plus the El Captain set. Scott is going an awesome job and I think both engines will come through in time.

rheil posted:

Scott and I talk on average every couple of weeks about what projects to do and the SD40-2 seemed to be a good candidate to attempt for a more modern diesel than what has typically been offered by Sunset/3rd Rail. But the SD40-2 did not come close to having sufficient reservations.

As has been noted in previous comments on this forum possibly modern power (meaning after steam power was gone) is not a good fit for Sunset / 3rd Rail. With that in mind look for what we consider to be a "good" diesel announcement from Sunset early next year.

I wish you would make that "good diesel announcement" now. I'm putting substantial money into Atlas 2-rail engines now, I would like to know Sunset's offerings before I'm broke.

Happy railroading.

rheil posted:

Scott and I talk on average every couple of weeks about what projects to do and the SD40-2 seemed to be a good candidate to attempt for a more modern diesel than what has typically been offered by Sunset/3rd Rail. But the SD40-2 did not come close to having sufficient reservations.

As has been noted in previous comments on this forum possibly modern power (meaning after steam power was gone) is not a good fit for Sunset / 3rd Rail. With that in mind look for what we consider to be a "good" diesel announcement from Sunset early next year.

Although the only thing I have purchased from 3rd Rail was an ACL express reefer, I have had some interest in the locomotives, just not the funds. Seeing what has been put out by Atlas, Lionel & MTH, there does seem to be plenty of overlap of similar models. 

Here is what I propose as possible "transition era" diesel locomotives:

GP30 - Lionel has put this out for several years, but with some issues. I think a properly done, scale version, with LH/HH and DB/NDB versions should sell well. Railroads seemed to skip the GP18 and GP20 models, making the GP30 extremely popular in the 1960s - 70s era. Non-Powered units would need to be offered since many railroads ran them in 3-4 unit consists (or lash-ups?) on their fastest time freights.

SW1200 / 1500 - This switcher would be perfect for those who have limited space but want the quality and look of a scale model. Most switchers made are NW2 or SW8/9 versions, and these were made, depending on model, from 1954 - 1970s. 

I would also add GE U Boats, but the their 1960s era models - U25B, U33B and U36B were somewhat limited by railroads that purchased them. 

The way people use SD40 to mean SD40-2 on this thread may be part of the reservation problem.

Eccentric Crank posted:

The way people use SD40 to mean SD40-2 on this thread may be part of the reservation problem.

And there we have the POST OF THE DAY!!!!!!!!

It gets even more confusing when you realize that some railroads have rebuilt their SD40's to SD40-2 specifications or designate rebuilds as -3's like the Wheeling & Lake Erie does.

Anyways, I emailed Scott and informed him that I would be interested in 3 Chessie System GP40-2's but I also have 2 W&LE SD40-2's reserved and that project is dead in the water. It's too bad because nobody has yet to make an SD40-2 that is even remotely close to being correct except for brass imported models.

Midwestern Model Works is taking reservations for their SD40-2's but at close to $3000 per model I don't want one that bad. Luckily Atlas makes a great SD40 but it will probably be a few years before we see another run. I don't believe Atlas when they state a 3rd Quarter 2018 delivery. I'm fine with either an SD40 or -2 variant so long as it looks the part.

if Scott is going to do a GP40-2 I would go for two Rio Grande

can,t find a decent two rail model right now

Cor

I'd rather have Lionel do a GP40-2. Sunset/ GGD makes great stuff, but I just can't justify spending that much on a diesel. 

I wouldn't. Given Lionel's track record lately half of them will be defective.

We all know how popular the SD40-2 are and how many manufacturers have modeled them. I like how Lionel took a slightly different path with thier SD40's. I prefer the look of the shorter framed SD40's myself. I'm slowly building a fleet of them.

Catnip more like they will be incorrect detailwise!

What about an ALCo Fa-1? Or an ALco T6? 

GP 7-9's!

falconservice posted:

Former DT&I GP40-2 repainted in the Grand Trunk Western scheme is my first choice. 

Then I would choose C&O Chessie System as my second choice for a GP40-2. 

Andrew

Yes. Absolutely Yes.
I'll take two. Solid pilots and Kadee couplers in 3 Rail, please! 
And make sure the blue isn't too dark.

My opinion is that moving from the 1/48 SD40-2 to the 1/48 GP40-2 looks fine. There were so many different roads and versions that could also include passenger versions and the GP40X. Certainly, those persons that don't have a large enough layout for an O Scale locomotive of that size or don't care about prototypical appearance won't reserve, although I recall all runs of the 3 rail Atlas O GP60 selling out so I really don't think correct scale diminsions and details is an issue, really. As for price point, well, just try finding an O Scale GP40-2 any where. The Overland versions, when available on ebay, run well beyond $700 even if painted, and none will have any electronics, being DC powered from a time before the land of DCC and DCS. If you want less than a scale model in 2 rail or 3 rail, you have Lionel and MTH to fall back to, although, face it, you get what you pay for and if you are satisfied with less, well, to each their own, I say. I do think it is always funny, however, when folks, both 2 rail and 3, say a new model is too big, when they have 60 and 70 foot shorty passenger cars, SD70ACes, and ES44s. Just a thought. 

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

GP 7-9's!

 

I believe that's another locomotive that the folks at Sunset feel already has market saturation. I would have enjoyed a nicely done GP7 from them, or two.

MrMuffin Steve recently stated here that the Atlas GP7's are about to go into production, so I've increased my order for $440 undecorated 2-rail engines.

Looks like I'm never going to own a 3rd Rail diesel. 

this is a GP38-2 with scale wheels.

https://mthtrains.com/20-20072-2

I thought it was a GP40. MTH made one sometime back but not specifically 2 rail.

https://mthtrains.com/20-2657-1

2006

The GM-EMD GP40-2 would be a compliment from what ATLAS O and LIONEL have produced. 

I would like to get an ex-DTI Grand Trunk Western GP40-2 diesel-electric locomotive with TMCC and RailSounds. The bell can be left in the nose. 

Andrew