I just lucked up on this 4-4-2 3rail scale. It has a puffing smoke and i want to make it fan driven.
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Those are nice locos; mine is in the "proper" ( 
) PRR scheme. Runs beautifully, although I like my Williams E6 better...maybe.
Did either B&O or ATSF have any Belpaire firebox engines like this? I know the Pennsy had some big ATSF engines, but...?
Mark in Oregon
For a brief period prior to WW I, PRR owned controlling interest in the B&O. During that period there were 2 classes of locos built for B&O that were based on PRR designs. There may have been more.
One of the locos was an Atlantic 4-4-2. It was not an E6 as the Lionel model is, it was based on the earlier smaller E2 Atlantic that Pennsy had quite a few. the other loco was a 2-8-0 based on the PRR H6. This was also an early PRR consolidation much smaller than the H10 that MTH and Lionel have done.
In both cases, the details were different. I think that had different cabs and headlights at least. I think there were other visual differences. However, they did have the Belpaire fireboxes.
The "big" AT&SF steamers that PRR leased in the mid 1950s were 2-10-4s. They were big and spent their time working coal drags from columbus OH to Sandusky. The coal went into Ore boats.
I thought I remembered that some PRR 2-8-2 went to ATSF, so I looked it up.
4 were sold to Lehigh & New England
2 were sold to Cambria And Indiana
3 Were sold to ATSF
2 were sold to the Interstate RR
2 were sold to the Detroit Toledo & Ironton
@prrjim posted:One of the locos was an Atlantic 4-4-2. It was not an E6 as the Lionel model is, it was based on the earlier smaller E2 Atlantic that Pennsy had quite a few. the other loco was a 2-8-0 based on the PRR H6. This was also an early PRR consolidation much smaller than the H10 that MTH and Lionel have done.
There were several sub-classes of H6 over time. The H3 is what I think of from MTH. I do however have an H1 that was a LWS kit. I would love to have another but that's unlikely to happen. Just not enough modelers of that era. I always wanted an E1 or an E2.
In both cases, the details were different. I think that had different cabs and headlights at least. I think there were other visual differences. However, they did have the Belpaire fireboxes.
Some of the H6 sub-classes included large vs. narrow Belpaire fireboxes. There were a lot of variations to these locomotives over a lot of years.
Thanks for all the historical information! Does anyone have any recommendations on upgrading to fan driven smoke? I love this loco and plan to do as much as possible to it.
@O G Beginner STL posted:Thanks for all the historical information! Does anyone have any recommendations on upgrading to fan driven smoke? I love this loco and plan to do as much as possible to it.
Well, it's not exactly a best beginner project. It requires understanding how the mechanical and electrical systems interact, and further, you have a limited amount of space.
It's starts out with a plan- understanding the space and requirements- and then searching and finding an smoke unit small enough and other details of what you may need to retain- example chuff switch, or if bypassing that, then understanding and accounting for using something like the Chuff generator. Depending on what smoke unit you choose, you might also then need a Super Chuffer II to control the fan and provide additional features.
Again, step 1, know what you have, and determine what you need and are keeping or upgrading. Do that by going to Lionel support for your product ID. https://www.lionelsupport.com/ and then enter that product ID 6-18096 https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-2-E-6-Atlantic-1491
I typically open the parts breakdown picture on a separate tab in my browser to expand it and zoom in.
Some key things here- like #16 is the chuff switch, and that is connected to all the mechanical linkage to drive the smoke piston. So if you wanted puffing smoke synced with the sound, and you are retaining that switch- we'd have to account for that in the space budget.
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I start with the smallest smoke unit I can find for something like the Atlantic.
The 691SGSUA01 is a good start.
In the simplest case, you can just change the resistor in this to a 20 to 27 ohm 2W wirewound resistor, connect it to the smoke output power and have smoke. One additional issue, you do need 5VDC to run the fan, a small power module will supply the 40-50 milliamps you need. For constant smoke, I just power that 5V supply from the smoke output from the electronics, that turns off the fan when you turn off the smoke.
If you want full chuffing smoke, then you might want to see if you can fit the Super-Chuffer II in, it also removes the need for that 5V power supply.
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Hey @gunrunnerjohn, I think I like the super chuffer direction best.
thanks everyone for the history and suggestions! Getting out the ruler and soldiering iron.
Well Vernon has the right idea. First evaluate what will realistically fit. I'm pretty sure that smoke unit will, but if you want the Super-Chuffer, you have to find a place for it to live.
The Super-Chuffer is fabricated on a very small printed circuit board with the dimensions of 0.9" x 1" in size. The
overall height including components is approximately 0.5" tall. I normally encase it in heatshink so I can cram in in anywhere it'll fit.
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Vernon, thank you too for the clear message. I’ll follow up with before and after as long as i don’t burn something up in the process 😂
@Vernon Barry posted:
Well, it's not exactly a best beginner project. It requires understanding how the mechanical and electrical systems interact, and further, you have a limited amount of space.
It's starts out with a plan- understanding the space and requirements- and then searching and finding an smoke unit small enough and other details of what you may need to retain- example chuff switch, or if bypassing that, then understanding and accounting for using something like the Chuff generator. Depending on what smoke unit you choose, you might also then need a Super Chuffer II to control the fan and provide additional features.
Again, step 1, know what you have, and determine what you need and are keeping or upgrading. Do that by going to Lionel support for your product ID. https://www.lionelsupport.com/ and then enter that product ID 6-18096 https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-2-E-6-Atlantic-1491
I typically open the parts breakdown picture on a separate tab in my browser to expand it and zoom in.
Some key things here- like #16 is the chuff switch, and that is connected to all the mechanical linkage to drive the smoke piston. So if you wanted puffing smoke synced with the sound, and you are retaining that switch- we'd have to account for that in the space budget.
It's kinda' difficult to retain the switch and not have all that junk get in the way of the new fan driven smoke unit.
My traction tires on this same model are shot and I don’t have the tool to remove the side nut. Does Lionel sell those or will I need to grab some needle nose pliers and pray?
Don't attack it with pliers, that usually really marks things up. The tool is a 5mm socket driver, they come with most engines. I have a whole drawer full of them!
hey John,
No, I have a 5mm driver that came with one of my other engines. It’s too big. I even tried a 4mm which was still too big. Maybe I’m headed in the wrong direction.
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That's not less than a 4mm head, I think you need to look again. FWIW, I grind the driver so it's thinner and also flat on the front to better made with the head of the rod bolt. I'd bet money that's a 5mm head on that one.
The bolt is #66 on this page: https://www.lionelsupport.com/...Loco-Only-6108096001
The indicated shank is 2.5mm, and the head is twice that, it's a 5mm hex head.
