6414 Automobiles

IMHO, the easiest way to tell is to look at the molding of the car body. Check the ribs that run the length of the car. Check the little cast in medallions on the front and back of the car. They were crisp on the original cars, and are not crisp on the reproductions.

I just looked at the Tandem Associates web site. They put some effort into keeping the site accurate. They say an original car is 4 - 5/16 including the bumpers, measured along one edge. And a reproduction car is 4 - 1/4 (4/16).  So, there is a difference of 1/16. I would find that a bit hard to measure, being that the ends of the car fairly irregular.

As for Doyle: there is a big difference between 5/16 and 15/16.

I have always wondered about the axles on these cars.

I think that every original car I have seen had the ends of the axles formed into little dumbbells. It dresses the ends up, and probably helps to keep the wheels on.
Every reproduction car I have seen has the ends of the axles just cut, not finished.
Has anyone seen original cars with cut end axles?

 Hey CW, I Agree with everything you said above. In explaining to my friend the difference, I went through the ribs that run the length of the car, the door scribings which on the originals line up perfectly on either side of the rib where on the reproductions, most have a slight off set and everything went well until I told him I thought the originals were 4 5/8 long and he pointed out the 4 5/16 in Doyle’s catalog.

I guess I’m a little confused in that the cars I have that came with the 6414 when it was bought new and has been in my family ever since has cars that are  4 5/8” long.

Jim

I got out my copy of  "Postwar Lionel Reproduction Handbook Guide", which was written by Joe Algozzini and published by the TCA in 2000.
I do not see where the book gives dimensions, but it does have a full sized photo of both an original and a reproduction automobile for comparison.
I put a ruler to the photos, the results are below.
Measured from the back with the rear bumper against a flat object, to the pointy center of the front bumper:
Original: 4-5/8
Reproduction: 4-1/2

I had some reproduction automobiles handy, so I did a direct measurement: 4-1/2 inches.

I have some original automobiles on cars somewhere, but I'd have to dig to find them.

I'd appreciate your looking at your original automobiles to see whether the ends of the axles are just cut, or if they are formed.

FWIW the ends of the axles on the only original automobiles on which I have laid hands are formed, like rivet heads.  Easier to notice if you click on the photo to enlarge.  Know they are original, because they are in a set that has been in the family since purchased new in 1963.

I checked my autos, some original, some repros. All the cars I have have cut axles. I checked the lengths with a digital caliper.   The original cars only varied in length by about .002 inches. The lengths if the original cars were as follows: 4.650, 4.652, 4.645, 4.651, 4.651.  As info 5/8 is .625 and 21/32 is .656.  So original cars are a little longer than 4 5/8". The lengths of the repro cars were as follows: 4.528, 4.546, 4.531, 4.510,  4.531, 4.527, 4.518, 4.530.  As info 17/32 is .532 and 9/16 is .562.  So repro cars are less than 4 9/16" long. 

C W Burfle posted:

I got out my copy of  "Postwar Lionel Reproduction Handbook Guide", which was written by Joe Algozzini and published by the TCA in 2000.
I do not see where the book gives dimensions, but it does have a full sized photo of both an original and a reproduction automobile for comparison.
I put a ruler to the photos, the results are below.
Measured from the back with the rear bumper against a flat object, to the pointy center of the front bumper:
Original: 4-5/8
Reproduction: 4-1/2

I had some reproduction automobiles handy, so I did a direct measurement: 4-1/2 inches.

I have some original automobiles on cars somewhere, but I'd have to dig to find them.

I'd appreciate your looking at your original automobiles to see whether the ends of the axles are just cut, or if they are formed.

This is correct.

C W Burfle posted:

IMHO, the easiest way to tell is to look at the molding of the car body. Check the ribs that run the length of the car. Check the little cast in medallions on the front and back of the car. They were crisp on the original cars, and are not crisp on the reproductions.

I just looked at the Tandem Associates web site. They put some effort into keeping the site accurate. They say an original car is 4 - 5/16 including the bumpers, measured along one edge. And a reproduction car is 4 - 1/4 (4/16).  So, there is a difference of 1/16. I would find that a bit hard to measure, being that the ends of the car fairly irregular.

As for Doyle: there is a big difference between 5/16 and 15/16.

I have always wondered about the axles on these cars.

I think that every original car I have seen had the ends of the axles formed into little dumbbells. It dresses the ends up, and probably helps to keep the wheels on.
Every reproduction car I have seen has the ends of the axles just cut, not finished.
Has anyone seen original cars with cut end axles?

 

I just bought an original 6414 last month. My cars are original and the axles on all of them look cut. I checked them when I was doing some research since I am new to the post world. None of them have rounded or formed ends.

So far there have been a couple of folks stating that they have original automobiles with cut axles. So I guess that cannot be used as a tell.

Thanks to those that checked.

Mike D posted:

I just bought an original 6414 last month. My cars are original and the axles on all of them look cut. I checked them when I was doing some research since I am new to the post world. None of them have rounded or formed ends.

How do you know the cars are original if you just bought them?

What, me worry?

How does everyone keep the autos from moving around when the train is moving?  I don't use my 6414 because the autos all seem like they will roll off one end of the moving car.

Dale

I have piece of black plastic tape across the top level.

In my experience, the automobiles will move around when the 6414 auto loader is being handled. Maybe a little bit when the flat is being pulled in a train. I have never seen the cars move enough to roll off the end. So I don't worry about securing them.

I used small square magnets bought from the dollar store and placed them ahead and behind the wheels of each car.  The superstructure as we know is metal.

The cars stay in place.....kinda like chocks ahead and behind the wheels.

Here’s a thread I did a while back showing what kind of magnets I used to keep the cars from rolling around:

https://ogrforum.com/...oader-autos-stay-put

Alfred E Neuman posted:

Mike D posted:

I just bought an original 6414 last month. My cars are original and the axles on all of them look cut. I checked them when I was doing some research since I am new to the post world. None of them have rounded or formed ends.

How do you know the cars are original if you just bought them?

What, me worry?

When I bought it is irrelevant. It was made between 55-57. I can post some pics and let everyone take a look and provide some feedback. I'll get a shot of the axle ends as well.

Here are some pics of my 6414 and a couple of the cars. Hopefully these pics will answer some questions that have been posted here. The axles on my cars are definitely cut. They look original to me. If anyone has any information to contradict that, please let me know. I posted a picture of the car on a sheet of graph paper with a ruler to show how long mine are. They look to be about 4 11/16" to me, could be 5/8". The ends of the decks have a slight upturn to prevent the cars from coming off the car. Mine roll a little when starting and stopping, but none have come off. Could be that the freight cars on each end helped out.