UPDATE: Track AC Powered Marker Led Board for Cabeese

I got the link to your new topic, Rod!

All aboard!!

Rod, very interesting, let me know when you have tested them. I have a lot of cabeese on the roster that would look good with LED lighting and not wasting a pax module on.

@Ron_S posted:

Rod, very interesting, let me know when you have tested them. I have a lot of cabeese on the roster that would look good with LED lighting and not wasting a pax module on.

Ron no worries, I will let you know. Did you get moved into your new place OK?

You're getting to be a regular PCB design shop, I've unleashed a monster!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You're getting to be a regular PCB design shop, I've unleashed a monster!

Haha you keep saying that; I should be used to it by now! (My wife would agree I’m sure but I’m not letting her know what you said!)

Truth be told, I owe you a big debt of gratitude in getting me quickly up the Diptrace learning curve back several years ago. You were very helpful and sharing with insights into the world of circuit and pcb design, which I didn’t have any experience with, and it’s much appreciated. For most of us forumites electronics was not our prime focus in our working careers. But I believe you spent your career in Avionics, which is pretty specialized stuff, and it shows. So a big shout out to you for all the help you have provided to myself as well as many others on the forum! Bravo!

So even us old dogs can still learn new tricks!

Rod

Wow!  I didn’t know John started you off from base one on this, Rod!  I worked in electronics for 43 years but don’t have any experience designing this stuff.  It’s a very broad field of work.

@gunrunnerjohn and @Rod Stewart have helped all of us out a lot with lighting. Currently retrofitting my passenger cars with your boards. I will be using this board for cabeese it looks like once testing is done. Great work and thanks

I get a chuckle out of Rod, he shows up with a new PCB every couple weeks, the shipping companies must love him!

@Mark Boyce posted:

Wow!  I didn’t know John started you off from base one on this, Rod!  I worked in electronics for 43 years but don’t have any experience designing this stuff.  It’s a very broad field of work.

Truth is I worked for 43 years in oil and gas, and loved it. I would probably still be working except I was coerced into retirement by you-know-who. But I have always enjoyed electronics as a hobby. Heck I still have my 1960's Weller 100-140 watt soldering gun. And it still works great! Better than I do haha.

But grj brought me into the world of circuit design using software like DipTrace, and designing pcb's from those designs. Others I have to thank as well are rtr12, and Stan2004. Hope I didn't miss anyone. It's all in keeping with what this forum does best: a place for the sharing of information and where hobbyists help hobbyists. It's all good.

Rod

@Rod Stewart  We did Rod, the house is finished, the hangups are the pool and my new garage/train room. The footings were dug in August and to date I have a 80% completed pool (Being as it is winter no big deal) and 60% done Garage. I am going stir crazy waiting on trades to finish off the stucco, electric, door, insulation and sheetrock so I can finally start on my new train room.

The building is 20x45 with the front 20x20 for my classic car, wood working, reloading and welding puttering.

The back 20x25 is my new train room, I have been waiting nearly 3 years for this since my old layout was torn down as sold the old place. I walk through the current garage and see all the stacked boxes and materials for it daily, which is a tease and torture. I spend 2-3 days a week at the club to get my fix but all my locomotives, cars and accessories are packed in the same cartons the movers stuffed them in in 2021.

It will be like Christmas when I get the benchwork done, so I can unbox the 50 plus boxes, make sure the different buildings and goodies are usable and begin making my empire once more. I am doing my third rework of proposed benchwork, trying to fine tune it before I begin building, the last layout plus working on others have enlightened me as to what I don't want.

@Rod Stewart posted:

Truth is I worked for 43 years in oil and gas, and loved it. I would probably still be working except I was coerced into retirement by you-know-who. But I have always enjoyed electronics as a hobby. Heck I still have my 1960's Weller 100-140 watt soldering gun. And it still works great! Better than I do haha.

Rod

I use the old Weller 100-140 watt soldering gun too.  The difference between us is electronics was always a job, never a hobby for me.  I'll use my skills to get to an end result in the hobby, but like carpentry, I don't really enjoy it.  I'm glad fellows like you, John, and the others you mentioned helped you with the new stuff and by association helped me. 

Ron, looking for a positive, it's good you have plenty of time for planning. Never want to rush that. You know what they say; measure 3 times, cut once. Have you got a track plan finalized? I envy you with a 20 x 25 space to work with! Can we assume there will be a VL Bigboy pulling a long string of PFE reefers with red rock mountains in the background?

Rod

Ron, I agree with Rod.  You do have time for planning, and you have more space for a layout than I ever dreamed of having.  Good for you!!    I probably wouldn't have the means to ever make full use of your space anyway! 

@Rod Stewart  Not a big boy but 2 premier northerns pulling a long string of SF boxcars, the PFE is pulled by a SP E8 Black Widow ABA , SP Daylight E8 ABA with 10 pax cars, along with 4 F3 consists, NP, GN,  WP and P&P, 1 E7  ABA GS pax, 1 E7 AB MR gondola string, a SD50 AA string of D&RG tankers, a SD70 AA Conrail CSX Tropicana train, F9 AB BN mixed string, BNSF grain train and eventually a  IBP string coming from the packing house.

Let's see if I've got this right - the board is attached to the floor or ceiling of the caboose and wires extend outward to 4 side markers and an interior LED?  I acquired several of Roy Aydelotte's 9V 100 mA regulator boards for caboose use, but haven't had time to begin any installations yet.

@Ron_S posted:

@Rod Stewart  Not a big boy but 2 premier northerns pulling a long string of SF boxcars, the PFE is pulled by a SP E8 Black Widow ABA , SP Daylight E8 ABA with 10 pax cars, along with 4 F3 consists, NP, GN,  WP and P&P, 1 E7  ABA GS pax, 1 E7 AB MR gondola string, a SD50 AA string of D&RG tankers, a SD70 AA Conrail CSX Tropicana train, F9 AB BN mixed string, BNSF grain train and eventually a  IBP string coming from the packing house.

I'm speechless...................

@KarlDL posted:

Let's see if I've got this right - the board is attached to the floor or ceiling of the caboose and wires extend outward to 4 side markers and an interior LED?  I acquired several of Roy Aydelotte's 9V 100 mA regulator boards for caboose use, but haven't had time to begin any installations yet.

Close. Typically it would mount upside down on the ceiling near the rear of the car, with the rear 2 or 3 leds soldered directly into the board and leads bent to butt them up with the OEM bezels. If there are front markers those two leds would likely need to be extended with wires and soldered into the board. The led strip for ceiling could be direct soldered to the board connector pads. If a strip section is used in the cupola roof it would need to be pigtailed to the lower strip or board. Makes sense?

The board has no Vreg: in command it will have constant lighting level, but in conventional brightness will vary with track voltage. I don't know anything about Roy's 9V boards, so can't draw any comparison at all.

Rod

Following this conversation with interest.

Initially Rod, I believe you mentioned "plus a pot to adjust brightness".

And in the last post you mentioned, "in command it will have constant lighting level".

Can you clarify?

I like the idea of having a pot to adjust the led strip internal lighting while the markers stay fully bright.

Is this possible?

Thanks Dave

@Soo Line posted:

Following this conversation with interest.

Initially Rod, I believe you mentioned "plus a pot to adjust brightness".

And in the last post you mentioned, "in command it will have constant lighting level".

Can you clarify?

I like the idea of having a pot to adjust the led strip internal lighting while the markers stay fully bright.

Is this possible?

Thanks Dave

Good questions Dave. The pot is a set and forget kind of thing. Once you get the marker brightness where you want it with the pot, that's pretty much it. So for subsequent similar builds you can use a simple fixed resistor of a value close to the pot setting, and forego the pot. Short of disassembling the car the pot is non-accessible in normal use anyway.

Once the brightness is set per above it will always have the same intensity using command track power of 18VAC or so. If running conventional though the track power may range from 8 to 12VAC, or even higher, so the brightness will vary accordingly. Hope that makes sense.

The board currently uses a fixed resistor R4 for the strip led lighting circuit. That's how they have been ordered. That circuit is kind of parallel to the marker circuit. It would be easy enough though to stick a 3362P trim pot in place of the resistor on the board so as to make it adjustable if that's what you wanted to do. Hope that helps.

Rod

UPDATE: Got the board order and just did a test build. But there is a couple of things I don't care for about how it operates, so I have done a couple of revisions, fine tuned a couple of component values, and will put in another board order pretty quick. Another board order hits the circular file haha! Not the first time ho hum.

Just working on a couple of other designs that I will order boards for at the same time, just to minimize the shipping impact.

Rod

Thanks @Rod Stewart. please let us know when they are ready!

Mike

Rod, that’s not uncommon.  Thank you.

FURTHER UPDATE: So the new boards arrived and tested out perfectly. Just to recap this board is intended for use with track AC power supply, with no lighting module needed, and has provision for 2, 3, or 5 markers, plus a 1 or 2 section strip of leds for interior lighting as well. It has a half wave diode for rectification and a cap for flicker suppression, plus a pot to adjust marker led brightness. It is quite small so as to fit into the rear roof area of most cabeese.

Here is a 3D board view:

Note that you can trim off the near end if not using front markers. The back led positions will accommodate 1,2 or 3 markers as needed. The blue pot will fit any RM065 or 3362P trim pot. 5K is what I used for a wide range of adjustment. Just left of center towards the rear there are two cap patterns superimposed to accommodate anywhere from 100 to 407uF size caps. I used a 220 in the test board with good results. The rear corners can also be trimmed off if needed to fit the particular installation.

Here is a couple of pix: Top one is the trimmed complete test board beside the full size version. Bottom is the test board in operation at 18VAC.

I'll add design notes and gerbers shortly for those who want to order their own boards.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

I'll add design notes and gerbers shortly for those who want to order their own boards.

Rod

Schematics would be useful as well if you're doing your own boards.

Looks great, Rod!  Please refresh my memory.  I think this board works the marker lights, while another would give constant interior lighting for a caboose.  Is that correct?

Thank Rod! Looks great, glad they work. Will be looking forward to the files!

Mike

As promised here is a pdf file of design notes, which also has installation tips, and the gerbers. This is the same gerber file that my boards were ordered from. The circuit diagram is included with in the design notes.

Rod

@Mark Boyce posted:

Looks great, Rod!  Please refresh my memory.  I think this board works the marker lights, while another would give constant interior lighting for a caboose.  Is that correct?

Mark, this is intended to be a simple all in one kind of board. It fits up to 5 marker leds, as well as a short strip of 3528 style leds for interior lighting. See the pictures. If you want constant current lighting you would also need a lighting module such as the well known DIY module. But the idea was to have a small inexpensive board that would not need that complication necessarily. Make sense?

Rod

Rod, thank you.  Yes, I remember now.  That sounds good to me.  👍🏻

Rod, you know you have plenty of real estate to stick a regulator on that board and then you'd have constant intensity with adjustment with the same amount of components.  You already have a pot, the rectifier, and the filter caps.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Rod, you know you have plenty of real estate to stick a regulator on that board and then you'd have constant intensity with adjustment with the same amount of components.  You already have a pot, the rectifier, and the filter caps.

That might be the Mark II version; but for right now I'm just keeping it simple. For command operation a reg doesn't really offer much advantage, and for conventional the variation in light intensity over 8-12VAC is not too bad. Certainly no worse than a standard bulb in the car. And the cap provides pretty good flicker protection. This is all I am going to run in my cabeese.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

That might be the Mark II version; but for right now I'm just keeping it simple. For command operation a reg doesn't really offer much advantage, and for conventional the variation in light intensity over 8-12VAC is not too bad. Certainly no worse than a standard bulb in the car. And the cap provides pretty good flicker protection. This is all I am going to run in my cabeese.

Rod

Gee Rod, I was trying to suck you into another project.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Gee Rod, I was trying to suck you into another project.

Earlier I posted the gerbers so anyone who wishes to have a few of these boards made can do so. If anyone else wants a few of these just shoot me an email offline; my email is in my profile!

Rod

Some supplemental information. This table gives suggested values for R4, the load resistor for the strip led lighting part of the circuit, for those who are resistor shopping. Note these are not highly critical, and are rounded up to standard values. The brightness of the interior lighting is totally subjective. The 3.25ma column is a good average brightness IMO.

R4 Resistor Suggested Values

18VAC track power

12VDC standard led strip; 3 x 3528 WW leds per 2” section

Rod

I have put an updated version of the Design Notes in the original post about 9 post up. It includes the table of R4 values above as well as other minor updated data. Just for info.

Rod

Another chance to rib Rod S. over those blue-white LEDs.