Adding TMCC to Tender...Insulate Shell or Run Wire Up To Rail?

You could use heatsink to protect stanchions. Or use a crimp.  Either way you have esthetics to consider.  If shell is easier to isolate that is cleaner look. G

Insulating the shell and using it as an antenna is the standard way to do it. Kapton tape works well and nylon screws easily come in the correct size.

Is there any particular reason for not doing it that way in this instance?

RoyBoy posted:

Insulating the shell and using it as an antenna is the standard way to do it. Kapton tape works well and nylon screws easily come in the correct size.

Is there any particular reason for not doing it that way in this instance?

I think it is just the lure of the rails on the tender that look so inviting. On some water tenders, it looks like the rails turn down into plastic standoffs and makes me wonder if the rail goes all the way through to the inside even for the tenders without TMCC. 

I've got some 6-32 plastic screws coming. Isolating the shell is reversible as well, so that's good too.

Even if you could prevent the stanchion from melting wouldn't the wire be visible? You can get brass stanchions from Precision Scale but would then have to figure out how to insulate them from the shell which I assume is die cast. Lionel uses plastic bushings for this. Maybe just heat shrink on the stanchion shaft and enlarging the hole slightly would work.

Pete

Yes, N&W 1218 said it was ok for the wire to show...but you just gave me an idea. A little rail sticks out on the ends and I could slip a tiny heat shrink band over the wire and rail joining it. I didn't think of using heat shrink to make a connection. Might do that...thinking...black slim wire up through tiny hole just at the end of the rail and bent over 90 degrees and heat shrink. Might be a plan.

You need to crimp first if not soldering.  Otherwise it may be a suspect connection.   G

I might find a tiny copper sleeve to crimp. My first idea was to push a stiff wire up thru a tiny hole and spark weld it to the rail at right angles. Maybe I need a resistance soldering iron . Yea! A tool to buy...

The rails are typically stainless, soldering to them will be fun.   I had a similar issue with the MTH Dockside switcher when I put TMCC into it.  I ended up replacing the stainless handrails with nickel wire and insulating them where they went into the boiler.  I also had to replace the metal stanchions with plastic ones to totally insulate the handrail.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The rails are typically stainless, soldering to them will be fun.   I had a similar issue with the MTH Dockside switcher when I put TMCC into it.  I ended up replacing the stainless handrails with nickel wire and insulating them where they went into the boiler.  I also had to replace the metal stanchions with plastic ones to totally insulate the handrail.

Good mod! I did a dockside and ran a black wirewrap wire out to the bell . That was taking the easy way out, eh?

I never thought of that, but I have #30 wirewrap wire, it would have worked perfectly for the bell line, and probably been a lot easier.

That was it, #30. I loved wirewrap and still have a stock of various teflon covered #30 pre-stripped wire. I did worry about the contact of the wrap though whenever I had an intermittant issue in an instrument. I've soldered a few wraps, but never was able to blame anything on the wrap. As I understood it, the wire actually sort of welds into the sharp corners of the pins. I've also wrapped discrete leaded parts on perfboard...that I did solder and cut off the excess.

I worked for IBM in the 1960's, most of the back panels of the early IBM-360 controllers were wirewrapped, and the mainframes as well.  Periodically, there would be an engineering change that required a massive update of a host of those wires.  Taking a bunch off and then replacing them to accomplish the change. 

The ugly part was that I was the guy that came in after the EC team and got the machine running again, that was sometimes a real treat for a large EC change.

CJACK,

  I too have some 3rd Rail/MTH/Kline I am converting over to TMCC, and they have die cast tenders.   I have done a couple, put ran out of #6-32 nylon screws.  Please inform of where you have ordered the new #6-32 nylon/plastic screws, as I have had not enough fortune in locating a supplier for more. Most I come across are metric and for drones/RC usage.  Any information is most appreciated.

Thank you,

Jesse   TCA

Jesse, McMaster Carr has all kind of nylon screws. Fast shipping too.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#nylo...hine-screws/=15faksd

Just a reminder, no soldering needed if you used a brass stanchion. If you wanted to use solder replace the stainless rail with music wire. It will solder with an active flux. Then paint it black. They were never polished anyway, were they.

Pete

Micro Fasteners has nylon screws in both metric and SAE sizes, it's where I get mine.  I get the long ones and just trim to whatever length I need.  NBCD0632 - 6-32 x 2 - Combo Drive Binder Head Screws

texastrain posted:

CJACK,

  I too have some 3rd Rail/MTH/Kline I am converting over to TMCC, and they have die cast tenders.   I have done a couple, put ran out of #6-32 nylon screws.  Please inform of where you have ordered the new #6-32 nylon/plastic screws, as I have had not enough fortune in locating a supplier for more. Most I come across are metric and for drones/RC usage.  Any information is most appreciated.

Thank you,

Jesse   TCA

I found some here...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322224...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Spendy little things there Chuck!

Yes they seem to be...but the shipping is included. So if you add 4 bucks or so (I tried it) it comes out closer. But thanks for the source. I will use it. I like it.

I think I have decided to drill a #30+ hole and run a wirewrap wire, black, up to a rail and try it. I think I will wrap the wire around the end of the rail and secure it with heat shrink which I have in tiny diameters. Let y'all know if it works well. I could also do the other rail, but just one for now.

One thing about using the whole shell, you are very unlikely to have signal issues with that nice big antenna.

Digi Key has them too.  G

Gentlemen,    Thanks to all for the input on #6-32 screws.  I have searched several sites and had no luck finding the necessary #6-32 I need.  The information and assist found on this site is, as Carl Sagan would say... "simply amazing"..

Jesse    TCA

CJack,

I have a great deal of solder experience. I do not think you have to melt the plastic stanchions. You need a hot iron and tinning.

Pick a spot on the railing , put small metal clamps on either side of where you are going to solder. Tin the spot and put just a dab of solder, very little. Tin and  put a small dab of solder on the end of the antenna and join the two with just a touch of the iron.

I would suggest changing the tender rail to an appropriate piece of brass tube or round bar. Then paint it or stain with neo lube.

It is not hard.

However, using kapton tape and soldering or taping the antenna to the shell does make a great antenna.

Good luck,

Ron H

Soldering to the stainless rails isn't so simple Ron.

That would be two votes for replacing the rail with one made of other material if soldering.

Pete

Actually Pete, it's easier to float the tender shell and use that as the antenna.  I typically get that done in about ten minutes, it's a simple process.  If you really want to use the handrails, yes, I suggest an alternate material.

I floated the shell using nylon 6-32 screws and clear gorilla tape. The most time was spent slicing the tape the long way to keep it all nice and neat looking inside.

I don't spend a lot of time making it look really neat inside, I just want to make sure the tape doesn't show outside and actually does insulate the tender shell.