Hi group! Still learning my way with Lionel and have acquired a few Legacy locos and before I purchase the Lionel Command control set up, is there another brand of system that I should consider that would work just as well or better?
Part B: I have a CW80 transformer. Can I use that as power supply to the track? Assume you power the rails with a constant 18v AC?
Thanks for the assist.
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The Legacy system is the way to go and it's an easy 1 wire connection to the track.
The CW80 will work as long as your layout is not too large and your not operating more than a couple of locos at a time. Lighted passenger cars will also tax it even further.
It's also a good idea to use a larger wire like 16 guage when connecting your transformer to the track.
For a larger layout , or if and when it grows. The Lionel 180w powerhouse is the way to go.
The only other common O gauge command system is MTH's DCS. I know they can control each other's engines I am not sure if you get all of the features when you crossover. There are experts here that can give you the correct answer. In my opinion, MTH steam engines cannot hold a candle to their Legacy counterparts as far as features, sound and slow crawl speeds. I am sure there are MTH fans that will disagree, but like I said, in my opinion.
My advice is to control your command engines with their respective command systems.
Just my $.02.
Mike
The Legacy 990 system is the only way to enjoy all of the features of your Legacy engines. The other alternatives control only a subset of the features and IMHO, money spent n the wrong direction.
If your engines are Bluetooth-enabled, try out the (free) Lionel App on your phone or iPad. You'll get speed, direction, couplers, and some of the sound controls through the app.
Legacy locos are best controlled by the Legacy system, the older TMCC system, or, in some cases, with the newest locos, you can also use the Lionel app on a smart device. The company formerly known as MTH (they are closing in a few months) makes a system called DCS that can be used to control Legacy locos in command mode, but in order to do that, you need the Legacy system command base as well as the DCS system. Makes no sense unless you also have some PS2/PS3 MTH locos that require DCS for command control. Of course, you can get fewer features and no independent control of Legacy locos by operating them in conventional mode without the Legacy system.
As others have said, the Legacy 990 system is the best system to use. CW80 will work, but you will probably will want to upgrade before too long.
A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Lionel ZW-L for my layout. I have a couple of Legacy locomotives and I run postwar locomotives as well. The ZW-L isn’t inexpensive but in this case you do get what you pay for. It is an excellent investment and I am very happy with mine.
Legacy is great--no argument there. But it ain't cheap. Legacy locos command premium bucks versus DCS PS-3 locos. Spending on Legacy locos and then running a CW-80 transformer is a confusing mix--rich at the running end and poor at the control end.
OTOH, with the future of MTH DCS up in the air due to MTH's closing soon, maybe Legacy is the only sure bet in town.
Don Merz
@Don Merz 070317 posted:Legacy is great--no argument there. But it ain't cheap. Legacy locos command premium bucks versus DCS PS-3 locos. Spending on Legacy locos and then running a CW-80 transformer is a confusing mix--rich at the running end and poor at the control end.
Don Merz
PS3 locos may not be as much as Legacy locos but they sure aren't free. In fact, they've gone up in value MTH's future in limbo.
It makes even less sense to buy DCS system to run Legacy locos when you still need Legacy base to do so.
With all due respect to Mike Wolf, his products are great, but this has to be one of the best instances of false marketing in history.
The DCS merely mimics the commands of the Legacy handheld sending commands through the Legacy base and requires more keystrokes and eyes to do so.
By clever design of the tactile feel of the controls. Once the locomotive information is loaded into the Legacy system. All of the "meat and potatoes" train functions can be accessed by feel as you watch your trains react.
There is no other command system in any scale that has that capability. For all the excitement over bluetooth and 'devices". This requires even more time looking at a screen than your trains.
Lastly, the OP wants to start out using the CW he has, certainly he can upgrade his transformer in the future like many of us probably have. Theres been no mention of layout size.
Thank you for all the good input! To answer a few of the question in one place:
My layout is 6x10 and currently supports 2 Lionel Chief engines running with some attention as the lines are not fully independent. I run 2 Lion Chief wall plugs and still have plenty of power even with 7 switches. (soon to be direct powered)
The CW80 does fine for the older Lionel and K-lines engines (those running 1 at a time) will be adding a couple drops though.
As a newcomer I may have used "Legacy" to generally but convinced I am headed to the Command control setup. I have an Sd70 that I just got which is K-line by Lionel and has a bunch of functions and a set of FA's that are TMCC? So safe to say based on the opinions here jump of the the CAB1 and straight to the Command control.
Thanks again!
@RickO posted:PS3 locos may not be as much as Legacy locos but they sure aren't free. In fact, they've gone up in value MTH's future in limbo.
It makes even less sense to buy DCS system to run Legacy locos when you still need Legacy base to do so.
With all due respect to Mike Wolf, his products are great, but this has to be one of the best instances of false marketing in history.
It is slightly misleading, but the advantage is doing it all from one remote... AND I’ve found that running Legacy locos with classic TMCC is perfectly enjoyable. Adding an older TMCC Command Base to an existing DCS setup is an affordable way to run your TMCC and Legacy locos along side the DCS ones. You can pick up used command bases for a song now-a-days.
The DCS merely mimics the commands of the Legacy handheld sending commands through the Legacy base and requires more keystrokes and eyes to do so.
By clever design of the tactile feel of the controls. Once the locomotive information is loaded into the Legacy system. All of the "meat and potatoes" train functions can be accessed by feel as you watch your trains react.
Or watch them not react. I’ve had far too many issues with TMCC and Legacy missing throttle commands and wreaking havoc, when running lash-ups, bucking one another like a mustang trying to unsaddle an overweight cowboy. For speed matching when running MU consists DCS is far superior, IMHO.
@rplst8 posted:I’ve had far too many issues with TMCC and Legacy missing throttle commands and wreaking havoc, when running lash-ups, bucking one another like a mustang trying to unsaddle an overweight cowboy. For speed matching when running MU consists DCS is far superior, IMHO.
Apples and oranges. MU with TMCC and Legacy is a crap shoot. However, I've MU'ed many different Legacy locomotives with excellent results and no speed matching issues.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Apples and oranges. MU with TMCC and Legacy is a crap shoot. However, I've MU'ed many different Legacy locomotives with excellent results and no speed matching issues.
Legacy is much better than TMCC I agree. However, because of the lack of 2-way comms, one loco can still receive a command while the other misses it. Having 200 speed steps helps since the difference between two steps is much less noticeable.
For the OP I fully recommend LEGACY with the Cab-2. If your not ready for that expense the Cab-1L is also a good option dumbed down some but when you go full legacy the CAB-1L remote will still talk to the Legacy base.
As far as MU’s I have no experience with DCS in this aspect but with Legacy and TMCC I highly recommend keeping a close eye on coupler tension. I have a early legacy FEF-3 that doesn’t like to play nice with a lot of the other Legacy generations. It’s done fine with a RS6/RCDR LM big boy. Also no problems with the VL or Legacy Big Boy with the RCMC. But the newer Challenger with the RCMC I have to get just the right speed step to play nice. And the newest E-9’s do NOT play nice with the FEF. But worked just fine with the new RCMC VL Challenger.
The excuse Lionel gives for no Legacy upgrade boards is speed matching but from what I can tell over the 14 years of Legacy locomotives they aren’t all the same. They are now on there 3rd Generation Motor driver / Legacy board set up so I’d expect some variations
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