American Flyer Y3: Two Right Feet

Wow, sharp eyes!  This may be a long shot, bu maybe you can remove that driver and axle and flip it so that the left wheel is on the right and right on the left.  If the gears will allow it, that is and if the crank is wrong on the other side too.  The way I see it, that would be the best solution,  otherwise, try to UNsee it as well as you can. 

@poniaj posted:

Wow, sharp eyes!  This may be a long shot, bu maybe you can remove that driver and axle and flip it so that the left wheel is on the right and right on the left.  If the gears will allow it, that is and if the crank is wrong on the other side too.  The way I see it, that would be the best solution,  otherwise, try to UNsee it as well as you can. 

Nope, the gear is offset, plus that wouldn't solve the issue.   The right and left driver castings have the key-way in different positions anyway.

The only solution I can see would be to order a front #3 driver, pull off the wheel and install it on the rear #3, assuming I could get it quartered properly.  Way too much work for what the issue is.  I might investigate the key-way at a later date, but for now I'll live with it.

Rusty

Now I have to pull mine out and look!

My Santa Fe Y3 is the same. I plan to ignore it. I will look at the PRR Y3 when I run it but likely that will be the same as well.

What’s the possibility of removing the crank pin from the wheel and repositioning it correctly?

I need to go and look at mine now and see if I have the same issue.

Update: just ran mine as it was already on the track. It is a N&W model and it looks OK.

Look at the curved link on the valve gear hanger.  They must have installed two right side assemblies on that set of drivers.

@Ukaflyer posted:

What’s the possibility of removing the crank pin from the wheel and repositioning it correctly?

Tried that.  It only fits one way.  I suppose the key on the crank could be ground off and rely on the screw to hold it into position.   A project for another day (like I really need one...) I got more loco's to exercise.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Tried that.  It only fits one way.  I suppose the key on the crank could be ground off and rely on the screw to hold it into position.   A project for another day (like I really need one...) I got more loco's to exercise.

Rusty

Any chance of changing the profile of the crank pin where it goes into the wheel to make it fit?  

@Ukaflyer posted:

Any chance of changing the profile of the crank pin where it goes into the wheel to make it fit?  

Unfortunately, no.  There are two keys 180 degrees apart on the eccentric crank.  These would have to be reconstructed in the correct orientation.

I see two options: Remove the keys entirely and rely on the crankpin screw to hold it in position.  The other option would be to drill two holes in the driver and narrow the keys to fit the holes.

More work than I want to go into at this point.

Rusty

OK Rusty, now you have spread the disease and I can't unsee it either. Mine is the same.

However, I checked my Challenger and it is correct.

@Chuck K posted:

OK Rusty, now you have spread the disease and I can't unsee it either. Mine is the same.

However, I checked my Challenger and it is correct.

Sorry!   It only took me almost a decade to notice it!

I did find a YouTuber whose Y3 rear engine is correct:

So, the issue isn't on all of the models.  But, now that I see that mine isn't a one-off, my guess is the assembler was issued a bin of the wrong part at one time (or they got mixed up from the vendor.  I worked in a manufacturing plant for 16 years, such things do happen.)  Most likely it would a 50/50 shot a replacement would also be incorrect.

It's a chink in the armor of what is probably Lionel's best Flyer locomotive.

Rusty

Checked my N&W Y3 and it looks correct. Probably wasn't made on a Friday.

Rich

@Rusty Traque posted:

Nope, the gear is offset, plus that wouldn't solve the issue.   The right and left driver castings have the key-way in different positions anyway.

The only solution I can see would be to order a front #3 driver, pull off the wheel and install it on the rear #3, assuming I could get it quartered properly.  Way too much work for what the issue is.  I might investigate the key-way at a later date, but for now I'll live with it.

Rusty

Why not order the front #3 wheel assembly anyway and just pull the crank pin out and swap it over?

@Ukaflyer posted:

Why not order the front #3 wheel assembly anyway and just pull the crank pin out and swap it over?

The front #3 doesn't have the gear.  The wheel would have to be pulled off and placed on the rear #3 axle, plus more importantly be quartered properly.

More work than I care to go into right now.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

The front #3 doesn't have the gear.  The wheel would have to be pulled off and placed on the rear #3 axle, plus more importantly be quartered properly.

More work than I care to go into right now.

Rusty

Hi Rusty,

i’m a bit confused now. Is the problem part the eccentric crank that connects to the bit on the wheel or is it the bit that is attached to the wheel?

If it is the bit that is attached to the wheel only then that is what I was thinking about by getting the front wheel assembly which is known to be good and just pull the crank pin from the wheel which is attached to the engine still and then put on the front spare crank pin, that way you are not having to mess with too much stripping down and any quartering.

@Ukaflyer posted:

Hi Rusty,

i’m a bit confused now. Is the problem part the eccentric crank that connects to the bit on the wheel or is it the bit that is attached to the wheel?

If it is the bit that is attached to the wheel only then that is what I was thinking about by getting the front wheel assembly which is known to be good and just pull the crank pin from the wheel which is attached to the engine still and then put on the front spare crank pin, that way you are not having to mess with too much stripping down and any quartering.

The issue is with the driver.  There are slots on the #3 drivers to accept the keys on the crankpin.  The slots are in different locations on the right side driver vs. the left side driver.

This drawing shows the current issue:

The drawing shows the correct locations for each:

It is the slot on the drive wheel that determines the angle of the crankpin.  It why the drive wheel itself would have to be replaced with a 'Left side" and of course, quartered properly.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

The issue is with the driver.  There are slots on the #3 drivers to accept the keys on the crankpin.  The slots are in different locations on the right side driver vs. the left side driver.

This drawing shows the current issue:

The drawing shows the correct locations for each:

It is the slot on the drive wheel that determines the angle of the crankpin.  It why the drive wheel itself would have to be replaced with a 'Left side" and of course, quartered properly.

Rusty

Got it now, I can see the problem. There was me thinking that a simple solution could be found.

Take your glasses off...?

Sorry, just facetious. Could you disassemble and reverse the eccentric? Or grind a new keyway set 90° offset to the current ones?

@SteamWolf posted:

Take your glasses off...?

Sorry, just facetious. Could you disassemble and reverse the eccentric? Or grind a new keyway set 90° offset to the current ones?

Nope.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

I see two options: Remove the keys entirely and rely on the crankpin screw to hold it in position.  The other option would be to drill two holes in the driver and narrow the keys to fit the holes.

UGH!  I sure would be reluctant to remove the keying on that crankpin!  Bad things happen if it gets in the wrong orientation.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

UGH!  I sure would be reluctant to remove the keying on that crankpin!  Bad things happen if it gets in the wrong orientation.

A big dollop of super glue would help.

@Ukaflyer posted:

A big dollop of super glue would help.

Not really, I'd sure not do that, just makes it harder to work on when you inevitably have to fix it properly.  Also, CA adhesive does not have high sheer strength, and isn't all that great for such an application.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not really, I'd sure not do that, just makes it harder to work on when you inevitably have to fix it properly.  Also, CA adhesive does not have high sheer strength, and isn't all that great for such an application.

It was meant to be a numerous reply, hence the use of the word dollop.

We have now worked out the only cure is a complete new correct wheel for starters.

I’d slot the existing driver where it needs to be,….is the indexer integral to the driver?..or is it a separate pressed in part?….I’m not familiar with how modern Flyers are built,…..MTH O Premier has a separate indexer/ crank pin arrangement….they can be pushed out, re-aligned and re-installed …..but it’s rarely a problem, as they have 4 keys, giving quite a few possibilities…….

Pat

For what its worth, I would look at getting my Dremel out and grind a new key slot cavity in the correct location on the wheel using a small diamond grinding bit.

I'll have to look at mine also..

Hum.......................does your engine run smoothly......................does it crawl................do you enjoy watching it  run.......................then leave it alone..................do not open a pandorra box...........if you want to complain about something then try gas prices and food prices.

Jackie

To add to the data base, my PRR Y3 crank and linkage configuration conforms to Rusty's diagram and appears to be correct.

Bob

@William Jack posted:

Hum.......................does your engine run smoothly......................does it crawl................do you enjoy watching it  run.......................then leave it alone..................do not open a pandorra box...........if you want to complain about something then try gas prices and food prices.

Jackie

Frankly, the issue with the left rear engine has lessened my enjoyment of the locomotive, (It's one of those things that happen when one is familiar with working on prototype steam locomotives) just not to the point where I have to try to correct it immediately.

And don't ask about groceries or gas...

Rusty

...and that's not how "Pandora" is spelled... 😁

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

...and that's not how "Pandora" is spelled... 😁

Mark in Oregon

A great free music streaming service, by the way...

Rusty

Stummer!..........That is called a typing error.......or typo for short.........I am sure you never made one,,,,Right,,,,,,,,,,,

Regards

Jackie

... whatever Jack... have a nice day. 😁

So Rusty: what are you going to do about your "two right feet"?

Mark in Oregon

I went a checked both of my Y's   and both are as in Rusty's drawings ....working correctly...no problems........hauling there coal load to Lambert's point...................