American Lightweight Car Co

The guy that bought the company used to post on the Atlas forum, but I can't recall his handle or name.

The latest OST mag indicated that his attempt at resurrecting the line didn't materialize.

Found him!

It was Ken Towler (VGN64) I believe. He's located in Lynchburg VA.

quote:

.... his attempt at resurrecting the line didn't materialize.

Looks like another business opportunity for some enterprising entrepreneur,

IIRC, he had difficulty getting someone to do the urethane details casting. I had suggested he do that simple aspect himself. Apparently it was a bad idea, to him.

Ed Reutling

Anyone have a kit to sell or trade for ,prefer a combine . Bernie

I have two American Lightweight kits for sale, they are both streamliners.

1) 4 comp, 4 DBR, 2 DR. It may have a suitable window layout that lends itself to bashing into a combine, since these kits are styrene. You can check Pullman-Standard layouts online.

2) PRR Diner (single unit).

P&D hobby shop still had some on their shelves the last time I was in there. Not sure if any were combines though.

quote:

Originally posted by reutling:
IIRC, he had difficulty getting someone to do the urethane details casting. I had suggested he do that simple aspect himself. Apparently it was a bad idea, to him.

Ed Reutling

Strange. Seems he could sell the kits minus the details and leave that issue up to the modeler. I figure if you're going through the trouble of building your own passenger cars you'd be willing to obtain your own detail parts, if necessary.

Among some of the difficulties I understand, the new owner of the American Lightweight car kit line has had problems getting the molded styrene roofs made. The number required for having even a short run of them made is huge, compared to the market for these kits. There were also molded styrene doors and car ends, as well as curved skirting and milled corrgated strips for that type of siding if need be.

Next somes the cast resin detail parts under the car - water tank, battery boxes and air conditioning units. These were excellent and looked like they were done under pressure or by some commercial process. These parts were in the original kit line when it was first put out by Ralph Brown, wno earlier started teh American Standard line of heavy-weight passenger car kits. The brake valve, steam traps and air reservoir ends were metal castings, former Walthers parts.

American Standard/Lightwieght also made streamline trucks in Delrin for their cars. They were fitted tegether which a snap-in bolster like Weaver freight trucks of that period had.

It's debatable as to how salable a kit might be if it lacks molded and cast detail orther needed parts. First the molded styrene roof is vital. Not so easy to make on one's own. Next are the molded doors with their details as well as the car ends.

As for underbody details, Keil Line sells nearly all the parts Walthers made for their last run of Hiawatha kits. I used several of the Hiawatha / Kiel Line parts to beef up the American Lighweights I've built. The streamline bolster/draft gear casting in particular is well made, fits perfectly and adds just the right amount of heft and strength to the car and its fairly thin styrene floor.

Then come the trucks. The American Standard/Lightweight streamline trucks while made of Delrin, are well detailed, strong and roll quite well. They can even support a heavy Mac Shops 16 duplex roomette/4 double bedroom car, which demolioshed a beautiful set of Keil Line built-up streamline trucks cast in soft metal.

Finally comes the interior parts. A number of these made by American Standard/ Lightweight were quite unique. Like the angled seating for certain Pullman-built streamlined dining cars.

It's debatable as to how salable a kit might be, lacking detail parts and molded parts needed for it. One buys a kit with the expectation of having a reasonably complete model with a certain level of detail when done. If one needs to shop around for a pile of parts to finish it, they may as well just buy some sheets of styrene and cut out their own sides and floors. Like all else in life the devil is in the details when producing car kits.

Making a roof? Well one could experiment with heat-forming sheet styrene to create a streamline car roof to fit, or go back to the 1950s and make one out of suigar pine, planed and shaped to fit.

So this kit line lanquishes. The American Standard heavy-weight line might have similar issues, but the current owner of its tooliong has done nothing with it at all.

Ed Bommer

Thanks for the clarification, Ed. Seems there are more issues than just the detail parts.

Maybe part of the problem is that K-Line, and now GG Depot, have produced beautiful streamliners in metal, mostly, for a hundred bucks. Think a plastic kit producer can compete with that?

I had a pair of those plastic trucks around here - I think I gave them away. Aside from being plastic (ugh) I do not think they looked particularly realistic.

Bernie
I have to ask why specifcally you're zero-ing in on a light-weight Coach Combine. Despite their popularity in the Toy and HO passenger set world they were in reality one of the more obscure LW carbodies, indeed most roads passed on the configuration entirely. More so many of these were actually Dorm-Baggage or Lounge-Bagggage etc. Just curious, what road are you modeling and specifically what is the prototype car you're looking to model?

Re: american lightweight kits
I have several of the smooth side pullmans that need the fluting for the sides.
Any one have any? All help in locating some will be greatly appreciated. Most ACL cars had fluted sides
Leon

Yeah Leon, me too, where's the after market fluting? seriously if I had all the fluted panels I needed to finish off all my PS and ACF, for BC-K, Kasiner, and ALW kits in the versions I wanted I'd be a happy guy! They show up so rarely on E-Bay, though I know if you make the National or Chicago shows you can get them pretty cheap.

Leon:

Are the car sides styrene? If so, could Evergreen half-round styrene strips work to simulate the fluting?

The ALW kits are NYC smooth side styrene kits that need the wide and the narrow fluting that was provided with corrugated style kit. I haven't tried the evergreen half round but I'll give it try when I get some. Thanks for the suggestion and for sharing my grief in not being able to finish these kits.
Leon

quote:

Originally posted by AGHRMatt:

quote:

Originally posted by reutling:
IIRC, he had difficulty getting someone to do the urethane details casting. I had suggested he do that simple aspect himself. Apparently it was a bad idea, to him.

Ed Reutling

Strange. Seems he could sell the kits minus the details and leave that issue up to the modeler. I figure if you're going through the trouble of building your own passenger cars you'd be willing to obtain your own detail parts, if necessary.

Considering some of the CAD programs available these days and the advent of 3D printers, I am guessing it might become pretty easy to produce things of this ilk in the not too distant future.

Happy Holidays,
Simon

Hello all, actually I need a dormitory baggage car kit , also if anyone has just an extra roof they could part with would be greatly appreciated .It appears to be a resin cast variety.

Happy Holidays to all , Bernie

quote:

Originally posted by Purplepapa:
Re: american lightweight kits
I have several of the smooth side pullmans that need the fluting for the sides.
Leon

Investigate Evergreen Scale Models - Passenger Car Siding and their Corrugated Metal Siding

Matt

I have a pair of roof plastic extrsions contact me odd line as they are no longzer in my plans.
Ed Rappe

Hi Ed , thanks alot ,I sent you an email , Bernie

The kits had a variety of owners over time and names. Ralph Brown and so on.

From what I understand most of the detail parts were Grandt Line and of course the resin cast parts produced in house. Clear plastic tubes and white metal parts, even some wood! And in time castings were developed for the heavyweight roof ends and resin cast sides make these models really nice when built professionaly.

All in all an excellent line of kits in an era when an O Scaler had no other options. I have many of these cars un-built and built and have built them for customers when I still had time to build.

The AD above was published in the 50th Anniversary Issue of Model Railroader in 1984 when the kits were marketed by American Standard Car Company. Some of the company names I can muster up were Pullman Car Company Kits, American Lightweight Car Company, etc, etc.. For a time Ralph Brown offered the kits as sets through the line of "Great Trains" in O and 1:32.

Ralph Brown ran AD's in Classic Trains in the 1990's while offering custom built 1:32 cars and sets.

Just my two and half cents worth..

Happy Holidays Fellas!

Ralph's most recent AD I could find published in 2001. Has he passed away guys?

I visited with him once or twice. What and amazing builder. A dear friend in the mid-west had him build a 1:32 scale Chicago Great Western 10 car set for a museum in Wisconsin about 12 years ago.

Great Stuff Erik! A testimony to the idea that if you see something you like, you better buy it, because you never know when you will get another opportunity! Sooner or later it all goes away!

Simon

Excellent advertisement Erik, thank you for posting, though I saw a lot of their Heavyweight adverts I had never seen these color pages for the Lightweight Line. GREAT!

All this brings up questions for me.

Most of these parts/kits were made at a time when the prototype was readily available/accessible. Someone could take photos, measurements, or even obtain the necessary drawings to produce a piece in o scale.

These days there's very few prototypical items that are accessible for someone to do the same thing. Most folks would have to travel long distances to take photos or measurements, and that's if the item is even available. I've got a topic going on a Seaboard Vanderbilt tender, how many of those are store around the country (I expect zero).

So how does someone go about getting the data to build a single piece, let alone a master so that multiple pieces can be made?

Do you copy someone's 50 year old work (that may or may not be accurate), do you go around begging for photos, drawings, etc (I hate to admit it but that's what I'm having to do with this Vandy tender), or is all of this lost for future projects?

As far as the Vanderbilt tender goes, I'm almost positive I'll have to fake the underframe, all photos I've seen so far only show the topside and outer surfaces.

Wouldn't be great if this kind of data was donated to the NMRA for future modelers?

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
All this brings up questions for me.

Most of these parts/kits were made at a time when the prototype was readily available/accessible. Someone could take photos, measurements, or even obtain the necessary drawings to produce a piece in o scale.

These days there's very few prototypical items that are accessible for someone to do the same thing. Most folks would have to travel long distances to take photos or measurements, and that's if the item is even available. I've got a topic going on a Seaboard Vanderbilt tender, how many of those are store around the country (I expect zero).

So how does someone go about getting the data to build a single piece, let alone a master so that multiple pieces can be made?

Do you copy someone's 50 year old work (that may or may not be accurate), do you go around begging for photos, drawings, etc (I hate to admit it but that's what I'm having to do with this Vandy tender), or is all of this lost for future projects?

As far as the Vanderbilt tender goes, I'm almost positive I'll have to fake the underframe, all photos I've seen so far only show the topside and outer surfaces.

Wouldn't be great if this kind of data was donated to the NMRA for future modelers?

Most of these parts/kits were made at a time when the prototype was readily available/accessible. Someone could take photos, measurements, or even obtain the necessary drawings to produce a piece in o scale.

The kits we are blogging about in this thread came along in the late, late 1970's more like 1979 into the late 1990's long after these "Great Trains" were replaced by Amtrak Amfleet and Superliner gear. Unless a guy went to a museum or found some Heritage cars on the Amtrak's 1980's Broadway Limited technically that was into the 1990's your statement that a guy could run out and measure is incorrect just as the same today. These were post Golden Era kits bro... The AD states: "The Great Trains Are Rolling Again? review: Ad is from 1984, not 1954!


Do you copy someone's 50 year old work (that may or may not be accurate), do you go around begging for photos, drawings, etc (I hate to admit it but that's what I'm having to do with this Vandy tender), or is all of this lost for future projects?

Begging is a little bit of a long shot there.. I personally do a lot of research for brass importers of models dating back long before I was born into the 1940's. To date I have not begged anyone for material. Books, slides, eBay slides, historical societies, known experts, and so on are more than adequate for most research. Color samples are a challenge as we have discussed before in this blog; good drift cards and color chips are always a challenge especially with paint fade, color film dye changes and bleed. You might consider contacting the historical societies and or libraries for material on the Vandy Tender you are seeking. I doubt you need to beg some guy at a toy train show for his dads collection of contact prints. G.O.D.'s and erection drawings may be difficult to locate but these items are generally available to a modeler free of charge or at a photocopy fee from a historical society. Books also may have published your needed data; have you probed the books yet about the tenders? I am sure a score of good accurate books and or magazine articles have been published about your tender, a little research I am sure will turn up the needed information.

As far as the Vanderbilt tender goes, I'm almost positive I'll have to fake the underframe, all photos I've seen so far only show the topside and outer surfaces.

Keep looking, try the state historical society where the prototype was built. Look into the Locomotive Builder Encyclopedias, contact the railroad historical society, ask for some names of known collectors of G.O.D. materials. I doubt there is not a record of this tenders frame. Look at brass imports, perhaps an importer like Overland or PFM already did the tender accurately based on found drawings.

I am off my soap box now too; your comments are a man frustrated but giving up is not an option. Be resourceful, pounding the pavement at gypsy train shows is a crap-shoot. Most of these guys don't know there way out of a paper bag anyway. Get in touch with the historical societies, museums like the Colorado Railroad Museum or Illinois State Railway Museum both of these organizations have excellent libraries, and look into the state historical societies for the manufacturer and see where that leads you. It is a maze but if its worth doing its worth doing right.

quote:

Begging is a little bit of a long shot there

Erik,

I hear ya, it's just that I keep on asking and I'm sure some folks get tired of responding.

I may be a bit premature on the "sky is falling" philosophy, as I just started looking into my Vanderbilt tender project.

I saw some photos of an ALCC car and I have to say I wish those separate door castings were available, I think I could use them to replace the ones I made for my OK Engines cars:

This is just an impression . . .

Back in the olden days, folks were fairly happy with trains that sort of looked credible. Check out, for instance, any Lobaugh locomotive and you will find that underneath it looked like all the rest of its brothers. One step further, check out Max Gray, and you will find almost no underbody detail on the tenders, and for sure the locomotives when turned upside down all looked the same.

If you want incredible underframe detail, that did not come along until recently, with Key, PSC, Overland, and Kohs. And we have no guarantee that they actually used photos and other reliable documents. Actually, in one case the drawings turned out wrong, and photos overrode the drawings.

For me, it is enjoyable to get most of it close, and so all of my Vanderbilt tenders have a single bar brass underframe or a double rail, with nothing more than a brake cylinder and a couple of levers.

Passenger cars? Make them long and shiny with some lights inside, and give me trucks that look better than those currently available with the OK cars, and I will be happy. No - I have maybe seven complete trains of passenger cars, and I am more than happy.

Bob,

I'd love to get every detail on the Vanderbilt tender right, but down deep I know I have a tall hill to climb. I expect I'll be making many compromises.

I really like the OK engines aluminum shells (and window glazing). I have pairs of GDD trucks under my 2 cars, they're not 100% correct, but nicer than what came with them. My ends are flat slabs of acrylic plastic, no detail except for the PSC diaphragms and the side doors are scribed styrene. I also made new floors (1/4" acrylic plastic) and interiors. No lights yet, but the way I built them all I have to do is remove 2 screws and slide the floor/interior out of the shell. I want to replace the ends and doors at some point with more detail pieces.

OK was suppose to offer Pullman fluted cars the end of this year, but I don't know if anything's been announced or if te project is still a go.

Beautiful looking cars Bob, thanks for posting. I have have been working off of Goolby's fine book on SAL psgr service and I noticed those "Vandy" tenders; flat on the top, most distinctive, and apparently further modified in their service lives. I'm curious if the Prince book provides any relief?

Wow Ken, interesting and compelling, hope this works out for everyone and your effort comes to fruition, kudos for sticking with this and for the update. Having watched molds being created from sylastic gel and then the castings made from the resin mixes I can understand the effort involved, though that was twenty years ago and I can't imagine the method/process has improved much since.
The resin castings were indeed one of the nicest aspects of the original line, though I liked using Gloorcraft white metal sets on ALW's for the added weight, and the ALW castings on older, heavier models, both brass and kits for the opposite effect. I hope some of the more focused fine scale builders here can help you out with the issue, I think quite a few of us here would love the opportunity to be able to buy these again, the originals sure don't show up often unless you can attend the right show.

quote:

Originally posted by atlpete:
Beautiful looking cars Bob, thanks for posting. I have have been working off of Goolby's fine book on SAL psgr service and I noticed those "Vandy" tenders; flat on the top, most distinctive, and apparently further modified in their service lives. I'm curious if the Prince book provides any relief?

Thanks Pete!

I didn't find anything useful in Prince's book


Ken,
It's good to hear you're still at least thinking about these cars

I also sent you an email.

ADDED:

Ken, maybe you and Ted Brebeck, owner of OK Engines, might work something out. His passenger cars could benefit from a few castings as well. Just a thought I'd really like to see both of you succeed

Ken,

Three companies come to mind that advertise parts manufacturing capabilities:

Southern Car and Foundry - http://www.southerncarandfoundry.com/

St Charles Model Works - http://www.scmodelworks.com/

Altoona Model Works - http://www.altoonamodelworks.net/

ChipR

Welcome Ken

I enjoy building your kits because there are so many options. Good to know you are on the Forum, and hopefully you will post updates on your progress with the kit availability.

Leon

Thanks for all the responses. FYI: Des Plains Hobbies bought the heavyweight trucks that Ralph Brown had. I have the lightweight trucks.

Does anyone have the link for the streamlined Budd cars shown in the picture earlier in this discussion. I found them once and would like to order some so I can see what they are like. They look very interesting.

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,
If it's the OK engines cars I have here ya go:

OK ENGINES

Ted Brebeck is the owner.

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Delbridge:
Ken,
If it's the OK engines cars I have here ya go:

OK ENGINES

Ted Brebeck is the owner.

Second recomendation for OK ENGINES.

Very pleased and if you have problem Ted will work with you. A true gentleman.

I personally have purchased 12 cars for Silver Meteor and he has cut windows and doors for 10 scale Metroliners, for which I supplied the shells.

Great place.

mikeg

Does anyone make a scale Amfleet car? I see the MTH ones and don't know if they are scale. We have a regional train that leaves Lynchburg, VA on the way to Washington DC with 8 cars. The ridership is 50% above projections. I'd love to put one of these together and mix it with my Heritage series cars.