OK, what burr got under Amtrak saddle? Insurance suddenly went way north of reasonableness? Insurer suddenly says too unsafe to have excursions with all those non-railroaders who might get hurt around that choo-choo train? New Amtrak management (or some flunky) wants to make a statement? Someone in White House passed down "the word"? 
I feel for the private varnish and for groups that invested hard earned dollars in a now cold "hunk of steel useless" engine. 
It’s the same thing that the freight railroads feel, they’re afraid of lawsuits so they don’t really want to host excursions. I’d be surprised if 611 runs this year. The only reason why steam returned to NS was Wick Moorman. Now he’s retired from both NS and Amtrak. The new guy Anderson seems to be more of a Hunter Harrison type guy, a cost cutter who doesn’t really want anything that will cost Amtrak money or is unprofitable. Charters and extra trains are a luxury. Amtrak is going bare bones to show that they can be lean. Mainline excursions are at the whim of whoever is CEO of the host railroad. If a railroad changes CEOs and the new guy is anti excursion or anti steam, well then bye bye excursions. About the Horseshoe Curve trips, even if Amtrak isn’t involved if neither NS or Amtrak want to insure steam excursions or even diesel excursions or Amtrak specials then they cannot be run. That’s the situation we are at with excursions with Amtrak and NS. I wonder if some bad railfan behavior by the tracks, the bystanders caused NS to rethink about hosting more excursions? All it takes is one jerk to cause the end of mainline steam because the host rr like NS all of a sudden views excursions as a risk and liability.
M. Mitchell Marmel posted:
If I understand correctly, Amtrak has jurisdiction over any passenger operation on its routes, whether operated by Amtrak or not. So, if the 765 wants to run on a section of track where Amtrak runs, even once a month, the 765 has to get a "Mother, May I?" from Amtrak, even if no Amtrak personnel or equipment are involved, and, I believe, an Amtrak engineer needs to be in the cab for such an operation as a pilot (to point out signals, local track idiosyncracies and the like)...
Mitch
That is not correct. The National Rail Passenger Act gave Amtrak the exclusive right to operate intercity passenger services. I believe it referred to a minimum distance of 80 miles, short enough to cover NY-Philadelphia. Commuter services were excluded.
I have a copy of the act in my files and can be more specific if I can find it.
One off excursions did not fit the definition of intercity passenger service, being not a scheduled service or selling seats to the general public.
Is this not a violation of CFR 49 11101 mandating common carriers to provide service or transportation? This would seem to include ferry moves of cars and steam engines.
But can Amtrak cut services it deems to be unprofitable or in the way of normal operations? Will this affect everything including Autumn Express or just operations by outside parties like those renting an Amtrak train for a non scheduled trip or excursion operators like 261? New River Train might end after 51 years and WV is trying to fight Amtrak. What about ferry moves of passenger equipment for non Amtrak excursions like 765? The Joliet Rocket could be impacted by this.
Robert K posted:According to this https://www.railserve.com/steamspecials.html Grand Canyon is still operating steam, there are several runs this year.
Only two steam engines are operational at the Grand Canyon but one is coming due for it's 1472 and word has it it will be mothballed leaving only one steamer available for service. Grand Canyon found using steam versus diesel does not affect passenger loadings other than the railfans who keep complaining why steam is not on every train. So for Grand Canyon it makes economic sense to operate diesels and only use steam on selected dates.
645 posted:Robert K posted:According to this https://www.railserve.com/steamspecials.html Grand Canyon is still operating steam, there are several runs this year.
Only two steam engines are operational at the Grand Canyon but one is coming due for it's 1472 and word has it it will be mothballed leaving only one steamer available for service. Grand Canyon found using steam versus diesel does not affect passenger loadings other than the railfans who keep complaining why steam is not on every train. So for Grand Canyon it makes economic sense to operate diesels and only use steam on selected dates.
Any information on which locomotive that is?
How long are we going to whine about Amtraks decision? They should concentrate on their core business of running a railroad instead of moving around equipment that has nothing to do with their business.
Now if those who want Amtrak to move their private cars and or special runs they should pay the total amount of money it costs plus ins. and a amount for Amtrak to make a profit on these special moves.
Sorry if this sounds harsh but Amtrak is in business to run a railroad and if all possible make a profit not to cater to special interests.
Dave
Well....lots of alerts received as this thread has gone political. Some of you guys need to review the TOS at the top right of every forum page... Topic closed while I have the mods go through and try to edit the politics....
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