An Elliot Welz AMTRAK GG-1 926??? (and Lionel GG1 front truck question)

Is there a spring between the top of the truck and the frame, maybe mounting screw isn't installed right..

Marty

Bump for the daytime crew - just wondering if anyone has, or had a Welz Amtrak GG-1...

I like the number details - but I think the black venting looks a bit odd - not sure why he conformed to the blue stripe and didn't black all the vent?

On some real GG1's the upper grills had a metal cover on which the broad stripe was painted, a follow through on how PRR handled some grill areas on the five stripe scheme.  I believe that is what the painter here was trying to replicate.  BTW, the factory finish of Lionel's LTI version paints the grills in the same fashion.

The troublesome trucks of the traditional style GG1 is as classic as the engine itself.  I'll bet some previous owner modified their suspension/mount to help avoid derailments and screwed up the level in the process.

Bruce

Take the shell off and look inside.  Sometimes the restorer will put some marking inside the shell.

Andy

On some early 2332s there was a brass washer between the cast in mounting post inside the shell and the mounting point on the motor trucks. This washer is easily lost when the locomotive is disassembled. When reassembled without this washer the wheels will not ride on the rails properly. It has been a long time since I have seen this so I do not recall exactly how this problem exhibits itself.  But you might want to loosen the motor mounting screw and try raising the shell about 1/16" to see it the wheels sit properly on the rails.  

Any chance that cracking under the clear coat is zinc pest?

Fred

I'd be curious to know if this is a well paint job.  I may still have his original brochure.  Ill have to see if I can find it.  I had my Fundimensions Tuscan GG1 repainted by him into the 4935 brunswick green five strip version way back in 1981.  He did an excellent job.  

Fred Brenek posted:

Any chance that cracking under the clear coat is zinc pest?

Fred

We'll see - I suspect its the paint - although it seems under the clear coat(there's no cracks on the surface there)...If it were Zinc rot - I'd think the whole thing would just fall apart under its own weight!

Thanks for the replies guys - I'm going to open her up later today and look for more clues. (and add a few more pics)

I'll also break out the service manual pages and check what happening with the trucks too.

Here's a potential flaw in my theory...

This is the TCQ page I referenced in the first post (from spring 1979) - everything looks right - but in this example the vents are all black...

A variation? Customer request?

Sidebar prototype question...Were there ever any Amtrak GG-1 that had the older, lower vents? I thought that was a something that happened at the end of the PRR era?

Years ago, Train World was selling Williams GG-1 kits for $99.00.  These were unpainted.  I purchased many and had Elliot Welz repaint them.  They sold like popcorn at train shows.  The Williams was a hot ticket with can motors.  I still have several Williams front/rear trucks in stock.

Welz started out repainting Lionel G motors and did great work.

Well - I can confirm it is a Welz. Found this stamp - posting for reference.

As for the truck problem - is it possible that's not the right screw connecting the two trucks?

It seems like it's shaft is bit too short causing the inside wheel set to ride too high, not even making contact with the track.

Here are photos of two of the pilot truck connection screws on two of my 2332 locomotives.  Both run properly.  The one looks like the screw in your photo.  The other is black, and maybe a little longer, but very similar to yours  I do not think the screw is the problem  

David Johnston posted:

On some early 2332s there was a brass washer between the cast in mounting post inside the shell and the mounting point on the motor trucks. This washer is easily lost when the locomotive is disassembled. When reassembled without this washer the wheels will not ride on the rails properly. It has been a long time since I have seen this so I do not recall exactly how this problem exhibits itself.  But you might want to loosen the motor mounting screw and try raising the shell about 1/16" to see it the wheels sit properly on the rails.  

Ah - had to read that few times, but - that would account for this.

Without the washer/shim, the motor truck sits too high in the body and pulls the rest of the linkages too high...the outermost wheels still ride on the track, but the next set floats. Doesn't seem to affect the bigger inner wheels/power

For sure - there was no washer when I took it apart!

FWIW - I'm 99.9% sure the first command equipped GG1 - 6-18313, has main truck washers, too.  It also has staked magnets that can come loose and slide up against the drive wheels - creates tons of drag.

Fred

The 6-18313 is a two vertical motor unit. The motors mount to a sheet metal frame like many other Lionel locomotives.  The 2332 motor truck mounts to a post cast into the top of the shell.  The motor is mounted at a slant and the trucks mounts with a bracket above the motor.   It is unlike any other postwar locomotive. The problem discussed here with the 2332 would not be similar to the 6-18313. 

David,  I defer to your knowledge.