Announcing the DCS PC and mobile device interface

Hi Dave,

Thanks for developing the system I have been waiting for! We will be buying your system and are now installing Tortoise motors for the turnouts. The concern is doing the wiring right ONCE. In the first installs the turnout condition is indicated by using a two wire bicolor LED to display the position. The LED is wired to the motor leads and senses the polarity of the voltage applied to the motor.  It works really well for this switch controlled environment, but the concern is how will the turnout condition be sensed for your automation system. Will equipment you recommend sense the polarity change and use that information in the control program?

Thanks,

Paul Boston

Dave, I have been given the task of rebuilding the power cart for our modular club. we often have issues with signal quality as our atmosphere often changes. This product you are developing sounds like it will work AMAZINGLY for us. I would love to know a time table as to when this will be available for purchase, where we will be able to purchase it and the rough cost of the system. Almost all of our members have smartphones already so it will be absolutely perfect. Thanks Again, you are my Hero right now!

Travis

Travis,

we often have issues with signal quality as our atmosphere often changes. This product you are developing sounds like it will work AMAZINGLY for us.

What do you mean by signal quality issues as a result of changing atmosphere and why do you think Dave's system will correct the situation?

 

Barry, I was referring to being at shows where there is other dcs systems, and if we are using smartphones over WiFi to a wired connection to the dcs, that will fix the fact that our tiu is in a metal box, should allow for smooth control over the remote having rf signal issues. Our clubs power cart is made if metal and I have no way of getting a better signal to the tiu which is inside the cart.

Travis,

 

If you do that. you're also going to need a Wi-Fi router, and possibly an Ethernet switch if you add additional TIUs. Where are you going to store those devices? If you put them inside the metal  box, you're right back where you started.

 

Just get rid of the metal box or extend the TIU's antenna outside of the box, as well as insuring that other DCS layouts use different TIU ID#s. Much simpler and much cheaper.

 

Dave's system is a nice way to run a DCS layout. I know - I'm using the available version right now. However, it's really not the solution to your problem.

Barry, it seems like you enjoy fighting people every step of the way. This is a great solution to the problem, as the TIU is already connected inside of our power cart, which is a rolling metal tool chest. Putting on an external wifi antenna is a lot easier then screwing with the TIU, I am a network guy by day, model railroader by night. Plus it seems like a cheaper alternative than making everyone bring in their own remote or buy one when we need to run more than one train. We have 3 loops of track and have a yard on the inside loop. There are times when 4 or 5 DCS remotes would be handy. Plus not having to carry batteries for the remotes will be nice too, since everyone has a cell phone charger. Even so, mounting a wireless access point on the outside of the cart will look better than mounting the TIU and all 16 wires on the outside.

Travis,

it seems like you enjoy fighting people every step of the way.

I'm not fighting with you, I'm simply attempting to help you reset your expectations appropriately. I'm as close, or closer, to Dave's efforts as anyone not working for Dave or MTH.

I am a network guy by day

Without getting into it, I can assure you that my IT credentials (both education and career) would give you a real feeling of confidence that I know what I'm talking about. While I'm certain that you certainly know your networks, what you most likely lack is the detail knowledge of Dave's application.

Putting on an external wifi antenna is a lot easier then screwing with the TIU,

That would be great, except you mentioned "using smartphones over WiFi to a wired connection to the dcs". That would require running a cable from the TIU to either an access point or to a wireless router. That's exactly how I have Dave's current system connected for Wi-Fi access.

 

The reason I went with wired Ethernet was price. Dave's wired ProtoNet boxes are $85-95 each. You'd need one for each TIU (I have 3) and one more for either TMCC or Legacy.

 

To connect each of my 4 devices (TIUs and command base) wirelessly instead of via Cat6, would have been about $230 each.

 

Now, when MTH manufactures a Wi-Fi add-on for the TIU, it may be a lot less expensive. However, we have no guarantee when, or even if, that will happen, and if so what it will cost. Further, it might only have an internal Wi-Fi antenna and not have the capability for adding an external antenna to extend that internal antenna. We just don't know.

 

My intention is to curb your enthusiasm a bit, since you don't have all of the facts regarding Dave's app or the associated hardware requirements, and that at this time there aren't an abundance of facts to be had, either.  

Barry, what you are saying is exactly what I was refering to. I do home automation for a living and figured Dave is using a device that takes an Ethernet enabled port and translates it to rs232, that is the wire connection I am refering to. It will still look a lot better having a power cable and 2 or so Ethernet cables over power and 8 pairs of cable going to screw down terminals, not to mention mounting the wireless router outside would also be easier due to the compact size of newer routers. The hardware isn't necessarily new, it's really the software that's being engineered here, that's what i am excited for. I've already messed around with Jmri and have even been able to make it work over wifi, but only for tmcc, not legacy or dcs, using an after market third party serial to WiFi adapter. I install a system called control 4, which isn't top of the line but they have some really awesome products, it's that system that has made me want to incorporate some type of universal control

Travis,

figured Dave is using a device that takes an Ethernet enabled port and translates it to rs232

You've got it reversed. The $85-$95 ProtoNet adapter converts the TIU's serial port to Ethernet. If you want to convert it to Wi-Fi instead, the price triples.

Barry, you must not have had your coffee yet this morning, I said I had done rs232 to WiFi in the past, but that Dave's system would be utilizing rs232 to a usable Ethernet port

Travis,

 

Feel free to either listen to what I've posted, or not. There's no rush, since Dave's "real" app is at least several months away, and MTH's WiFi adapter is even further out.

 

Regardless, I'm done talking to you and getting insulted for my trouble.

Barry,

I did not intend to come off as insulting. I apologize if it seems that way. I just found it funny that you said I was wrong, even tho the quote you took from me, and what you replied after it, where exactly the same. weather its converting RS232 to Ethernet or Ethernet to RS232 is a mute point. I understand wireless will be more expensive, and I fully expect we will do the wired route and then go with a wireless router, as I can get them really cheap from work. 

Again, Thank you Barry for everything, and again, I did not mean to upset you in any way.

 

Travis,

"figured Dave is using a device that takes an Ethernet enabled port and translates it to rs232"

You've got it reversed. The $85-$95 ProtoNet adapter converts the TIU's serial port to Ethernet. If you want to convert it to Wi-Fi instead, the price triples.

Dave 

 

I spoke to you at York and got most of the info, but read this and had some questions. 

 

1. We can use an IR device to trigger inputs? I have Custom signals for my signals and have some IR sensors where we can't isolate the third rail. Yard ladders mainly. 

 

2. In previous post you discussed using the the block detection to trigger other accessories? I see the engine examples noted but can we activate track side accessories via the AIU contact closures. I simple example would be the Lionel guard shack activation. The DCS record playback wasn't the best given the drift issue and tryying to have AIU funtions behave properly.  

 

3. Under the time of day can we command AIU's to turn on lights and scenes for night time views and back off for day time operation. 

 

4.  can you receive and open "RR track" plans to view our layouts for the price quotation. I have detailed plans I did for two layouts and it shows the signals and blocks as they currently exist for Custom Signals. 

 

Thanks

Jamie

 Yes, you can use IR detectors as long as they provide a contact closure.  All of the Z-stuff detectors I have used worked fine with both NCE and RR-Cirkits detection hardware.

Absolutely.  Anything that can be wired to an AIU can be activated by the software.  The activation is usually triggered by actual occupancy, so operation is much more reliable than with the DCS pre-recorded sessions. 

 Yes.  We do this on the NorthWest Trunk Lines.  We trigger both overhead and layout lighting features based on time of day settings.  You can even use an ambient light sensor as a single input that can trigger a sequence of building lights turning on or off.

 RR-Track files are great.  Please send your track plan along with a completed copy of our automation questionnaire (attached to this post) so we can put together a quote to hikelogauge@gmail.com.

If your main issue is DCS radio signal I thin k Barry is correct that we can solve that for you at much less expense with a remote antenna for your TIU.  I posted about that over on the DCS forum.  I think another of your club members is pursuing this option.

 

You may still want to consider layout automation for other reasons in addition to the 2.4GHz radio.  We have tailored our system to work with RR&Co. Train Controller layout automation software.  Train Controller has the ability to build each module or group of modules on separate control panels.  Each track is connect between control panels with "connector" blocks.  If your club has different configurations of modules at different operating sessions it's pretty quick and easy to rearrange the connectors.  If you run the switches on your layout with AIU's you can assign static TIU/AIU/SW paths that could be retained in any configuration.

I just became aware of this discussion site and the great work being done to extend DCS beyond the MTH "remote controller".  I have just the basic DCS configuration... Proto 2 enabled engines, a single TIU or two TIU's in Super TIU mode, and the Remote Control. We plan to have 2 or 3 operators with independent control of 4 to 5 engines at one time on the layout. Our layout is basic enough that we can visually see engine locations so we're not into auto sense.  Turnouts are manual (so we can keep the other operators busy doing something).

 

My first question is how you are connecting the TIU to the computer.  I think you have a "box" that interfaces between the serial port of the TIU to a serial port (or USB) on the PC... if I have this right, how can I purchase this "interface box"?  Maybe it is as simple as a standard serial cable as we once used to connect a modem to an early PC?

 

Second, I think I understand that the PC is then connected to a wireless router (Ethernet or wireless) and a local area network is enabled for access by a wireless device... do I have this right?

 

Third, is how/where to purchase the software for both the PC and the wireless device (app)?  I am using just an iTouch (iPod).  All I need is engine control... no track detection... no turnout control.  The PC is running Windows 7 Professional.

 

Any help to get me up to speed will be most appreciated.

 

All the best from the Grand Central Railroad, Sun City Grand, AZ.

 

Wayne

Wayne,

I have implemented Dave's system, and can provide some answers for you.

My first question is how you are connecting the TIU to the computer.  I think you have a "box" that interfaces between the serial port of the TIU to a serial port (or USB) on the PC... if I have this right, how can I purchase this "interface box"?  Maybe it is as simple as a standard serial cable as we once used to connect a modem to an early PC?

Each TIU is connected via its serial port to a ProtoNet device (Dave's product) that converts the serial port into an Ethernet port. Standard Category 6 Ethernet cables then connect to am Ethernet switch or hub.

 

A Legacy or TMCC Command Base is connected to the PC either via another ProtoNet device connected to the Ethernet switch, or via Serial cable (distance permitting).

 

Another ProtoNet device and Cat 6 cable connects a PC serial port (or USB-serial cable) to the same Ethernet switch.

 

The ProtoNet devices are available only from Hikel O Gauge Trains.

Second, I think I understand that the PC is then connected to a wireless router (Ethernet or wireless) and a local area network is enabled for access by a wireless device... do I have this right?

The wireless access point is connected to the Ethernet switch. If desired, the wireless Access point and the switch may be replaced by a wireless router.

Third, is how/where to purchase the software for both the PC and the wireless device (app)?  I am using just an iTouch (iPod).  All I need is engine control... no track detection... no turnout control.  The PC is running Windows 7 Professional.

The required NetCoupler software is available only from Hikel O Gauge Trains. The other software, while available from other sources, is best purchased from Hikel, as well, since Hikel is required to install and integrate everything.

Just ran across this thread and wanted to find out where things stand.  I went to Dave Hikel's web site and couldn't find anything about the system.

AFAIK, as of this past October York meet, the initial (basic) mobile app is still in beta and is planned to be available in the Spring.

I have been trying to communicate with this company since Feburary with no luck. I had one brief email exchange with Dave about filling out a specification form he sent but after no response after countless follow up emails, web inquiries and phone calls, I don't think this company is in business anymore.

I agree with you.  They seem to have a great direction but it is my sense that they are overwhelmed by their multiple projects.  In any case my phone calls and emails have also gone unanswered.

 

dick

 

I can assure you that Dace and his company are doing fine and are very much still in business.