Atlas O California Zephyr Seminar

I got to meet Jerry at York running the layout.  Super guy. They have hit a  home run on these sets and I love running mine!

Great job, Jerry!

Thanks for sharing the video!!! Great information in there, really liked all the little known facts. 

These sets are going to be ruling the rails of modular and train club layouts for a long time!!! Can't wait to see 'em running!

J. Daddy, Rocky Mountaineer and Big Truck Pete,

Thanks for your kind words which are appreciated. I have a lot of enthusiasm for this train because I've done a lot of research on it and the more I dig the more I learn. For instance did you know that at one point 6 class 1 railroads were involved in the operation of this beautiful train. The first person that names all 6 correctly I'll give a free primary membership to our Golden Spike Club or if you're already a member I'll find a scale piece of rolling stock to send you at no charge, thanks.

PS The pictures above are of the box art we'll be using on the Golden Spike Club sets along with a metal certificate that is a brushed metal luggage tag. The front side of the tag will be etched with a California Zephyr route map, as well as the unique set number. The back of the tag is comprised of a window that will accommodate an actual luggage tag placard so it could be use for travel purposes, which I wouldn't recommend. I worked for a luxury automaker for 35 years and the number of travel tags that were stolen off my luggage was staggering. It's OK to put it on a piece of luggage in your train room, but for real world use you'll be taking a big chance of having it stolen.

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company

How is this?

CB&Q

Burlington Northern

PRR

WP

DRGW

Amtrak

Donald

Donald,

Excellent try but not correct, sorry.

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company

Here's my entry...

CB&Q, D&RGW,  WP, PRR, NYC, and Amtrak

I'm almost 100% certain on the first 5... Amtrak is a guess.

David

David,

Close but no cigar, sorry.

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company

OK... so let me amend the Amtrak portion of my answer to be a combination of Burlington Northern (east of Denver) and Southern Pacific (west of Ogden, UT) during the Amtrak era.  Am I getting warmer?  Or colder?    But now I'm counting 7 RR names (not including Amtrak). 

David

David,

Cooler and I'm headed home from work.

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company

WP

CB&Q

D&RGW

PRR

NYC

AT&SF

My guess on the six Class Ones involved are:

CBQ, Rio Grande, Western Pacific, Union Pacific, Southern Pacific, Pennsylvania

Jerry Kimble posted:

For instance did you know that at one point 6 class 1 railroads were involved in the operation of this beautiful train.

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company

 

In my opinion the key phrase here is the "operation of.......". Thus, the CB&Q, D&RGW, and WP are obvious, however switching operations on Oakland, CA and Chicago Union Station could involve other "railroads". Just because the CZ carried a PRR car in the consist does NOT mean that the PRR was even remotely involved in the "operation of" the CZ.

If all 12 cars in the set come packed inside of the white box then it should probably arrive on a skid and require a forklift to pick up. I get the impression that each car is quite heavy.

Hot Water posted:

Just because the CZ carried a PRR car in the consist does NOT mean that the PRR was even remotely involved in the "operation of" the CZ.

I don't know. Seems if a railroad supplies some cars for a train, it's involved in the operation of that train. I'm sure there were numerous agreements entered into, and requirements exchanged, between the Pennsylvania and the DRG, WP and Q involving the accommodation of a through sleeper, that affected the operation of the train.

As to what constitutes "operation" of the CZ, that's a matter of semantics. I believe there is a difference between operating a train, and being involved in the operation of a train. The specific requirement here is to name the railroads "involved in" the operation. I think the Pennsylvania was indeed "involved in" the operation.

Everyone,

Thanks for your participation as VidKidz got it correct in being the CB&Q, DRG&W, WP, PRR, NYC and AT&SF. You can read about it here: http://calzephyr.railfan.net/history.html

Let me know via e-mail what your preference is for coming up with the right answer either the primary membership to our Golden Spike Club or a scale rolling stock piece 3 or 2-rail.

My e-mail is jkimble@atlaso.com and with the e-mail give me your full name and address, thanks.

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company

breezinup posted:

Hot Water posted:

Just because the CZ carried a PRR car in the consist does NOT mean that the PRR was even remotely involved in the "operation of" the CZ.

I don't know. Seems if a railroad supplies some cars for a train, it's involved in the operation of that train. I'm sure there were numerous agreements entered into and requirements exchanged between the Pennsylvania and the DRG, WP and Q involving the accommodation of a through sleeper, that affected the operation of the train.

As to what constitutes "operation" of the CZ, that's a matter of semantics. I believe there is a difference between operating a train, and being involved in the operation of a train. The specific requirement here is to name the railroads "involved in" the operation. I think the Pennsylvania was indeed "involved in" the operation.

As was the NYC when it occasionally added the PRR CZ car to one of its NYC bound trains.

Not sure this was in effect at some time during the running of the CZ, but if so I suppose the SP could be said to be involved in the operation as well. Gets confusing. 

"The Feather River Route parallels the Overland Route in central Nevada between Weso (near Winnemucca) and Alazon (near Wells). The Southern Pacific Railroad and Western Pacific came to a shared trackage agreement to use directional running. Eastbound trains of both companies used the tracks for the Feather River Route while westbound trains used the Overland Route."

Um, the SP was definitely involved in switching of the CZ at the Oakland mole through 1958.  The only reason I have a Sunset s12 0-6-0 reserved is because they were used to backhaul the train from the mole to WP tracks for maintenance.  After 1958 the terminal was changed to the WP station in Oakland on WP tracks.

Great video, full of great information. One question. What is the radius of the track used on that layout?

Big John Henry posted:

Great video, full of great information. One question. What is the radius of the track used on that layout?

Over on another Atlas-O CZ thread, I believe Jerry commented that the outer curves are O-99 and the inner curves are O-90.  The CZ looked right at home on those radii.

David

Yes, unfortunately my outside is O 90.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Big John Henry posted:

Great video, full of great information. One question. What is the radius of the track used on that layout?

Over on another Atlas-O CZ thread, I believe Jerry commented that the outer curves are O-99 and the inner curves are O-90.  The CZ looked right at home on those radii.

David

I wish Atlas made O-105. I used O-99 on my inner curves and had to use gargraves flex for the outer. 

You can still see the rail peek out from the car body as it progresses over the O-99. 

Very informative video. I enjoyed it. Thanks for posting it. I was at York but for only one day and I didn't have time for the seminar. 

J Daddy, Atlas does make O-108. Just curious why you didn't use that? 

Big John Henry: It won't look as good but I think the cars will go around O-90 curves. 

I can enlarge to 10 feet wide. It will takes some effort that I am not ready to invest. I have not run my cars yet. I have all but the first two and Lionel Burlington F3 power which I also have not run. I gave up scale after 30 years and returned to traditional O gauge to put my favorite post war sets together with PWC selections. I held on to the California Zephyr

breezinup posted:

"The Feather River Route parallels the Overland Route in central Nevada between Weso (near Winnemucca) and Alazon (near Wells). The Southern Pacific Railroad and Western Pacific came to a shared trackage agreement to use directional running. Eastbound trains of both companies used the tracks for the Feather River Route while westbound trains used the Overland Route."

 

rdunniii posted:

...the SP was definitely involved in switching of the CZ at the Oakland mole through 1958.  The only reason I have a Sunset s12 0-6-0 reserved is because they were used to backhaul the train from the mole to WP tracks for maintenance.

So it looks like there were in fact 7 railroads involved with the operation of the CZ, not 6.    Jerry's going to have to hold on to the prize and come up with a different question.

Hudson J1e posted:

Very informative video. I enjoyed it. Thanks for posting it. I was at York but for only one day and I didn't have time for the seminar. 

J Daddy, Atlas does make O-108. Just curious why you didn't use that? 

Big John Henry: It won't look as good but I think the cars will go around O-90 curves. 

They do? Awe nuts... well I guess I can always upgrade the gargrave flex to 108. Thanks for the heads up.

It looks like most of the questions were answered over the weekend. In regards to running these cars remember the 3-rail versions have the Atlas patented Adjust-A-Coupler system that allows the cars to run on 072 diameter curves. You can read more about the Atlas coupler system here: http://www.atlaso.com/adjustacoupler.htm

I would ask many of you to think outside the home or apartment and image doing modular. Even if you have a home layout you could still do modular and run what you brung (drag racing term). The layout in the video is modular and is expandable to whatever length you want. At York this layout is 10' x 40' which might even fit some basements, attics or garages. I do modular and did so because the company I retired from could transfer you at a moments notice and you had 90 days to get that move made and to dismantle a traditional layout would've been a major headache.

As a matter of fact go out and buy yourself an issue of the May/June O Scale Trains Magazine that has an excellent article on The Central Ohio O Scale Engineers Modular Layout. This magazine just came out. There is also an excellent article in the June issue of Model Railroader Magazine on N scale modules that can be adapted to O scale that's worth a read and if that isn't enough I'm currently writing a series of articles on building modules with Atlas track in our Golden Spike Club Newsletter that I think many of you would find interesting. Yes you would need to be member to get these articles if anyone was wondering ($30.00 primary membership).

In regards to Southern Pacific Railroad switching cars for the CZ I haven't been able to track that information down from a third party or another source other than here. It would certainly drive the cool factor of the Silver Lady even higher that what it is now. Most of what I've read was that the SP didn't like the idea of the CZ invading their territory and used some skulduggery in buying up WP stock to make it more difficult for the WP to be a participant in this amazing train, but I'll keep looking.

I'd like to thank everyone in advance of Wednesday's deadline for buying this piece or railroad history. The orders have been amazing both from our Dealers as well as for the Golden Spike Club sets!

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company

Hey,

Everyone I didn't answer the Southern Pacific post on being the 7th railroad being involved with the California Zephyr. I do have the book Portrait of a Silver Lady and I knew about the pictures that were pointed out on page 300 of a 4-6-0 SP helper on the front of the CZ along with a SP F-unit Black Widow on the point of the CZ as well. I didn't consider this another railroad involved with the CZ because they were detours and I still haven't found where SP was a friendly participant like the 6 railroad previously mentioned. This is partially explained in the next paragraph. If anyone wants the full document of where I got this send me an e-mail with your address and I'll send it to you free of charge.

Although railroads have a long history of competition, they decided long ago that it made sense to cooperate in times of crisis. To provide a contractual framework for such cooperation, the American Railway Association in 1905 adopted a "Standard Form for Detour Agreement" which railroads could sign to govern emergency operations over each others' lines. Though modified over the years, this modest document, printed on both sides of a single sheet of legal-size paper, continues to control most detour movements today.

This is not meant to insult SP fans as I'm one as well but to clarify why in my original answer SP wasn't included. Again thanks everyone for your participation in this successful endeavor.

Jerry Kimble - Atlas Model Railroad Company