Away for 35 years, where to start?

My advice would be to do a considerable amount of research before jumping in with both feet. Actually, I would recommend studying several of the basic books that cover O gauge before doing much of anything else.

You will certainly get a lot of advice here, but keep in mind that a lot of it will reflect the personal bias of the person making the post.  The advice may be good, but the mix of differing opinions may lead to more confusion than anything else.

Your question about the compatibility of other brands with Lionel is fairly easy to answer.  All 3-rail O gauge locomotives and rolling stock will operate well enough on conventional and on any 3-rail track system, and you'll have the basic whistle, bell, and smoke systems, if the locomotive is so equipped.  You may also have other sounds, such as engine chuffing sounds, crew chatter, and that sort of thing, depending on which brand you buy.  All of that can be accessed with conventional transformer control.

Before you get into command control (Lionel Legacy or MTH DCS, for example), you really do need to study up on the features and limitations of each system.  Do not be tempted to go with just what you may read here because both systems have their own sets of advantages and limitations.  Again, you need to get past the "bias" factor that you'll find on most online discussion groups.

There also are a number of track systems you might choose from.  You already are somewhat familiar with Lionel's FasTrack (a very good system if you ant the built-in roadbed), but you might also want to explore several of the other options that are available, including GarGraves, Atlas O, Ross, MTH RealTrax and ScaleTrax, and probably one or two more that I'm overlooking.

The MRC Pure Power Dual should serve you well with your conventional operations, including activating the bell and whistle/horn features.  Personally, if I was planning to build a good size layout and eventually get into command control, I would invest in a Lionel ZW-L or MTH Z4000 transformer.  Again, research them both on the manufacturers' websites and through other reliable sources. 

As you already know, a whole lot has changed in O gauge over the past 35 years.  There is more product available today than there ever has been in the past, but there also are more choices that should be made early on if you're interested in saving money and avoiding frustration.  This is a great hobby, and here's hoping you will find years of enjoyment and relaxation while creating your own rail empire.

All the new brands are compatible in conventional mode although the CW80 and MTH sometimes have issues.

Other power supplies are out there, MTH seems to have a better selection at this time, but Lionel has promised a new 180 watt transformer to be out soon.

Legacy is a control system and still needs power. A good system would be a Legacy command set, a TPC300 (to control variable power) and a 180 PowerHouse power supply

With Legacy you can control all your conventional engines via the TPC, and all TMCC Atlas. K-Line and Lionel engines. You could also use some of the really cool Lionel Legacy features if you purchase any.

If you want to use MTH's command system DCS, you could control all your conventional engines and MTH's command engines. You would have to add a TMCC or Legacy base to the DCS system to use Lionel's and the others command system but you would not be able to access the new Legacy features from the DCS system.

The Lionel GW-180.

Welcome back to the hobby.

I believe you should really take your time and browse this forum.  You can do a search for any topic you would like to read up on.  You will of course see the opinions of others regarding certain products versus others, but you can make your own decisions based on your research.  Good luck and enjoy!

Wecome back, yes alot has changed and alot has stayed the same.  You can still build up a nice layout and run it with a good old postwar Lionel ZW transformer.  The postwar era of Lionel is support by a huge supply of both NOS and reproduction parts to keep them running well past any of our lifetimes.  I personaly stay with conventional control as a break from all the digital stuff of everyday life.  I find the change very refreshing!  Current Lionel and the rest of the stuff out there is mostly made overseas in China now.  Lionel went that route not long after the turn of the centry. Some gentlemen I know stay with postwar Lionel and fill out their collections with what they wanted as children, or go hog wild with the new sound equipted stuff and command control (Lionel Legacy or MTH DCS).  Just depends on what you desire and what you wallet can afford when it comes down to it.   Right now, postwar Lionel is very affordable compared to just a few years ago, and prewar is coming down in price as well.  Some of the new stuff is very nice looking with the price to go with it.  Lots of great videos of all kinds of O gauge layouts on youtube, showing differnt track, either scale trains running on 3 rail track or more traditional trains (Lionel postwar size trains) running on layouts that range from scale detailed as any other scale to toy train style in the best tradition of the 50's.   Welcome back!     Mike and Michele T

Thank you everyone. There are a lot of good people here. I'm heeding your advice and reading up a lot. I'm not in any hurry.

Here's what you do: Get a 4x8 platform with a loop of track and get hands on. Reading is essential, but cannot carry you alone. Experimenting is needed.

I second this suggestion.  When I got back into O, after many, many years, I bought a upper end ($700 or so) Lionel RTR set..  I played with that on the carpet for a while, bought some additional track, etc, another (steam) loco, this one MTH, and a few swtiches and just left it a "carpet central" layout for a while as I learned (and had fun). 

It would surprise people here, given my reputation for not only running only conventional but I had a TMCC loco and I bought a controller and all and played with it for a while . . . wanted to learn.   

After a few months I knew enough to get started on a layout.  and I decided to go "conventional" - the way i view it, based on my experience is, that "conventional" is one of the three control systems out there, Legacy (Lionel),DCS (MTH), and onventional (everybody).  Legacy and DCS each work fine with that brand of Loco, and allow you to run their company's locos slower, vary sound and control features, etc., more than you can with conventional. It is possible to "mix and match" locos from different companies on the same tracks/layout, but it requires some effort and doesn't always work perfectly and they can't run conventional locos like RMT, Williams, etc., make.

Ultimately, what I learned convinced me I wanted to go with a conventional control, but that was just me: you have to decide for yourself and the best way to do that is to get some experience. 

Hey FarWest, how about showing us what trains you've been hiding the last 35 years?   Even if it's the same as what we have, we'd like to see.  Enjoy your return to the hobby.

I got back into the hobby 2 years ago.  It was after a 25- year break. Everything I had was post war. Started with a Christmas tree layout and then moved to a 12 x 4 in basement.

When I went to the hobby store for supplies I was in awe. I had never seen or heard a Lionel Legacy engine or a DCS engine.  They amazed me. I added Legacy to my setup and bought one Engine, a Legacy GP7. I played with the track and made a simple design with a few switches and just played around for a few months. I choose MTH's Real Trax, which is similar to Lionel Fast Trac. 

Slow and steady. It is very easy to get overwhelmed in the beginning, I was. Keep it simple, read, learn, go to hobby shops and shows.  You can have a ball just running Legacy or DCS in an oval for quite awhile.  

Best of luck to you.  I find my time spent on the layout very stress releaving. Enjoy and remember....no hurry. I now make buildings, modify things, make mountains...two years ago I knew zilch. 

Lots of great advice here. Read. Actually read/research a lot! Starting small and slow is good. Most important is to make sure it stays fun and you enjoy what you're doing! And of course, Welcome Back! Terry

Welcome back. Good advice from Allan and others, take your time.

Welcome back to the hobby.

My advice, for what it is worth, is to start by getting you a good powerful transformer. A MRC dual power at minimum, or the MTH Z4000 or the new Lionel ZW-L. While not cheap, these should last you for many years and run anything that you purchase in the future. If you end up buying engines with multiple motors, smoke units and lighted passenger cars, you will be able to run them without an issue.

I have a Z4000 and the MRC. The Z4000 is almost 15 years old and has been trouble free. I got the MRC when they first came out, about 10 years ago I believe, and it has been trouble free also. Having said that, if I were to do it over again, I would have purchased another Z4000, not the MRC. 

The reviews on the new Lionel ZW-L seem to be positive and it looks to be a very good transformer. The only unknown is the long term reliability.

First, have your wife hide the credit cards - this syuff is really addicting

barrister2u's advice to start with a 4x8 is great. I never realized how much action you could back into an O Gauge 4x8 layout and still have room for buildings, scenery, etc. Check out thortrains for lots of good track plans (many even smaller than 4x8).

The best piece of advice so far on this thread is Alan's to check out the different track systems before you commit to one. Track is expensive and if you spend a boat load on track that you end up not liking, well...

Like you, I got a Lionel set with FasTrack this Christmas. In the excitement, I found a track plan I really liked on thortrains and ordered all the FasTrack I needed to build it - about $600 worth. Then I started reading...

It turns out that FasTrack is fairly "loud" track which bothers me a little but not as much as the fact it has steel rails, which will eventually rust. I want to run trains, not maintain track, so this is a big problem to me. I'm now trying to decide on a simpler plan using O31 track (I know it has steel rails too but the vintage look compensates for it), or a busy plan with nickle silver track (probably Atlas O).

Cheers,

Ken

There really is a lot to digest.

It looks to me that a new ZW-L would be best, but it is outside of my budget.

Realistically, the Z4000 is too.

For a permanent layout, Gargraves/Ross or Atlas nickel silver would be best from what I gather, but mine is temporary three foot modules for now. I can move them and put them up wherever and whenever, even outside when the whether is good. I don't like the rust issues or the noise but fastback fits the bill in this regard pretty well.

However, a permanent layout is down the road and I need to keep my wife from freaking out.

For now I'm thinking a new GW-180 or a used KW or ZW and go with Legacy down the road. I'll have to think about it more. No Hurries.

I really appreciate and enjoy all of your comments and advice. I also like the patient attitude toward new people. I look forward to reading more advice. Thanks.

The only thing I would recommend biting the bullet and going heads in up front on is the transformer.  Buying used is a good option too.  The transformer will be the basis for your layout whether you choose conventional, legacy/tmcc, DCS, or a mix of them.

Luckily, I have a postwar working ZW (as many others on here use) which will be hooked up to my DCS system and eventually also lionel legacy when I get to that point.

This is one of those areas where you can buy high once and be done vs buying over and over again.

Start with one legacy loco and a legacy set up. 

Allan Miller, as always, your advice and comments are heads up and right on. Wish I'd gotten similar advice before I began accumulating what was necessary(?) for my eventual layout. Would have saved me considerable time and money in the long run. One additional point I might offer this gentleman is if he goes to a LHS for advice, be aware those owners likewise have biases, especially if they cater to only one brand or operating system. 

Find a good used ZW to start, or a KW.  This way you have enough power to experiement.  Then, in addition to doing some reading -- you can get overwhelmed with advice at times, like if you ask people how to swing a golf club -- build a 4x8 table and start to experiment.  And keep reading before committing to anything.  But at least this way you can get started.

Welcome to the Forum and welcome back to the hobby. All of us have our own particular favorites in terms of track, transformers, etc. When you read the responses to your thread, take this into consideration. Since you are in no rush, familiarize yourself with whats out there. I agree, go slow and you will not regret this action.

You can learn a great deal by just reading the different topics on this Forum. Don't be afraid to ask questions here as you have one of the best resources for O-Gauge info right here.

Hey I think "blind enthusiasm" is a great thing.

Which amongst us can say that they have never bought a new whatever, strictly on impulse, just because it looks good?

And then later you find out that you MIGHT actually have been able to live without it after all?

The point is a lot of O gauge stuff is a want more than a need, but that's what makes this a great hobby. There is so much stuff out there to choose from.

Keep it coming

Rod

4x8 is great advice.  I used a modified Thor Trains layout and have 2 tracks, several sidings, 6 operating accessories and one lighted station house on it.  I add and swap accessories as desired and as money permits.  It will break down easily when it comes time to move, as well.

David,

   If I were you I would look into the OGR DCS Video guide and Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd addition, lots of new cool stuff to watch and read.  It will give you

some idea as to the new command engineering available for your trains.  I would also look into the RailRoad trax computer engineering for your layout building. 

PCRR/Dave

All of this is great advice. Even though I'm not running trains yet, following up on all of this is providing a really good escape from stress. I read Barry's book and it was very helpful. I grew up a stone's throw from Pine Creek (Pittsburgh,) PCRR Dave.

I learned a lot by having a 4x6 Christmas layout for a while, especially in terms building/buying Hi-Rail scenics.

get 3-4 smokers and fill the garage with smoke,

It keeps the wifie OUT!

If you want to get technical Rod, all of the O-gauge stuff is a want, not a need.   However, I somehow feel I "need" so many things.

David, I'm not too sure about the new 180w set up...still a CW80 and folks either swear by them or "at" them{I'm the later as you can tell}.

1st off is what kind of layout space, tastes{steam/diesel-new era or old era}, funding and abilties do you have?

A 4x8 is a great way to start and can be expanded as time/needs grow. Start looking around for layout ideas that will compliment what accessories you have- or want. I you like action cars{milk/horse/package/ice/barrel/culvert...} then you'll need to lay track to accomodate those or tweek a given layout to suit. Multi level tracks{say 2 for now} can add to the fun.

A subscription to a good model train mag will aid in track plans ideas and reviews of  alot of model rail products and techniques...very handy stuff.

Track- well that's more of a personnal thing to each of us for our own reasons{looks/cost/ with or without ballast}...if you have fastrak use that..if you also have the old tubular use that too. Different makes of track also have different curve ratings - say you find a neat track plan that calls for 0-42 curves and the brand you like doesn't have the...goes 0-36 to 0-44{just picking numbers out of thin air for example}...you'd need to modify the track plan or use different track with the correct curves for that layout.

You could use a computer based trackplan program to make or modify a track plan for your own use...there's a few out there to choose from- I like anyrail5, but that's me.

Ask questions here...there aren't any dumb questions! We help each other out.

Welcome back to the Hobby.

Lots of good advise on the forum here, don't be afraid to search for any topic, you will probably find it.

Also the Buy/Sell section can save you some money over buying new.

I personally like MTH Imperial Railking products but I also have Lionel equipment. Imperial Railking offers Command control, great sound, Good details and decent size without the price of Premier scale stuff. I believe some of it is actually made with old molds for Premier equipment.

I also like the Z-1000 for power. 100 Watts with a 14VAC accessory power port.

IF you get into DCS the Brick plugs right into the TIU with a simple adapter cable (up to 4 at once) or you can use the Lionel 180 watt bricks for MAX power. This lets you add power as needed VS buying a monster transformer right off.

Note, this does not work well for Conventional operation. I'm stuck on Command Control. I set my engines to speed in 1 scale MPH increments.

I have both DCS (MTH) and TMCC (Lionel older system) command systems and have no trouble between them.

Each had requirements for setting up your wiring and track but it's not hard to do.

You will find Fastrack is the noisiest track out there. MTH RealTrax is right behind it in noise.  I'm switching to ScaleTrax which does not have the plastic roadbed but does have solid rails and the closest to scale track for O-gauge. It makes the trains look bigger and the thin center rail nearly disappears.  It also has the most flexible flex sections made. Be aware that using flex has it's own level of skill needed but offers awesome capabilities. ScaleTrax also has a limitation; Limited switch avalability. I have overcome that by mixing in Ross Custom Switches. They are head and shoulders above all others in function, looks & Customer Service. They also make every switch I've ever imagined. And, MADE in the USA with Real Spikes into wood ties.

OK, now I'm running on.

Bottom Line:

Enjoy your trains !!!

Thanks again everyone for your responses.

After looking into everything, even contemplating a change to N scale (being in Japan buying N scale stuff is easy,) I've come to some conclusions. I want to model in O scale. MTH offers the most equipment I desire and the road names I want to model (PRR, P&LE, B&LE, B&P.) I want command control. I have some Fastrack, but I may want to use a different track system for a permanent layout once I settle on a plan. Fastrack is indeed noisy and does not offer wide enough curves for some of the equipment I may want to add in the future. I want to start with a PRR passenger train if my budget allows, and leave my old postwar and 70's era Lionel conventional stuff on the shelf most of the time. I am enjoying figuring this stuff out almost as much as running trains. It is a complete escape from my life of overwork.

I read through Barry's book. The simplest way to get things started with command seems to be DCS with power bricks. Shipping big transformers (PW or new) to Japan is ridiculously expensive and I'd rather spend that money on trains. Russell commented using the variable channels with bricks does not work well for conventional operation. I would only be using conventional operation on occasion, but I'd still like it to work. My understanding of TIU channels is that I could put Lionel 180 or MTH 100 watt bricks on each channel, using the variable channels for conventional/command operation and the fixed channels for command only. If I wanted to use the fixed channels for conventional, I could use a Z4000 connected to the fixed channels. Is my understanding correct? What problems would I face controlling conventional trains using the variable channels with bricks?

I run conventional now and then with a Lionel 180 brick into the TIU Variable 1 channel. I set it up as a track to run conventional. The only problem I have running conventional like this is the minimum start voltage of 5 volts. That's too much sometimes. I compensate by adding more cars to the consist.

For the limited bit I run conventional the DCS controller is fine. 

It's been asked a couple of times of MTH to lower the starting voltage for the DCS variable channels, but I don't know if they took the requests to heart.

One thing you can do on the variable channels is to put a couple sets of back to back diodes in series with them to drop the voltage a bit and lower the starting voltage.

Farwest;

Jeff and GunrunnerJohn have a point.

The variable channels on a TIU (DCS) want to start at 5V and go up from there.

This may be due to it being designed to primarily run MTH's older Proto Sounds Conventional engines.

It does work well for those engines, I have a couple of them.

I suspect your older engines will run fine on it.

But, Depending on your engines wiring and motors, that may cause rapid starts.

Only actual attempts to run them will answer that without question.

As John suggests, a few hi wattage diode pairs (each pair has a diode pointing both ways) in series will drop some of that voltage and give you slower startup speeds if needed.These have been linked in several threads, a search should bring them up.

As Jeff points out, you can also use the Lionel 180W brick to power a channel of the TIU. You can also daisy chain the inputs to start off with only one brick and then replace jumpers with more bricks as cashflow allows.

As far as Nickle Silver track, MTH Scaletrax is made from that as well.

It also has the shape of real rails and a much lower profile making our trains look bigger.

Can you tell I like it???

Your story is similiar to mine, I just got out some of my old stuff back in Feb.  It had been stored since the mid eighties.   I bought a Rio Grande General set to start over with, all I really wanted was traditional operation and railsounds if possible.   I sat up a 40 inch by 12 foot table with outer fastrack oval and inner O 27 tin track with sidings.   I bought an old ZW off Ebay, although the transformer in the general set was plenty for one train.  I didn't take long to realize the O27 track needed to go.   Since I wanted to recreate the old toy train stuff I grew up with in Lionel catalogs and store displays, I opted to replace the fastrack with tin track also.   I ended up with two ovals and O22 switches to run either loop, change directions or use two sidings.   I have achieved most of what I wanted and am concentrating on tuning up and refinishing the 30's and 40's stuff I have aquired, along with a couple new pieces that have Proto sound and the Polar Express tender which I switched body on and I now run with my old 2025.

I determined the digital control was way to complicated to jump in without  really knowing and understanding the systems and how they work.   Regular old block systems work fine for what I want to do.

I have a pretty basic O scale tin track setup with and old ZX and it is pretty cheap in comparison to Fastrack products and digital control.   I can run two trains, have sound and a recreation of 1940's/50's small layout.  

If you set up like that now, you always have the option of moving up when you know more about the systems and track without having a large investment to box up and put on a shelf.   With this forum and Ebay, you can pretty much sell your old stuff for what you paid for it and start with a new system if you like.

Hello everyone,

My kids and are are about year and a half into the hobby. We did get a loop to get our feet wet and experiment. Afterwards we started on a 10 x 7 layout, be coginicent that there is plenty of product out there. With that in mind plan on having part of your layout if not all of it equipped with 072 curve to enable your self to run just about everything. To keep cost down we have been on the forum, garage sales, estate sales, Dupage train show (Illinois local to us), and watching some auctions: Ebay, Stout, A. Bauer etc. Even with those resources we have let some nice items slip by because of budget reasons.

From another stand point try using this Six Sigma thought process: DMAIC - Define, Measure, Analyze, Implement, Control. In this case I think the Control part is not letting the cost get out of control.

I am still learning plenty by reading the replies to this post!

Good luck!

-Ferromex

I re-read my post from last year, not realizing he already had a loop with a weak transformer. Therefore, I am adding the following advice: Get a Lionel ZW-L. Expand the loop. Continue to read. The best way (for me) to learn is to try it myself, with advice from others. So, buy a decent loco (based on whatever criteria you have--it is your railroad, after all)  and run it and see what you like. Once you decide where the itch is, scratch it.

simply put:

start slow, check out some

train shows.

And most of all

Buy what you like and run what you like.

David;

In  regards to getting stuff shipped to you-in one of your posts, you mention that you are in Japan.  I'm assuming that you are activ duty military.  If so, shipping stuff through the APO/FPO system shouldn't be that expensive.  Shipping is only billed to the port city (in your case, San Francisco). 

When I was on active duty, packages could be shipped at surface rates.  It may have changed somewhat.

The only advice I would offer you is to get Kalmbach Publishing's latest book on Command Control for Toy Trains.  It gives you a good analysis of DCS and Legacy but leaves it up to you to decide which system you would prefer.

Whatever you decide, like everyone else has said, just have fun.

I was out of it for 20 years until my little one came. I was lionel postwar also, had KW and some other little stuff.  its all in what you want to do.  I started with some MTH proto 1 engines, but quickly got to proto 2 and DCS. 

- I invested in a KW for 40 bucks for lighting buildings

- got 3 MTH Z1000's on Ebay

- Got the DCS system. 

- began selling off my old Lionel stuff, track,transformers, etc!!!!!! 

I would start off with better track than the old 0-27 stuff,  then get some 100+ watt power so you can run more stuff.  The Z-1000 you can operate conventionaly or plug them into the MTH DCS TIU for power to the system and run more trains on a remote if you have Proto 2 engines from MTH or TMCC lionel and even legacy to a degree as some will chime in on.  by up track on Ebay.  that is what I did until you have enough to do a 4x8 layout with a few track setups.  HAVE FUN!  you'll get the bug soon enough!