ballast question?

Have you looked at Brennan’s Ballast? He is very helpful & is great to deal with, and can estimate how much you need, and has a couple different shades.

W&W posted:

Have you looked at Brennan’s Ballast? He is very helpful & is great to deal with, and can estimate how much you need, and has a couple different shades.

Yes, Brennan’s is also in mind.  

These photos from real-life offer a sense of the color of it. Perhaps, as I do with my modeling, you could then compare for the color you

 like best.

FrankM

Kon112H posted:

Using Gargraves track no road bed , I  have about 330ft of track to cover with ballast. I really like the dark gray from scenic express. 

1st Question : how much would I need ?

You can save a terrific amount of ballast, and $$$, by first applying cheap dried sandbox sand first. You can by a 50 pound bag of sandbox sand from any of the big-box stores for under $5 per bag. Then dry the sand in empty 3 pound coffee cans, or 5 gallon buckets. Once the sand is nice and dry, spread a thick layer of the sand in the configuration you want your ballast to look like. Then, add a nice thin layer of your expensive ballast, being sure to cover the sand completely. When it all "looks right", moisten manageable areas with cheap 70% alcohol, then soak those areas carefully with Matt Medium (thinned to the consistency of whole milk). In about a day or two, it will all be nice and hard.

Our whole layout is done exactly this way.

2nd Question : #16 or #20 

if any one has a picture of the dark gray that would be great also 

Thanks everyone! 

Per Scenic Express 

“#20 is our best recommendation for S-Scale and 2-Rail O-Scale where accurate scale size is necessary.

#16 is ideal for Fine Scale 3-Rail track such as MTH ScaleTrax GarGraves and Atlas track. (It can be used for 3-rail tin-plate track, but see our O-Scale Ballast listing for better selection.)”

Pretty sure I used Dark gray #20 in this area. Probably has a small mix of cinders added to it. No roadbed was used as this is a yard with slow moving trains and switching.

Is it necessary to glue it down? I was thinking of just leaving it loose.

WaynePa posted:

Is it necessary to glue it down?

Yes, in my opinion because it also adds sound deadening when trains are running.

I was thinking of just leaving it loose.

Again, in my opinion, it will eventually migrate EVERYWHERE and look like crap. Also, if you ever desire to vacuum/clean your track, all your ballast will then be gone. A simple derailment will also kick the loose ballast all over. 

Another alternative is to custom make your own.  The same grade of ground walnut shell is used for media blasting and can be colored to suit with poster paint.  A 20lb. bag costs about the same as one container of the commercial ballast.

Bruce 

Yes, but, don't organic materials invite critters? Correct me if I am wrong.

FrankM

Moonson posted:

Yes, but, don't organic materials invite critters? Correct me if I am wrong.

FrankM

Once glued down it's sealed - no problem with "critters".

My ballast is made from crushed granite and is accurately scaled. And just like the prototype, the individual pieces vary in shape, size and color. Kon112H, I replied to your inquiry. Please let me know if you have any further questions. I'm at your service!

Dennis Brennan

DennisB posted:

My ballast is made from crushed granite and is accurately scaled. And just like the prototype, the individual pieces vary in shape, size and color. Kon112H, I replied to your inquiry. Please let me know if you have any further questions. I'm at your service!

Dennis Brennan

 

Thank you! I replied to your email. 

Moonson posted:

Yes, but, don't organic materials invite critters? Correct me if I am wrong.

FrankM

Frank, I use real dirt out my yard for some of my scenery. Dig it, sift it and put it in the oven at 375 degrees to kill the critters. Works every time!

gandydancer1950 posted:

Moonson posted:

Yes, but, don't organic materials invite critters? Correct me if I am wrong.

FrankM

Frank, I use real dirt out my yard for some of my scenery. Dig it, sift it and put it in the oven at 375 degrees to kill the critters. Works every time!

Interesting. Thus you have "baked critters" throughout your scenery?

Thank you everyone I am going to  Brennan’s!  

WaynePa posted:

Is it necessary to glue it down? I was thinking of just leaving it loose.

Of course, leave it loose!  That's what the 1:1 guys do, and gravity still works great....even at 1:48.  I plan to do this, too......but with some consideration of 'when is the best time to ballast?'...

Typically (club observations, layout construction by friends, How-To publications, etc.) ballasting model railroad track is done as soon as the track is down (and painted...sometimes) and before any scenery, structure installation, signals, under-table wiring work, etc. is done.  In this case, Hot Water is right....it'll look like crap if not glued down as the layout progresses to completion.  Also, if the table is prone to being bumped, walked on, jostled, transported,......whatever....well, I guess gluing the ballast is a no-brainer.

BUT...if the ballast is carefully and loosely applied after the layout has reached a fair degree of completion and will not be subject to a lot of subsequent jostling....except from passing Big Boys and 100-car trains ()...then leaving it loose, subject to periodic light maintenance (soft brush) can be a reasonable alternative.

And there are further upsides.  If you ever plan to modify your trackwork....add/subtract a siding, replace a complete switch, eliminate a troublesome section (kinked rail/joint, sharp S-curve, etc.) it will be MUCH easier to remove/reclaim the loose ballast from the work area using a 'Dust-Buster'-type vacuum with a clean filter, make the changes to the track, replace/groom the ballast, done.

Here's an example...  As I write this, there's another thread in the For Sale category offering some Ross switches that have been removed from a layout.  They're apparently in working order.  BUT, as the photos show and as further described, there is considerable ballast bonded to the ties of the switches.  To remove this mess should the next owner have a different choice for ballasting altogether looks to be more work than I'd care to take on, IMHO.  Oh, and by the way, while we're talking switches......applying glue to the ballast within these expensive electro-mechanical devices can become a nightmare if the glue migrates to parts that are supposed to freely move.  Another reason to avoid ballast glue.  

One of our long ago customers (LHS) had a reasonable compromise to the whole subject, though.  He glued the ballast to the edges of the roadbed (beveled cork), but kept the glue away from track/switches altogether.  After the ballast along the edges was dry, he'd follow up by applying a loose layer of ballast between the ties.  It worked on his permanent layout.  In fact he felt the glued edges helped to retain the loose layer between the ties.  Modifications to the track were easy/clean/quick to re-ballast, he claimed.

In the end, though, it's a TEHO situation.  People have favorites for everything in the hobby....colors, techniques, materials, etc..  Finding your own favorite is part of the hobby.  We offer opinions, not rules.

KD

KD that part is a great idea.  I’m working the one section now that is the most reaching over and making messes around the track. My goal is to complete that area before I ballast.  

I have to disagree with not gluing ballast or any scenery materials. Here are 2 quick questions: How do you clean your track without disturbing the ballast? How do you remove dust without vacuuming? 

Also, the idea that glued ballast is difficult to remove is an exaggeration. If you used regular white glue and water as your bonding agent, the ballast can be easily removed by simply applying water and letting it sit. The track will come up and the ballast can be vacuumed up and reclaimed.  

DennisB posted:

I have to disagree with not gluing ballast or any scenery materials. Here are 2 quick questions: How do you clean your track without disturbing the ballast? How do you remove dust without vacuuming? 

Also, the idea that glued ballast is difficult to remove is an exaggeration. If you used regular white glue and water as your bonding agent, the ballast can be easily removed by simply applying water and letting it sit. The track will come up and the ballast can be vacuumed up and reclaimed.  

Correct. And,,,,,,if you used Matt Medium, as we did, that glue is VERY easily softened/ removed with cheap 70% alcohol.

Additionally, there is no need to use a 50/50 white glue/water mix for bonding. I use 2 parts water to 1 part white glue. 

We've all seen crumbling ballast.  That happens because the ballast was not saturated with wet water prior to bonding. The result is that the bonding solution does not disperse throughout the ballast and you're left with a hard crust that will crumble.  Using a stronger glue mixture does not solve that problem.  

KON112H,

What ever you end up buying, if you can get a couple of colors, you can make things more interesting by varying things as you proceed. Maybe use the lighter colors where the "newer" track is. Mix some of both 50/50 or 20/80 to represent some ballast that came from a different source. Maybe make some siding darker with a black-brown wash to represent an older somewhat neglected section of track.

This is Brennan’s ballast on tubular track done with sand base and ballast over the top and glued per Dennis Brennan’s recommendation.

It looks great, MIKEY.

Another alternative (as long as you're not running any vintage Lionel with Magna-Traction) is to use roofing granules which can be purchase for about $20 for a 50# pail. My track length is about 360 feet and I used about 120# of the stuff, which is why I chose this route and not with the more specialized products like Brennan's or Scenic Express. It is almost a perfect scale size for O, and goes down and glues exactly the same way. It has a manufactured product and not a native mineral and has an iron compound a as mildew retardant. That's why it's a tad magnetic and will be attracted to loco gear trains (experience). I bought the light gray. It is available in different colors at major roofing supply houses.