Do you guys think once lionel releases the base three for legacy people will sell the 990 set up for a reasonable price again or do u think they will still be selling used ones for double or triple the amount they costed new
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@Francostrains posted:Do you guys think once lionel releases the base three for legacy people will sell the 990 set up for a reasonable price again or do u think they will still be selling used ones for double or triple the amount they costed new
No way to know, but I suspect the price will come down since some of the demand is based on there being no alternatives at the moment. The one question mark to me is how many people are hyped on having the Cab 2 handheld controller (who feel the 1L is too limited) and don't want to use the App to control the base 3, that could keep the price high. The downside to the cab 2/990 is obvious, if it breaks you can't get it fixed.
Lionel is still repairing 990s according to folks recently sending them in.
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Yes for which of @Mike0289's questions? There were two of them.
Mike
Yes they are still fixing them. They stated they have enough parts to fix them for some time.
I don't think they ran out yet.
@Francostrains posted:Also how do u break the controller or what breaks on them
Dropping them could cause an issue. I dropped one, still works fine.
Pushing too hard on the touch screen, when it's a "touch screen" has resulted in cracked glass and other issues.
Sometimes there are failures of the screen.
Having said all of that. I think there is an overwhelming assumption that all new modern Lionel items will fail. That's simply not the case.
Keep in mind portion of failures are operator induced. There have been several posts on cracked tough pad glass over the years. I believe Lionel picked up the tab on these as well.
I don't know the current status of 990 parts, but the reason Lionel said they stopped selling it was because the parts to make them were no longer available, and rather than re-engineer the 990, they went to the base 3. What that likely means is Lionel has parts stockpiled but that could be a very finite supply. If they can/t get the components they needed to make new 990s, it means they can't get the parts for repair, either.
One of the reasons they went with the CAB 3 where it primarily is designed to be run via an app over wifi is that it is a lot easier to support an app than a hardware controller. Yes, they still have the 1L controller(for how long, no one knows) but that doesn't support the full range of legacy controls. It likely will be a lot easier to re-engineer the cab 3 base if components are not available, then it was to do a unit like the 990, given that its primary interface is code based .
I believe Lionel is currently fixing them, they really don't have any choice given they won't have an alternate until late next year (my guess is it will be more like nov 2023), if they just tell 990 owners "you are on your own", not exactly going to endear them to the customer base already mad the Cab 3 is still vaporware. I think once the Base 3 ships that support for the 990 will evaporate pretty quickly and the parts may be like the boards for older legacy engines that suddenly disappeared. Think about it, once they have the Cab 3, they don't make any money fixing old 990's, would rather people buy the new unit, any real profit off the 990 is ages ago now.
@bigkid posted:Think about it, once they have the Cab 3, they don't make any money fixing old 990's, would rather people buy the new unit, any real profit off the 990 is ages ago now.
The money is in the $2500 vision line locos.
As far as how popular running trains solely with apps is. The jury is still out.
They may have to come up with a new Legacy handheld.
I for one will never be interested in running trains from a screen. If my handheld ever goes. So do the trains.
No app will ever run trains as good as the Legacy handheld.
I hope someone stages a switching competing between the app with ones favorite device, and the 990. I'd bet all of my trains it would be no contest.
I expect 990 Base to be for sale cheap once Base3 ships, the CAB2 remote not as much.
Jim
@Francostrains posted:Isnt the 990 the base and remote
The 990 is the base and remote is the 6-14295 is the “Legacy System”, but people call the base the 990 base or Legacy base.
@Francostrains posted:Does anyone know when the base three comes out
I recommend you use the search function. That said, no. Only Lionel knows, and maybe not even them.
The delivery date has been moved a couple of times, but the best guess is September 2023.
@Francostrains posted:Its gona be sweet i just hope i can still use my 360watt powermaster with the two 180 watt bricks that i have purchased to run all my legacy engines that i run in conventional with my zw
Why would you need a PowerMaster to run the Legacy engines?
The Legacy PowerMaster is only needed to run conventional stuff from the command remote. For command operation, you just put the 18 volts on the track and you're in business.
I'd just use an adapter cable from the PH180. I have four PH180's powering my layout, I don't have any PowerMasters or TPC's.
Obviously, you do need a command system like the #990 to run in command mode.
I use the PowerMasters 360w - due to the ability to turn the track power on/off from the Cab2 remote.
I have found that if you also have DCS, its best to use the 22uh Choke after the Powermaster, and before the TIU. If not the DCS signal is degraded. Make sure the Choke is rated for 20 or 10 amps depending on which Powermaster you use.
Jim
IMO, it's nuts to have 40 amps on the track! You're risking major damage in a derailment, I've seen it!
Wouldn't it be 20 Amps? 180 Watt Each PH-180 (180 Watt / 18v = 10 Amps) * 2 = 20
PH-180 plug directly into the Powermasters.
Jim
Yes GRJ says he has 4 180 watt bricks, but I know GRJ isn't crazy enough to tie them all together on the same loop, or without breaks so all 40 isn't available to any given section!!!!!
Thats called ARC WELDING.
Jim
Well, he said 40A, but even 20A is not recommended, at least not by me. One thing I like about the PH180 is the excellent breaker, but if you parallel them, that breaker sometimes gets confused. For one modular show, we had paralleled PH180's, and several derailments through the show resulted in some damage to wheels/pickups when the breakers didn't trip properly.
I won't run my trains on such a lash-up, others may have a different opinion. I don't have anything that won't run properly on 10 amps, and I regularly run three trains on my mainline with 10 amps.
Here's my setup. The power from the four bricks go through the MTH TIU and out to the tracks. None of my tracks have more than 10 amps on them, they're separate power districts.
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GRJ,
You might need more than 10 Amps if you had a young train enthusiast that does stuff like mine does:
He wanted to out do @ericstrains.com. We could of done more, but I stopped him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zNbnRoFndA
Jim
A related question. Can you use a power strip to turn on both your command base and power brick at the same time? Or is there a risk of a command loco seeing the 18v before it sees the common signal and runaway?
@Jim Sandman posted:GRJ,
You might need more than 10 Amps if you had a young train enthusiast that does stuff like mine does:
He wanted to out do @ericstrains.com. We could of done more, but I stopped him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zNbnRoFndA
Jim
I have the locomotives to duplicate that, but I've never tried. I typically stop at triple-heading with mine. 
@Francostrains posted:Oh wow that looks so confusing what is the adaptor u use to go straight to the tracks
You can build the adapter with the proper Molex connectors.
Molex Female housing 538-03-09-2032
Molex Male housing 538-03-09-1032
Molex Male pins 538-02-09-2103
Molex Female pins 538-02-09-1104
@Ward H posted:A related question. Can you use a power strip to turn on both your command base and power brick at the same time? Or is there a risk of a command loco seeing the 18v before it sees the common signal and runaway?
It's best to turn the command base on first. My command base come on with the master switch, and then I power up the tracks. Truthfully, many people do turn them on at the same time, and I used to do that with previous layouts, but it just worked out that I do it the more failsafe way now. I do know more than one person that has experienced runaways powering them up at the same time.
Makes sense, I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks John!
That good to know turn command on first then the track so i need all thoseconnectors to connect to my trAck
Question @gunrunnerjohn...
Is this scenario true for DCS too? I was trying to logically think what happens when a Command unit (be it TMCC or DCS) is powered up first followed by actual track voltage.
My fundamental understanding is, TMCC engines receive commands via the antenna in each engine. But without track power are the engines really "awake" to acknowledge the radio signal?
For DCS (again...my basic understanding), the engine commands and "wake up" signal are encoded via the track power. No track power, no signals.
This scenario kinda reminds me of "the chicken and the egg"....which happens first 
?
Ow! My head hurts 
!
@Junior posted:My fundamental understanding is, TMCC engines receive commands via the antenna in each engine. But without track power are the engines really "awake" to acknowledge the radio signal?
They do and they are not. But it's very important as soon as they power up that they receive and detect the radio signal. If they don't they'll engage conventional mode and take off down the track.
While the shift to conventional takes a few seconds it's better to be safe and ensure that the command base is powered up first so that the radio signal is not missed immediately after power is applied to the track.
Mike
@Junior posted:Is this scenario true for DCS too? I was trying to logically think what happens when a Command unit (be it TMCC or DCS) is powered up first followed by actual track voltage.
DCS is a bit different. The TIU can be turned on at the same time or before the individual TIU individual output channel power. The TIU generates the watchdog signal anytime voltage is applied to a specific TIU channel.
Thanks @Mellow Hudson Mike and @gunrunnerjohn for the clarification. Looks like I'll have to move a few plugs around to make sure the TMCC base comes on with all the other Accessories.
I use 2 switched power strips. One is plugged into the other; kind of a Primary/Secondary arrangement. Accessories/first power strip must be turned on first to provide power to the second power strip. I'll plug the TMCC base into the first power strip. The TIU is already plugged into the second power strip along with the PW ZWs.
I’ve been messing around with a smart 6 plug. You can group plugs and program delays to specific plugs when you turn the strip on. Allows you to program the command to turn on first. Negative is you have to use your phone or tablet to take advantage of the feature.
I like the idea of the smart plug strip. I wonder if it can be controlled by Alexa? I'll have to look into that.
I use have several Amazon smart Plugs in our condo. Makes it easy to set all of our Christmas Lights to come on and go off at the same time each day.
I also use a couple to turn on the lights and power strip for my upstairs train area. I don't have the issue of timing between the power brick and command base as I use a Z750 controller to control track power.
The grandkids love saying "Alexa, Turn on the Christmas Train" and having the train start running and hearing Alexa respond with "Enjoy the trains"
Not for everyone, I know.
Ward
I have a variation on the smart plug idea. I actually don't like having a voice command that can be anywhere in the house to fire up the layout, that seems like a pretty bad idea!
I used a bunch of RF remote switches, and I have a few of the controllers around the layout so there's always one close. I have one that's the main master control, and then there are four that control each of the four 180W transformers. This also has the plus that I can reset the PH180 transformers from anywhere by just toggling them off and on from the controller.
There is also this little pilot light on the wall to tell me that the master power is on so I don't leave it on when I leave the trainroom.
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@gunrunnerjohn posted:I have a variation on the smart plug idea. I actually don't like having a voice command that can be anywhere in the house to fire up the layout, that seems like a pretty bad idea!
I used a bunch of RF remote switches, and I have a few of the controllers around the layout so there's always one close. I have one that's the main master control, and then there are four that control each of the four 180W transformers. This also has the plus that I can reset the PH180 transformers from anywhere by just toggling them off and on from the controller.
There is also this little pilot light on the wall to tell me that the master power is on so I don't leave it on when I leave the trainroom.
That's a good variation on the theme.
I use 3 strips (3 rooms) to power up the TIUs, WIUs, ZW-L's, ZW's with 135 bricks but then I manually dial up the power on the ZW-L's via the remote, these power my track. I use the handles on the remote to power up the blocks, signals and accessories. I don't want to turn it on all at once. I see that being an accident waiting to happen.
@bigkid posted:I don't know the current status of 990 parts, but the reason Lionel said they stopped selling it was because the parts to make them were no longer available, and rather than re-engineer the 990, they went to the base 3. What that likely means is Lionel has parts stockpiled but that could be a very finite supply. If they can/t get the components they needed to make new 990s, it means they can't get the parts for repair, either.
One of the reasons they went with the CAB 3 where it primarily is designed to be run via an app over wifi is that it is a lot easier to support an app than a hardware controller. Yes, they still have the 1L controller(for how long, no one knows) but that doesn't support the full range of legacy controls. It likely will be a lot easier to re-engineer the cab 3 base if components are not available, then it was to do a unit like the 990, given that its primary interface is code based .
I believe Lionel is currently fixing them, they really don't have any choice given they won't have an alternate until late next year (my guess is it will be more like nov 2023), if they just tell 990 owners "you are on your own", not exactly going to endear them to the customer base already mad the Cab 3 is still vaporware. I think once the Base 3 ships that support for the 990 will evaporate pretty quickly and the parts may be like the boards for older legacy engines that suddenly disappeared. Think about it, once they have the Cab 3, they don't make any money fixing old 990's, would rather people buy the new unit, any real profit off the 990 is ages ago now.
Every time Lionel wants to get you to buy something new the story is the same “parts no longer available “ it just amazing apart from the touch screen or screen period nothing in it is obsolete. I have repaired a few (simple things) but nothing in it is really that custom or radical. Reminds me of the we can’t sell to ERR boards as we cannot get the parts………..after an out cry strange how parts somehow materialize.
@jbmccormick posted:I use 3 strips (3 rooms) to power up the TIUs, WIUs, ZW-L's, ZW's with 135 bricks but then I manually dial up the power on the ZW-L's via the remote, these power my track. I use the handles on the remote to power up the blocks, signals and accessories. I don't want to turn it on all at once. I see that being an accident waiting to happen.
I have a similar scheme, my master switch turns on the Legacy Command base, TIU, and accessory power for switches, etc. Each of the four controls separately turns on a PH180 transformer, and they can only function after the master is turned on.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I have a variation on the smart plug idea. I actually don't like having a voice command that can be anywhere in the house to fire up the layout, that seems like a pretty bad idea!
I used a bunch of RF remote switches, and I have a few of the controllers around the layout so there's always one close. I have one that's the main master control, and then there are four that control each of the four 180W transformers. This also has the plus that I can reset the PH180 transformers from anywhere by just toggling them off and on from the controller.
There is also this little pilot light on the wall to tell me that the master power is on so I don't leave it on when I leave the trainroom.
I like using the remote/plugs for Christmas the remote can control 3 separate 15amp rated control outlets. I picked mine up years ago in Home Depot and they still sell them. Each outlet has a short 3 prong pigtail. When energized a red lite will glow.
