Base3 complexity

This control system mess plus quality control is the reason I've switched scales. You might want to contact forum member Marty E about this as he seems to know Alot about the base3.

Rubin

You've expressed my reservations about Lionel's Base 3 -- and probably other O-gauge hobbyists. My layout is dual-wired for TMCC with a CAB-1 and MTH's Remote Commander.  Although dated, both systems work fine; which confirms the maxim, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Mike M.   LCCA 12394

The basic wiring for the BASE3 to simply run TMCC/Legacy shouldn't be any more complicated than using the Legacy system.  If you have a CAB1L or CAB2 remote, it should be just like the Legacy command base from your viewpoint.  I was running trains with the CAB2 using the BASE3 and I didn't notice any operational differences.

@RubinG posted:

Having used TMCC since the beginning as well as DCS, my equipment is old and getting creaky. I watched several videos on Base3 and it comes across as being very complex and neither intuitive nor fun to use. Am I the only one who feels this way?
I’ve got a lot of engines ranging from post war to brand new Lionel and MTH. My new layout will have about 20 Ross/DZ1000 switches, numerous post war style grandchild attracting Lionel operating accessories and a lot of lighting for my kitbashed and scratchbuilt urban structures.
any thoughts about simplification of wiring and Base3 ( with Lionel 1-L perhaps) would be really appreciated.
Thanks,

Rubin

I run the CAB-2 and the newer 3. If your CAB 1 or2 are fine stay with them for a while there is no reason to upgrade. Let the bugs shake out first. The CAB-3 is nice but buggy at the moment

The Base 3 is no more complicated than from before since it is the same Legacy system, just more ability to control all Lionel control systems in one package and some new features with the App. 

Installation is the same as before.  Single wire.   To hookup to DCS, just need an extra module, but same basic setup.

If you like your old setup just leave it.   TMCC systems are in abundance online if you need a new remote or base, so it is not like you have to switch.

Everyone always thinks they are missing out on something if they don't buy the latest thing.

Personally, I like the Base3/Cab3 App system.  Plus, we just had an update to the app that not only did it fix a bunch of bugs, but it even had a re-design to make it easier to use (no more swiping)

Same Legacy system and it is no more complicated than it has always been.

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

The Base 3 is no more complicated than from before since it is the same Legacy system, just more ability to control all Lionel control systems in one package and some new features with the App.

Installation is the same as before.  Single wire.   To hookup to DCS, just need an extra module, but same basic setup.

If you like your old setup just leave it.   TMCC systems are in abundance online if you need a new remote or base, so it is not like you have to switch.

Everyone always thinks they are missing out on something if they don't buy the latest thing.

Personally, I like the Base3/Cab3 App system.  Plus, we just had an update to the app that not only did it fix a bunch of bugs, but it even had a re-design to make it easier to use (no more swiping)

Same Legacy system and it is no more complicated than it has always been.

Well said.  I think you nailed it perfectly.  When Legacy came out we had a lot of the same questions and concerns.  The Base3 can be what you make of it.  As simple as a Legacy Base as Sean pointed out or more depending on what you want to get out of it.

Personally is a hoot running Thomas and the Star Trek set from my Cab2!

I have been using the Base 3 for a little over month now. I use it withe Cab1L and the Cab3 app as well as a 1L power master. Only issue I have is that I cannot turn on track power on the Cab3 app using TR + 1, I have to do it using the Cab1L remote. I use this for running Post War engines along with the power master set to conv vs cmd.

Base2 is now a stowed backup.  Running Base3, Cab2, Cab1-L and Cab3 app.  The recent update to the Cab3 app was a major improvement.   I usually run two or three trains at a time with at least one being a MU.  I run one consist with the Cab3 and one or two consist with the Cab2 or Cab1-L.  I imagine it will take the better part of a year for me to get comfortable with the Cab3 app.   It's all good!

I have not upgraded to Base 3 but I do have some thoughts.

Lionel had to do this. They needed a base and even if they could get components to make the Base 2, it is quite archaic.
The CAB 2 and CAB1L still work as before so people should be happy.

The CAB 3 seems to be a work in progress. I suspect people will warm up to it.

Lionel is actually a very small company with limited resources. Dave Olson is clearly doing everything he can to make it work well. Give him time. Apple a company with vastly bigger resources doesn’t get things right the first time.

Sorry for my rambling

Worth remembering that when TMCC came out in 1995-96 or so, the handheld was considered too complex by some folks,  compared with the ZW or similar transformer handles.  Takes a while to become familiar and comfortable with any new device.  Best to see how it's judged in a year or two.

I think most of the issues have been with the CAB3 app, once that's sorted out, I think there's be more positivity.

I am glad they got rid of the swipes, that was a giant PITA many times.

@gunrunnerjohn I agree, so far I am happy with the Base 3.

My experience has been quite positive since I got it. I had a couple issues at the beginning and the Lionel help site was extremely helpful and quick to respond. I’m in my upper 60’s and a tech nerd, which helped with the necessary programming. I never had a command base and ran my engines with the LC app and BT. It’s been a pleasure to operate multiple engines for the first time. Yes, there’s some improvements needed with the app, but in the meantime I’ll enjoy what I have and patiently wait for the next update. It’s all good!

Gene

OK guys, I am very very very late to the Base3 world; and, have been away from the forum for a looong time.

I have the 990 Cab2 remote and base with no issues; can't remember the last time I updated the base, it is at v1.60.  I only run legacy and vision engines made since 2014 thru 2019; 990 remote and base may be getting a bit hinky (just a few times) when the remote fails to see the base and I just unplug/replug the base and all is good.

Now, in my curiosity, I have been reading the posts on the Base3 world and knowing that good ol 990 may go sometime.  Have taken a look at the Base3 on the Trainworld web site that has excellent info on the Base3; explains a lot about Base3.  I am blown away that I can use the 990 Cab2 remote with it; and, if needed, I have an iPad 10" that I can use with the Cab3 app.  Do have a WiFi router in the house for my laptops and flatscreen.

However, I noticed that Trainworld mentions ' Limited functionality will be available with the iCab APP as well.'

So, some questions: less functionality than my 990 remote??; any experiences with an iPad and the iCab App???

@RickM46 posted:

However, I noticed that Trainworld mentions ' Limited functionality will be available with the iCab APP as well.'

So, some questions: less functionality than my 990 remote??; any experiences with an iPad and the iCab App???

I suggest reading the many threads on the CAB3 and BASE3 that are posted.  The CAB3 app is still in development, a bunch of things still don't work.  That's not to say it's not usable, but you may well run into significant shortcomings until the remaining issues are fixed.  The BASE3 firmware and hardware are fairly solid now, and you'll see minimal issues running with either the CAB1L or the CAB2 using the BASE3.

GRJ, as always, thanks a bunch for your help; I haven't forgotten how you and other members helped me with the repairs on my 2014 VL Big Boy: repair of smoke unit and addition of a capacitor to its motor.

Just a few more questions and then on to reading the CAB3 posts: I am in awe with the capabilities that had to be built into the Base3!  My 990 base connects via a wire to my ZWL to get the signal to the tracks; is this the same for the Base3?  So, more time for the iPad releases to get total functionality?

Thanks!!

My only concern is having some hand held device other than a phone.  I know there were rumors of a new remote. I would consider an up grade to cab 3 if and when a hand held device comes out or my cab2 dies.

Marty

Thanks Marty, now I am confused on a much higher plane; so, an iPad is not within the Cab3 family of remotes??; I have an Android smart phone but no iPhone.

Is there a minimum Android software version to operate Cab 3 without a bunch of hiccups?

Edit: I will be using a tablet

@R Whitley posted:

Is there a minimum Android software version to operate Cab 3 without a bunch of hiccups?

Edit: I will be using a tablet

That's always something of a mystery, the only way to really know is to try it.

@R Whitley posted:

Is there a minimum Android software version to operate Cab 3 without a bunch of hiccups?

Edit: I will be using a tablet

I've been doing some testing with the MTH & Lionel apps and different versions of Android.  Excluding the "GO" versions of Android, I haven't seen any problems with all of the currently supported versions which include 12, 13, and 14. Version 15 just came out last September and I haven't had any experience with it. There have been reports of app problems with the lightweight "GO" versions of Android and the DCS app but seemed to work with the CAB3, it may be best to still avoid those devices for now.

I have also tested the CAB3 app to work on Android 10 & 11 but the hardware you run it on must have Bluetooth 5. I tested an older off-brand phone with Android 10 and Bluetooth 4.2 and the CAB3 app did not work. Generally, devices running Android 9 and newer should be new enough that Bluetooth 5 should be included in the hardware as Bluetooth 5 hit the scene in 2017 and Droid 9 arrived in 2018. To make sure, look up the specs of the device you are considering before purchase and make sure it has modern Bluetooth (5.0 or newer) installed.

@H1000 posted:

I've been doing some testing with the MTH & Lionel apps and different versions of Android.  Excluding the "GO" versions of Android, I haven't seen any problems with all of the currently supported versions which include 12, 13, and 14. Version 15 just came out last September and I haven't had any experience with it. There have been reports of app problems with the lightweight "GO" versions of Android and the DCS app but seemed to work with the CAB3, it may be best to still avoid those devices for now.

I have also tested the CAB3 app to work on Android 10 & 11 but the hardware you run it on must have Bluetooth 5. I tested an older off-brand phone with Android 10 and Bluetooth 4.2 and the CAB3 app did not work. Generally, devices running Android 9 and newer should be new enough that Bluetooth 5 should be included in the hardware as Bluetooth 5 hit the scene in 2017 and Droid 9 arrived in 2018. To make sure, look up the specs of the device you are considering before purchase and make sure it has modern Bluetooth (5.0 or newer) installed.

@H1000 Great information!

@martind posted:

My only concern is having some hand held device other than a phone.  I know there were rumors of a new remote. I would consider an up grade to cab 3 if and when a hand held device comes out or my cab2 dies.

Marty

I went to the Apple app store and downloaded the Lionel Cab3 app on my iPad.  It connected immediately to my Norfolk and Western via Bluetooth - impressive.  However, functionality seemed a lot less than my 990 remote; not nuts about having to slide to different screens.

As Marty indicated above: ' I would consider an up grade to cab 3 if and when a hand held device comes out or my cab2 dies.'

I'm on the fence regarding a Cab3 base for now -- Thanks Marty.