Batt level "Hi"

RJR, "Hi" means that you have a bcr in your locomotive.

Nick,  It's a 2.4 volt MTH NiMH.

Further info: I removed the black socket case from around the battery pins on the top of the board.  With power on & loco started, but no battery plugged into the board, I get 3.14 volts on the pins for the battery harness

RJR,

I have a RailKing PS2 steamer (5 Volt)with the board in the engine. Checking the INFO in the menu it says battery HI.

I found the NiCd battery leaked on the wires at the volume pot in the tender and the blue one came off. I'm sure it will go back to charging and say battery OK after I get a chance to fix it.

Thanks, Joe.

I have also tried another harness and battery.  No difference.  BTW, this is a diesel, so there can't be a tether issue.

Sounds like a damaged Power Supply board.  The pins for the battery on the Power Supply should read 5V no load (no battery installed), not 3.14V.  Not sure why symptom change on test track versus track.

If you install the battery and power up the engine what is the reading at the charge port plug?   It should be about 2.5 to 2.7 volts with a good battery and a good charging system.  Since your reading high on DCS I wonder if the battery plug is not getting a good connection.  Of course I have to ask if you plugged the battery in to the board reversed?  That is the only way the plug shouldn't seat right.  G

It looks like you have the same problem as me. I have a Dreyfuss Hudson from 2000 that was upgraded to 3v boards and ever since I have opened the box it has been giving me problems. GGG said it was the PS board and a tether. Beware, you have a 5v system so you will have to replace everything with 3v boards, $$$. 

Nick, this is a 3-volt board, as I noted above.  It originally had a 5-volt board, but the 5-volt board located in a steam loco failed, and it was easier to pop in the board from this loco than to try to fit a 3-volt volt board with its differing bracket.  Then I pujt the 3-volt replacement in this.

GGG: your last sentence raises an interesting question.  It is possible, although improbable, that whoever assembled this board or changed the sockets to make it a 5-volt replacement board put the socket over the pins improperly.  Should the red wire on the 3-volt battery harness be towards the bracket/rectifier end of the board or the end with the 2 rows of sockets?

Power supply board is easily replaceable, isn't it and not too pricey?

With loco powered up and newly charged battery, I got 2.8 volts at charge port.

That voltage is about right.  Red does go towards rear.  The vertical tab faces out.  The battery connector should be white, it is not required to be changed since the battery harness is a 3V harness not 5V connector.

The 3V unloaded is not a correct voltage.  Hard to say why this is working sometimes and not others.  No broken connector pins between the boards?

If the original white battery connector is not installed I would install one and than seat the battery connector and redo the operational test.   Make sure the battery pins don't push out of the molex connector at the battery end.  That also can occur and may have caused some intermittent battery conductivity.

The other thing is you can connect the battery harness less battery and measure no load voltage at the charge port.  I usually have plug with wire leads I install so I can clip on the voltmeter and get good readings.  See if you get the 5Vs.  G

Re your last paragraph, as I said above, I got 3.14 volts.

I assume that by "towards the rear" you mean towards the rectifier; correct?

There must be an internal intermittent issue. 

I've sent you an e-mail.

Sorry, Misread. Also, could you post a video?

What's to see in a video?

Never mind. But have you charged the battery for 6-7 hours on the track or overnight in the battery charger? If so and you have the same symptoms, replace the battery. If the symptoms are the same, repeat the last step. In the rare case your symptoms aren't disappearing, then it's your charging board. I don't know how much they cost but it's cheaper then I would think. I have the same problem.

Nickstrains

P.S. See Annoying Charging Problem.

Thanks, Nick.  I've run all the tests and concluded it's internal.  Battery does charge, but somewhere between the battery circuit and the main board feed, there's a disconnect.

When I opened up my Hudson, I didn't notice anything that was wrong with the wiring although GGG said it was also my tether between my engine and tender.

Joe, from what you describe, it will also say hi if the battery is disconnected, so that there is o load on the charging circuit.

I had tried 2 different harnesses, to no avail.

Joe, RJR is right.  It is an interesting circuit and it responds based on voltage at the battery 2 pin connector on the PS-2 board.  Unloaded it is 5VDC, but when the battery is in the circuit the battery holds it at it's voltage plus a few .1V at the charging level.  So Normal is when the voltage is around the 2.5V level.  Since the BCR is a 0V potential and acts like a short at the beginning, the Voltage starts at what ever level the BCR had when Track power is applied.  Since this is much lower than 2.5V the battery indicator will read LOW.  As the BCR charges and reaches the 2.5Volt level the indicator would read normal.  Of course the BCR keeps charging unless you limit the voltage with a diode and ultimately the BCR reaches the No Load 5Vs and this time the battery indicator will read Hi.  That should be a normal reading after your BCR charges.

Since a 2.4V battery can't charge to 5V and only gets up around the 2.7V range it reads normal.  If your battery was really discharged, or had a bad cell and was down around 1.2-1.5V it would drag the charge voltage back down to that level and the indicator would read low battery, which it would be.

When you get to the point of the battery not holding a charge the low battery indicator will stay low.   If you had High readings with a battery, it means the battery is not connected, or some other fault has occurred on the boards.

It really is not about the charging system, rather by using voltage as the measurement it tells you what is going on with the battery.

I have seen Power Supply boards with charging faults that trickle charge so low, it takes about 3-5 minutes to charge a BCR to 5V, vice the 30-45secs it should normally take.   G

Oh. I agree with you both that it will say battery HI when disconnected. I've seen it before when running without a battery installed to see if it would run in DCS years ago.

It's just that it has been said on the forum the battery condition (OK) doesn't mean the battery is good, just that the board is charging and why I figured mine was a poor connection.

What does it say when the charging system doesn't work at all? I've never came across that problem with PS2.

JOe,  What engine style and BCR are you using, you should also see hi for PS-2 3V with BCR fully charged.

I agree that there is some misinformation about the battery test feature.

It works as I have described, and symptoms are needed to fully establish how the battery and charge system is working.  G

G,

It's a 30-1164-1 Mikado with the board in the engine. The MTH 8.4 volt NiCd battery leaked on one of the wires on the volume pot and it broke off and I guess I broke off the other when replacing the corroded battery harness even though I usually don't pull the plugs apart by the wiring.

Many forum members have stated the remote says the battery is OK when actually the battery wouldn't pass the 7 second test when track power was removed.

If I remember correctly I think it was Walt Rapp that was told by a Tech at MTH that the remote battery info was for the charging system and not the battery condition.

Right, but it more complex.  The voltage has to be right at the port to charge the battery, but the battery has to be good too.  So a battery that does have some memory effect and can charge to 8V but not hold it for more than a few seconds might come out reading OK on a battery check.  Also, 5V not as sensitive since the battery is higher than the needed processor voltage.  The 3V has to make 5V to power the circuit from a 2.4V battery.  So when the battery is off it really is obvious.   Because yours is the 5V system and the BCR voltage is about the same as a battery that is why yours reads normal when the BCR is charged.   For 3V BCR we are using 5 to 5.4V caps to replace a 2.4V battery.  So when the Cap voltage gets to 5V the battery circuit will read a HI voltage.   G

My Hudson wouldn't charge a BCR I put in it, but the real battery charges. Anyway, might get it fixed on Monday at RTR. Hopefully it's $150-, saving up for DCS.

How do you know the battery is charging? Usually if it will charge a battery, it will charge a BCR.

G,

Thanks for the PS2 charging information on the two systems.

Because I hear a lower volume and then it goes back to normal like the manual said. I charged the BCR for 5 min and didn't even come out of neutral.

Well if using a fully charged battery and it is making connection with the board, the sounds shouldn't be lowering. The only sure way to tell is using a dc volt meter.

It isn't with a fully charged battery. If you have read "Annoying charging problem" you will know what is going on.

I have already read that thread where you said the battery dies in 2 to 3 days. If the battery is good and the engine is charging it, it wouldn't be going dead every couple of days. You need a meter to see if it is charging right as RJR has done. And quit guessing as what is wrong.

I would just ship it to GGG as he is the best for repairing boards if possible. His has fixed boards that even MTH wouldn't do and he probably will save you a lot of money. But it's your choice.

I would use UPS and ship in the original box wrapped in some bubble wrap and put in a larger box. And always insure the package for what it's worth. Good luck!

First of all, the battery is good because I put it in another engine and it worked fine. Second, I know the board is charging, I think it is a part or a defective PS board. Third, I'd rather travel to RTR than ship.

I guess you already forgot the tether problem from the other thread. LOL