Benchwork for triple layer layout?

Hey SeattleSUP,

Another free track-planning program, XtrkCAD, does have a benchwork feature.  Unfortunately, I have preferred using SCARM for my dreaming / planning, so I have no personal experience with XtrkCAD.

If you choose to go that route, download the latest version, 4.2.2, which I did to confirm the benchwork feature availability.  Let us know how it goes.

By the way, the link to your older thread does not work.

Chuck

Is this the correct link? Not sure what the difference is.

https://ogrforum.com/t...ayer-fastrack-layout

SeatleSUP, are you looking for something like this? It's only a simple table with legs and braces for an example, but it can be changed to add L-girders, etc. I haven't used XTrkCAD for a long time, but as near as I can tell, it's benchwork tool allows you to draw dimensional lumber (and change dimensions using an options menu) and display either a top or side view. It doesn't have a 3D view unless you import the file into Real3D. I wasn't able to download that though because the site appears to be having difficulties.

Anyway, all you have to do in SCARM is use the Figures tool at the bottom of the track library list to create rectangles. In the Properties dialog, the Vertical Position setting determines its height with respect to the baseboard. The Height setting determines how wide it is. For example, create a 1" wide rectangle the length you want. The change the properties to -24" vertical and 4" height. That places the 1x4 board 24" below the top of the layout. 

If you want to create an L-shaped leg out of 1x4s, make a rectangle 4" in length with a height of 28". Duplicate that, rotate it 90° and place it next to the other one. Select both and make them a Group to allow you to copy/move them as a single piece. It's takes a little time, but then you can quickly check the 3D view. The only problem I've found is that once you add a baseboard, there is no way to view the benchwork without is being covered by the baseboard unless you view it from the bottom.

I did a tri level awhile ago.  I made a series of modules for an around the wall display layout.

These finger frames actually yield a minimal amount of scrap due to the jig saw like  cut out.  I used most all of my scrap for risers and glue blocks. 

Two frame members were cut from a 32" X 48" piece of plywood.  One 4' X 8' sheet yields 6 frame members.

It would be easy to incorporate a helix or ramps.

Another three rail three level layout I did featured a subway and a high line.  The subway was a loop with stations exposed along the benchwork edges and return loops fully exposed at the ends.

The subway was cookie cutter from three sheets of 3/4" Birch plywood with 3/4" cleat fish plates making a very sturdy subroadbed.  Both loops and the center junction were each cut from one sheet.  Look close at the first four photos to see the flat black subway positioned below the main deck.

The trolley/RDC/Galloping Goose highline was a cookie cutter dog bone with storage sidings within each loop.  These straddled the rear perimeter tracks on 10" high stone walls laid out  along the back wall of the layout.  All wiring was complete clamped tight against the bottom surface with a single loom routed so as to provide possibility of removal.

Top  and bottom views of third level:

Where you have covered tracks you can use piano hinged lids like on toy boxes for service access.  Feeder wires can be routed into a torque twisting position so as to prevent breaking.  Unseen are the upright locks to hold the lids in  their open position.

The duct tape holds wires in routed out slots to clear the cross member supports.

Very nice, Tom!

George

No layout software has premade dimensional lumber. Sketch-Up has library, but no way to import to train software.

The layers- I would shape pieces out of 1/2" ply and support them mounted to the base layer or layer under it. Take a rectangle for L2 and lay the track on it to develop the shape. Then, with a jigsaw trim the outside to shape and cut out the center.

Then, add legs\supports.

The center of L2 should provide one end for L3, or cut that from one sheet. You can splice pieces together on the seams underneath with a piece of 1" x 3".

Essentially, I am saying stack the level's deck on one another.

Attached are photos of the Eagle Scout restoration project. (sorry about the exposure)

This is a four level layout with an 11 x 17 base and one scenery only level. 6" height between decks and a helix.

On our 20x40 triple decker we used a combination of L-girder stuff for the lower two levels and cantilever for the upper deck.  A short helox down to the lower level and a larger helix to the upper level.  Layout is ON30.  Russ

A 24" dropped third level to hold a 2' X 8'  valley for a Galloping Goose vignette.

Cantilevers on 32" centers capable of a 225+ lbs  load are glued and screwed to 2" X 4" which are glued & bolted to block wall.

Cantilevers stud mounted behind a finished drywall:

Tom Tee,

I like that idea. I would have never though about using a 2x4 to hold the cantilever and I like that the arm is on top hiding the bracket. How wide of a board can fit on top? I can't tell if the arms are 18" or 24" long.

Also, could you post a close-up photo showing more detail on how you did the bottom and how wide it is? Or maybe you've already posted that and could just post a link.

I place modules on the arms.  The arms extend 24" to 48".  Inside corner arms can extend 6-7 feet.

Here are some detail and progress detail shots.  I try to keep the floor clear of legs.

Tom Tee,

Thanks, sorry to be such a bother. I'm wondering how this would work on standard walls covered with sheetrock. I'm wondering if the weight might not be too much for the sheetrock over time. I see Russ used a similar system, but his arms aren't as long and won't be holding as much weight. Any thoughts? 

Anyway, I see where you lay sub-roadbed on the cantilevers in some places, and add risers and lay 1x4(?) modules in others. Can I assume you used 3/4" plywood for the cantilevers? And the sub-roadbed is also 3/4"? I saw the module you posted earlier, is it 3/4" plywood too? I guess it would have to be to span cantilevers spaced 32" apart.

Judging by the blocks on the walls, the studs appear to be about 30" in length and mounted 36" high. If that's close, does that mean the legs of the cantilevers are also around 30" and the arms vary from 24" to 48"? Did you use any particular radius on the cutouts for the arms or how did you determine how much material you could cut away to form the arm and still retain the strength?

I'm wondering how this might work for the horseshoe layout I'm currently designing. The horseshoe has two 48" wide by 60" long sections in the front with a 24" aisle and 36" sections filling in around the walls. Given that, it looks like I'd end up with two 48" cantilevers on either side in the front and then 36" cantilevers around the rest. (Figure 1)

I then plan to add a second level that I don't think I'll be able to connect (though I will try). Right now I'm looking at regular girder benchwork with legs for the bottom and a tabletop that would be supported by columns. This level would be shaped the same as the bottom level only offset about 12". If I used cantilevers to support the bottom, I don't know if they would be strong enough to support the top too. Since the track on the bottom level will hug the wall, maybe I could use a somewhat smaller cantilever to support the upper level lie Russ did in his post or maybe a cantilever with 2 arms and a notch just above the bottom level. (Figure 2)

Hummm....For around the wall layouts 32" of depth seem to work the best all around IME. 

I do exceed that in several spots but I do use a top side creeper.  It does not look like a top side creeper will fit your setup very well.   Use curved inside benchwork  corners to maximize space utilization.

Cantilever knees--  I get 6 of them from each 4 x 8 sheet.  First cut the sheet in 32" X 48" segments then layout your arcs.  Depending on your reach you may first rip a 10" X8' edge off for other uses.

I would like to say all my cantilevers are Birch but that's not true.  The above photos are of my own RR and it is being build with left over material from a career of fabricating layouts for others.  A rather eclectic collection of odds and ends.

3/4" Birch, Fir and Advantech are my go to deck/knee material.  Premium poly urathane adhesive and Tightbond III are my favorite glues.  I find several dozen C clamps and the same count of squeeze clamps to be essential.

6' & 8' levels will serve you well.  Plus a lasered waterline to start you off right.

The 2 X 4 uprights are almost 34" long.  You will get 3 of them from an 8' length if you cut their ends on a 45".

I use two 3/8 bolts and two Tap-cons on each stud.

On stud walls I use each stud. (usually 16" centers)  I would not hesitate  to pulling off the old rock and bridging the studs for a clean secure job but I do tend to go over the top somewhat.

Most jobs get a Masonite coved wall and fascia skin so tapeing and finishing a new rock wall is not involved. 

The further out you extend the more secure you need to be.  On shallow shelf RRs I have used 18" metal shelf brackets mounted on drywall/studs..

Hint:  When buying shelf brackets put four of them together and check that you have perfect 90 degree interfaces.

Note:  I am not soliciting for new work.  There are many good custom builders on this forum.  There are several photos on my old photo display website which may be of help to you.  www.curvedbenchwork.net

For quick clean benchwork you can not beat Mianne benchwork for speed, pricing and personal service.

Thanks again, Tom, plenty of info to ponder. When it comes to 32" vs 36" depth, you're not the only one who's mentioned that and I guess I'm just going to have to live and learn. I will see what kind of trackage I can get in the layout using a 32" depth as I play with more designs. I just have a hard time believing that 4" is going to make that much difference. I had an 8x8 Christmas the past 2 years and while it was a little difficult reaching the 48" center, I was able to and it seemed easy enough for me to reach 36". FWIW, my current workbench design is 30" with a 6" overhang, so if I have to trim 4", it wouldn't be hard to do. My current layout design is a 3-level closed horseshoe with modified ovals on each level. Folks have suggested I try an open horseshoe, so that's what I'm doing.

Re open vs closed:  IMO avoid any form of duck under/crawl under. Duck unders are right  under certain inlaws in the list of life's regrets.

Mianne has an automatic lift up bench work section to provide a walk in feature for around the wall closed bench work design.

Vernon Peachy has several lift bridge designs to provide walk in access.  Vernon can make that for any quantity of track width.

No duck-under, Tom. If I go with my original design, entry will be via a lift out bridge and 2 drop-down sections below it, not at all ideal. However, I've been playing with the open horseshoe design a bit today and think I can make something work.