Suggestions for conductive oil for pick up roller use?
Thanks
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Oil is a good insulator. The only way it will conduct is to fill it with salts, or metals. You wouldn't want that. I use a good thin synthetic oil (sae 10 or so) just a tiny drop and rely on the weight of the car or roller spring to push the oil out of the way for the most part. I've never had an issue with conductivity.
Try these two
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I have been using Neolube #2 for years.
franktrain
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If you have some of this Excelle oil, could you stick a couple of ohmmeter leads into it and report...maybe about a 1/32 of an inch apart.
The Neolube probably has carbon or aluminum in it. There is some pretty good electrical conduit lube for fitting the tubing together called No-Ox.
Well, this crappy harbor freight meter reads open at all settings.
Matt Makens posted:Well, this crappy harbor freight meter reads open at all settings.
That's because oil is not a conductor. I wonder what they mean...that it moves aside easily in a bearing to allow conduction? Or do they mean that it conducts the heat of friction away from the bearing points. In any case, I have never found a light oil to be an issue for bearings that have to conduct electrical current. I think there are plenty of bumps that touch without a significant oil film in the way.
I use the Woodland Scenics light oil for rollers and medium for everything else on o gauge
Cjack, I didnt say it was conductive, they did
No worries...I just figured you were pointing out a good oil with no issues using it but I thought we should do some research just in case.
Atlas and Bachman both make conductive lubes that work well for pickup rollers.
I have wondered about this. To my understanding oil is non-conductive, but we are told to lubricate our rollers with oil. Huh?
Neolube#2 (made by Huron Industries, Port Huron, MI.) is graphite in Isopropanol. The isopropanol creeps into tight places and leaves the graphite lubricant behind when it evaporates.
The bottle I have is from 1998 and its still half full.
franktrain
I've always used Atlas "Conduct-a-lube".
I've always used CRC 2-26.
Generally, the best lubrication for rollers is none whatsoever, unless specified by the product's written instructions. There's just no need for it. But, some Williams and MTH rollers just seem to love squealing unless they get oil. When it's absolutely necessary (and I loathe doing so) , I use a small squirt of CRC "Electrical Grade" plastic safe conductive lubricant, and carefully wipe off the excess. It comes in a bottle like WD-40 and is available at most home improvement retailers.
Once you do apply oil however, you've made a commitment to ongoing maintenance because pickup rollers will keep gumming up without constant attention. The high friction, electrical arcing and heat seem to rapidly create a sludgy glaze which can only be broken up with more oil applications every couple of weeks. It's a vicious cycle.
I'm not making much of an impression on the fact that all these lubricants are not "conductive". They are contact cleaners in the case of the CRC 2-26 and have a tiny bit of lubricant. You have to have ions in the mix for conduction...salts...metals...stuff like that. The one I like to use is made by Caig Industries which is called Deoxit. It has a tiny bit of lube in it and is supposed to deoxidize the contact for better conduction. Many have routinely used it on sliding contacts like potentiometers without any sludge, etc. I just use plain synthetic oil light weight on rollers, etc. and never have any sludge, etc. If I ever do find any sludge, etc., a little deoxit would fix it in a heartbeat and I would start relying on it for it's lubricative properties. Maybe I should switch to that anyway.
I got caught up in the Wahl hair clipper oil craze of the 80's. I used to put that stuff on my rails. The 2 rail guys used it to help with contact for DCC signal pickup. Some still use it.
I just put a drop on the roller pin, then use the Dremel with a wire wheel to spin off the excess, and polish the roller surface. Results are pretty good.
I quit putting it on the rails, it collects dirt and gets the wheels covered with crud.
It's not a stretch for me to put current at 18 volts thru some. Give me a few minutes n I'll make a video
I never put oil "on" the roller. I don't want it all over the center rail. 
Ok, don't mind the weird camera angles. I only have 2 hands and I was going for quick
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Thanks for the test. Note when you actually touch the oil soaked leads together mechanically, all the current flows. The oil is pushed out of the way by the pressure. The amount of oil you used for the test is about 10 times what I put on the roller bearing. Just a tiny drop is all that is needed. I have seen some pretty worn roller pins on older engines, so I like a film of oil.
I've been using 3 in 1 applied sparingly with a tooth pick on the roller pin for about 50 years. Seems to work OK. There's always a can of the stuff around here someplace.
Yes it was more earl than I would put on a roller but I've seen my oily messes come across my bench but really I wasn't putting it on a roller it was on the table. I put a little drop on the rollers to GRVS them the free spin but not more than a drop
cjack posted:Matt Makens posted:Well, this crappy harbor freight meter reads open at all settings.
That's because oil is not a conductor. I wonder what they mean...that it moves aside easily in a bearing to allow conduction? Or do they mean that it conducts the heat of friction away from the bearing points. In any case, I have never found a light oil to be an issue for bearings that have to conduct electrical current. I think there are plenty of bumps that touch without a significant oil film in the way.
Roger that. Oil is non-polar, and ergo, won't conduct squat on its own. However, it does sometimes serve to place what dust and grit that naturally accumulates in suspension, thereby allowing the metal to metal contact less grit to interfere with conduction. I've heard HO guys using this on tracks in museum use for the same purpose.
LLKJR posted:
"The purpose of an electrical contact lubricant is to prevent corrosion and lubricate the connection for easier maintenance." - from sanchem.com. Not trying to start a food fight here, but it's the same principle. It's non-conductive. But that's OK. It's either helping to prevent corrosion, or keeping the dirt in suspension to assist in conductivity. I sincerely doubt it is "electrically conductive" all on its own. Results are good conductivity, that's why people have been using it for decades.
Al H. posted:LLKJR posted:"The purpose of an electrical contact lubricant is to prevent corrosion and lubricate the connection for easier maintenance." - from sanchem.com. Not trying to start a food fight here, but it's the same principle. It's non-conductive. But that's OK. It's either helping to prevent corrosion, or keeping the dirt in suspension to assist in conductivity. I sincerely doubt it is "electrically conductive" all on its own. Results are good conductivity, that's why people have been using it for decades.
The link points out that it's job is to prevent corrosion which allows better conduction between the metal parts. It also points out that putting metal into a grease can actually reduce conduction proven by an aerospace company study (credits given in the link). And one of the interesting applications is toy train tracks allowing better conduction by preventing corrosion.
I have a friend with an N gauge layout who continuously had issues with poor running until he repeatedly cleaned the tracks with isopropyl alcohol on a cotton rag. Then he tried WD40, sparingly, which is a water displacement (WD) and seems to have some oily quality. After months of running, he has not had to clean the tracks and has had flawless running.
Atlas Conduct-a-lube
Although commonly recommended, lubricating rollers never seemed electrically sound. With so little contact area. pickup power doesn't need anything hampering continuity. If rollers are binding or seizing, then the problem isn't solved by lubrication. It's dirt, fine metal, rust and heat hardened lubricant that is causing issues from binding and lack of continuity.
I incorporate two methods already mentioned. While spin cleaning the roller surface with my Dremel, I spray a quick shot of tuner cleaner with a silicone lubricant at the roller pin. It effectively loosens crud that has built up inside the roller and flings it out, restoring maximum continuity right at the most affected area. It also works great when maintaining those PW wheels that spin on their axles. We all know how much drag can be caused by gummed up friction surfaces. Wipe of the excess and enjoy.
Bruce
Been running PW trains for 67 years. Never ever oil the rollers. Collects dirt, grime, makes a mess. JMHO bob
cjack posted:I have a friend with an N gauge layout who continuously had issues with poor running until he repeatedly cleaned the tracks with isopropyl alcohol on a cotton rag. Then he tried WD40, sparingly, which is a water displacement (WD) and seems to have some oily quality. After months of running, he has not had to clean the tracks and has had flawless running.
I think Lionel (Mike Reagan) made a video about track cleaning only I believe he used Goo-Gone. If I remember right, he then followed that up with a wipe down of WD-40 for increased conductivity and better overall train operation. It should be on the Lionel video site somewhere, maybe I can find it later and post a link.
I have just been using the oil from an MTH lube kit that I got when I got back into the hobby a few years ago. It's probably one of the Labelle oils, looks similar to the bottles as they use. Anyway it hasn't caused any problems and nothing 'squeaks'. 
Silicone oil and grease are excellent insulators. May want to avoid them around the roller.
We had conductive oil when I worked at the largest computer manufacturer in the 80's. It was used on mainframe backplane to pcb asm connector interface. Don't remember the name of it, but the price tag has always stayed with me. $4000.00 per gallon (in 1980's dollars). You had to be on a authorized list to get it and had to sign for it. You only got 4 oz at a time. But $4000.00 was cheap compared to a customers mainframe downtime.
The only lube I have used on rollers (and very rarely at that) is that milky colored, liquid teflon lube that I got from Radio Shack. It came in a 1/2 inch diameter clear plastic container with a hypo needle on one end. It worked really well for me.
rtr12 posted:cjack posted:I have a friend with an N gauge layout who continuously had issues with poor running until he repeatedly cleaned the tracks with isopropyl alcohol on a cotton rag. Then he tried WD40, sparingly, which is a water displacement (WD) and seems to have some oily quality. After months of running, he has not had to clean the tracks and has had flawless running.
I think Lionel (Mike Reagan) made a video about track cleaning only I believe he used Goo-Gone. If I remember right, he then followed that up with a wipe down of WD-40 for increased conductivity and better overall train operation. It should be on the Lionel video site somewhere, maybe I can find it later and post a link.
I was thinking of frying WD-40 on track but for a different reason (preventing rust while stored). So last night I broke out the ethyl alcohol and WD-40 and got to work. I was concerned the WD-40 would make the rails slippery and hence inhibit traction. They key was wipe it on and then kind of buff it off. Test runs of the 2 engines on the layout at the moment revealed quite smooth running with absolutely no sparking anywhere.
For pickup rollers, I've used a product called Lock Ease. It's very easy to find in hardware or big box stores. It is a light weight oil with graphite. I only use it on the pickup rollers and very sparingly. The product needs to be shaken before use and you really can't apply it with the dropper that is on the bottle unless you want a mess on your hands. I put some in a bottle cap and then use some sort of syringe or tooth pick to apply it to the rollers. Someone told me that I should not use this because it could gum up the rollers. I have never had that experience and in fact I stopped using it for a time and it appeared to me that I was experiencing more sparking of the pickup rollers on some engines.
Tony
I was not successful at finding the Lionel track cleaning video. Maybe it was a post that Mike made here or is in a video and isn't mentioned in the title?
Should have added to my earlier post that I've not yet tried this method as I seldom clean my track, but I may get around to trying is one of these days.
OK, because I'm not a big lubricant expert I went on to Google and ran a search on "Conductive Lubricants".
From what I read most manufactures mean by the term Conductive Lubricant is that the oil stops corrosion from oxidization.
Those lubricants that are truly conductive due to suspended particles causes shorts all over our electrical devices. I did not read far enough to ascertain why any application would require such characteristics in a lubricant," see AUSSTEVE above" 4K a gallon is a bit thick for my blood, but I think it's safe to say we don't wont that effect on our toy trains.
As stated above most hobbyist agree that roller pick up in three rail is not the best place for any lubricant , see "BRWEBSTER" above.
In any case if we must do it, do it very sparingly. Cleanliness and part maintenance seems to be the smart choice on this issue.
