Beta Testers needed for TMCC/Legacy track signal booster

Bravo Dale!  Sounds like a great idea. My layout only has a couple of short areas where signal is an issue, but I know some larger layouts have big issues. I  would love to volunteer, but living in Canada presents some shipping hassles, so not likely a good situation. Best of luck on the new amplifiers!

Rod

A significant part of the improvement is the 'buffer' part of the description.  Many large layouts present a severe overload to the Base's output stage, causing serious distortion and signal amplitude drop.  The buffer has a much higher peak current capability so that it can drive these heavy loads back up to the originally-intended level.

This will be interesting to see the results. I had wanted to try TMCC outside on my G scale. I had heard some results that scared me away from trying it. I think a trackside overhead wire might have been the answer. I would have disguised it on telephone poles.

 I did try it on my basement 2 rail O scale layout. The signal was very strong I believe. I just have a lack of equipment to justify using it. I may try an overhead wire there too, to see if it keeps the DCS signal stronger. It may just have been the missing choke thing.

 I still need to study TMCC/Legacy more down the road. For now, I use it on a separate track to make it easy.

Dale, my layout would be open to you.   My layout was used for  for TMCC testing back in the day before it was released to the public.  Both the layout and I are getting old.  The layout is set up for Legacy and TMCC. 

Dale

While I can't really Beta test your device right now as the layout I have is in a basic loop, if you would like to send any info we can share at the Legacy meeting I would be happy to pass it along. 

Dale  Would love to have the NJHiRailer layout test it for you

bluelinec4 posted:

Dale  Would love to have the NJHiRailer layout test it for you

Now, there's a test!

Found another signal amplifier if that one doesn't work:

I have been in touch with Bob De Guarde at NJHR regarding a comparison with their vacuum tube amplifier.

Initial tests elsewhere indicate about a 3x improvement on heavily-loaded layouts, and that is good for about 10-12 microamps increase on the signal testers using modified R2LC cards.

I am hand carrying a unit to Phoenix next week.  Anyone in Tucson or Albuquerque interested?  My extended RV trip will take me from L.A. to Las Cruces, NM for a class reunion, then cruising around the southwest for a couple of weeks.

Marty F, I would expect that your layout might not have any troublesome areas or engines, and that might reduce my opportunity to see "improvements".  But then again, you might still have some weaknesses.

Dale Manquen posted:

I have been in touch with Bob De Guarde at NJHR regarding a comparison with their vacuum tube amplifier.

Initial tests elsewhere indicate about a 3x improvement on heavily-loaded layouts, and that is good for about 10-12 microamps increase on the signal testers using modified R2LC cards.

I am hand carrying a unit to Phoenix next week.  Anyone in Tucson or Albuquerque interested?  My extended RV trip will take me from L.A. to Las Cruces, NM for a class reunion, then cruising around the southwest for a couple of weeks.

this place is in Phoenix az

http://www.pandprr.com/thepandprr/Home.html

That is where I will be testing in Phoenix.

MartyE, please send me your email address.  I am assembling an information kit regarding the Track Signal Buffer/Booster.

Dale,

Is the project your working on specifically for O gauge or are there possibilities to use this also on slightly smaller S gauge?

Ray

illinoiscentral posted:

Found another signal amplifier if that one doesn't work:

 

Yeah, unfortunately that booster has side effects, such as those shown below:

George

Dale,

First, this is a fabulous idea.  I hope it pans out.

Second, while I would love to test it, the timing just doesn't work.  Shortly the first Panhandle will be in tear-down mode (it's only 10'x18' anyway).  Serious construction on Panhandle 2.0 (11' x 47') probably won't begin until late 2017.

Just bad luck.

Anyway, I wish you the best in this endeavor and I might end up being a customer.

George

Ray, this can be applied to any gauge that is running TMCC/Legacy.

George, good luck on your new version of the Panhandle. 

I consider the Buffer/Booster to be a last resort after you have applied all of the normal "earth ground enhancement" techniques, not a knee jerk reaction to start solving problems.

Dale,

I have an S gauge layout built about 35 ft long and 8 ft wide, powered with Legacy Cab1-L. I have installed the ground to the entire track system but, still have a few places where occasionally an engine will lose the signal and stall with the headlight blinking. One place where the problem occurs is on a metal bridge crossing over another track, the other place is where there are three parallel tracks. This has occurred with a single engine and with engines in a consist. I am not sure if this is the kind of situation you are looking for or not.

Ray

Ray, please give me a call at 805 529-2496.

Rayin"S" posted:

Dale,

I have an S gauge layout built about 35 ft long and 8 ft wide, powered with Legacy Cab1-L. I have installed the ground to the entire track system but, still have a few places where occasionally an engine will lose the signal and stall with the headlight blinking. One place where the problem occurs is on a metal bridge crossing over another track, the other place is where there are three parallel tracks. This has occurred with a single engine and with engines in a consist. I am not sure if this is the kind of situation you are looking for or not.

Ray

you can try Dale's fix.

but in the mean time ground the metal bridge.  we have a metal signal bridge and had the same issue, soldered a wire to the bridge and ran the wire to the center screw of a close electrical outlet and signal issue gone.

Be certain that the track is not in contact with the bridge (such as metal ties on the track)!!  A short between track Common and earth ground will kill the command signal.

I will do the suggested, attach the bridge to the ground plane. The track on the bridge is on wooden ties so is clear of any contact, Gilbert track has both rails insulated from the metal ties.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Ray

Dale Manquen posted:

Ray, this can be applied to any gauge that is running TMCC/Legacy.

George, good luck on your new version of the Panhandle. 

I consider the Buffer/Booster to be a last resort after you have applied all of the normal "earth ground enhancement" techniques, not a knee jerk reaction to start solving problems.

Dale,

Thanks for the good wishes.  We will endeavor to use best practices to make the new Panhandle electrically sound.  If we encounter issues and ground plane fixes don't correct them, you'll hear from me.

In the meantime, good luck on your beta trial and best wishes on the product launch.

George

Like to have a TMCC signal booster for my layout, when they are available.  Regular ole vanilla TMCC, not a Legacy layout.

Dale, I would volunteer my layout, 46' x 30'. I have a couple of places that I have problems with. My email is in my profile.

Dale, my layout covers multiple rooms in my home.  I'm dealing with Legacy signal degradation in my library loop.  Feel free to contact me if you wish.  

Dale:  I'm game!  I'll call you to set it up.

Dale, you are right on that part.  I have no signal issues.  It would be hard to observe improvement.  I always read everything you post.   I think people with an issue should follow what you are doing.

Dale-

Does the signal improvement reduce issues with the remote to base communication?

That is what I am having slight issues with.... the engines to track are good.

Dale's amplifier has nothing to do with the remote to base communication.  That's a totally different issue.

Hi Dale. We down at Angels Gate Hi Railers in San Pedro would love to be a beta tester. We have many areas where the signal is not very good. Have installed wire mesh as well as overhead wires connected to earth ground. Still some weak areas. Our layout would be ideal for you to "play with". Our members get frustrated when their engine stops and light flickers-indicative of weak signal. We also have a long tunnel which is problematic. Kindly let me know if you are interested.

Jeff

Thanks to Dale for visiting our layout on Saturday. Sure enough, the signal was increased 3 times in a bad area. Matt Jackson will be posting some pictures showing the results. If, and when, you are ready on this Dale, please put us down for one.

Thanks for putting up with us on Saturday. It was a pleasure to see you. You are always welcome to visit and experiment on our layout. All the best.

Jeff

Was good to see you again Dale. I was impressed with what I saw.

Here are the scans Jeff referred to.

The first is the "no-load" wave pattern at 455Khz non-buffered/non-boosted

The next is the "loaded" wave pattern non-buffered/non-boosted

This is the previous pattern with the buffer/booster activated. Note the amplitude is SUBSTANTIALLY higher.

I wonder how much effect that spike will have on the signal...

The prototype unit that we used Saturday was an older V0.5 model that has some crossover distortion that creates the spur.  This doesn't bother the FM FSK data, but V1.0 uses a different set of parts that don't have the crossover distortion.  My two V1.0 units are at Milwaukee and New Jersey.

I remember you mentioning that for the first generation Dale, I didn't realize that was the old unit.  It does make quite a difference in the amplitude, that's for sure!.

is this booster still being tested? any more results?

Unfortunately, one of the two prototypes was shipped to the wrong address at the New Jersey Highrailers, and it is now completely missing in action.  The second prototype will be going there at the end of the week (if it doesn't also get lost!)

Tests in Phoenix, Milwaukee and San Pedro have all yielded good results in troublesome areas.

When might these be available for purchase, Dale?  Any guess at pricing?