Big Boy Parts Diagram

Yes closer to the board.. The tubes are very large and are the same as on any other engine they made.... Santa fe 2-10-10-2 has same hose and air flow.

Nice job.  I'll hold off until I have a reason to go in but looks like a nice fix.

I think the confusion is when you say "raised", it the element.  Was it forced further into the batting or pulled out of the batting.  It's a point of reference thing.

Yea i did this from my phone in the basement.. I should of wrote it better...  I had a feeling on this cause i had some very poor smoking units...In the past and fixed them..

It's interesting that these smoke units appear to be more like the older MTH and Train America Studios units. It's not only that they are the more elongated shape; the picture JoJo posted above (copied below) appears to show a temperature sensor next to the resistor/heating element. This was a feature of TAS units in the days when Mike Reagan was still in charge and is still used in 3rd Rail steamer smoke units which are, in fact, TAS products.

I've always been a bit doubtful about these sensors because they can be placed too close to the resistor but I suppose it's a good idea in an engine where the smoke unit is obviously difficult to service.

The velocity helped, but not nearly as good as that video, time to open the smoke unit!

Spoke with Lionel this morning and the parts breakdowns and listings should be "available online by February".

Again that would cause flow issues as it's not the tube that'd affect it, but the opening it's shooting out of.  You'd actually want a smaller tube to get slower flow out of the nozzle.  Think of a hose with a constant water flow.  If you leave the opening, the flow is slow, but stick your finger over the opening and the exit flow increases.  The port the smoke comes out is smaller then the tube and acts like your finger over the opening of the hose.  Solutions are smaller diameter hose, opening the exit ports or decreasing the input to the hose.

sinclair.... in the words of tim taylor the tool man we need more power arg arg arg.

can you hear me laughing on that one?

until warranty is off will just disable the blow down for now. in regards to the video on lionels web site I noticed that the blow down was weak that or these old eyes can't see it that well!

JoJo, You are a Miracle Worker!! Wow, to be able to dis-Assemble an Engine like this and do a repair is a WOW! I do not have a repair station near me at all, and I am like a bull in a China Shop. I do have a repair station in Louisville, Ky. So, thats where I will go. Thanks for posting your neat process on correcting this problem. You are the man.

Happy Railroading! Gunrunner John is also fantastic at these kind of repairs...Thanks!

So by raising it you put the smoke generation closer to the outlet, and also block the outlet with the element, which could slow down the air velocity.  Though the velocity looks pretty fast in your video, but you have good smoke density.  Interesting.   Did you have a before and after video?  G

I can testify that the before video would be almost fruitless.  Although there is a quantity of smoke coming out, it disperses so much that it would be very difficult to see on a video!  So far I've seen two others and they do the same thing, so it's pretty universal.

thanks.

you did not state "heating" element until above.

I always try to remember there are many reading these forums that never post here.

Interesting image.

Are the blind driver contact areas narrower with more inner taper width than the original ones? On a Pennsy T1 that would have eliminated a lot of switch shorting.

Thanks, Joe, moving the resistor/element closer to the board made a difference.

Night and day, MUCH better with the resistor up just a bit higher.  The difference is only about 1/8-3/16", but a huge difference in the blowdown, you can see it now!

Interesting, I notice they used silver bearing solder to solder the smoke resistor, I had to crank up my workstation to 700F to get the resistor out.  I've never resorted to different solder, and I've never had one melt out unless the smoke regulator bit the dust.

Probably a QA spec huh!  MTH also uses a high temp solder for heat elements.  G

So what I am seeing here is quite interesting and I do believe Lionel should be paying royalties to you guys.   We have a $2K plus brand new engine under warranty and you open it to modify it before you have any real time on it.  Your fixes improve the quality of the engine immensely, and I am sure it will be the mod the Lionel Techs do when customers send them back for repairs.  Especially those not on the forum.   Well done to the group of you! 

I am going to get on a soap box for a minute.  Because I have run into a tech or two that would not have given any of this advice had they know.  Even to the point that they have lurked and then reported things on this forum causing manufactures to pull stuff off the web.  I find that level of jealousy or greed a little disturbing on a forum where the group really isn't that large in the overall customer base. What gets done here is usually small beans, but certainly beneficial to this group. 

I applaud all the folks that give generously.  G

I can see why they would. I wonder what temp. trips the heat sensor? Recently worked on a TAS/3rd Rail smoke unit and I can tell you it got hot despite packing it out with new wadding and saturating that with MTH smoke fluid. 

I've soldered literally 100's of smoke resistors into many kinds of smoke units.  I've yet to have any issues using plain old 63/37 solder.  The only melting that's ever occurred is when the smoke regulator on a Lionel gives out and puts 40-50 watts into the smoke unit.  At that point, the solder melting is the least of your problems, since you'll be replacing the PCB and resistor anyway.

True, But I have seen QSI bottom boards and the loco sound boards where the motor power diodes (6A versions) got so hot the diode dropped out of the hole.  G

Hi Guys,

So, I cracked open the boiler on mine & thought I’d  share what I found.

All I did was only replace the smoke batting Lionel Part # 691SMKP008 this is the 8” long replaceable batting stuff, w/out re-adjusting the resister height on BOTH the Blow down and the Whistle PCB’s. It's your choice, it's your Loco, but I would not do that.

Result was massive improvement on the Blow-Down & So-So on the Whistle Steam Effect, of course, how can you see the whistle effect w/ the twin stacks putting out all that smoke is tough anyway.

See Here...

If you attempt to or choose to violate your warranty, Please watch those wires when re-installing the boiler shell. Watch those screws when re-attaching the boiler. There are a lot of parts in there. 

Much better than stock.  I really like the improvements.

My whistle steam is plenty strong, so I just went for the blowdown fix.  I think it's fair to say that it makes a significant difference.

So the implication is that the original issue maybe wadding not in contact with the element, not so much the position of the element?  G

When I opened mine, the resistor was firmly in contact and sunk into the wick, so it was certainly in contact.  When I was finished, I actually put a bit more wick in but the resistor wasn't so far into the wick.  I believe there is a fine line between having too little contact with the wick and having too much contact.

Too little, you get a hotspot that burns the wick and kills smoke production.

Too much, you cool the heater too much with the heatsink effect of the wet wick and that also kills smoke production.

What jojofry & gunrunnerjohn worked Great!

gunrunnerjohn, did you change out the batting or wick in yours?

If a simple fix w/out soldering can do it great, if not well...  It boils down to your own skills & what you're familiar with.

I express concern with everybody cracking those shells off & going in there. Not to speak for them but I think Jo & John probably feel the same. I believe jojofry tried to convey this in an earlier post. Please Be safe with your retail $2699.99 loco which is under warranty. 

I agree with the caution advised in the previous posts, if you are not confident of your ability to get it apart and back together successfully without cooking something, best to leave it alone. 

I actually use a pair of wire cutters on the outside of the connectors in front to grip them and gently rock them to remove them.  When the connector is oriented so I can get to the bottom of the mating connector, I use a very tiny screwdriver to work them up out of the housing.  For sure, do NOT pull on the wires, they will surely break before the connectors come out!

Jim, I added a small amount of wick, but I left the stock stuff there.

I'm in the "not confident" camp having never taken apart an engine in the 3 years I've been model rr'ing with my sons. But that doesn't mean I don't want the blow-down on steroids effect!  If its just a matter of changing the batting, can't it be changed back if the loco needs to be sent in for warranty work?  And did anyone do a play by play vid?  Or live in New England to help out a fellow VLBB owner?  

I moved the resistor up as it was pretty low in mine, that was the "difficult" part, though not really that difficult.  I think getting the resistor more in the path of the air has the major part of the effect.

Hey GRJ - could you post some pics please?  Want to see what's involved to determine whether a novice like me has any hope of improving the blow-down output.  Thanks. Peter 

Sorry no pictures, I put it back together already.  There were pictures in another thread on the BB, what's involved is unsoldering the resistor and shortening it's leads slightly.  I ended up just cutting it flush with the board, sucking out the bits that were left, and then resoldering it.  I added a tiny bit of wick under the existing one to properly space it and put it all back together.

Since my whistle smoke is fine, I didn't bother with that one.

I'm wondering if the positioning of the thermistor is the key factor here, I'm presuming it's sitting there to maintain the temperature of the resistor when you're not blowing down.  For whistle or blowdown, they have to keep the resistor warm so you'll get immediate response, it looks like they've added temperature feedback to maintain a set temperature.

My friend and I both purchased the VL BB's.  But he has an extra screw in the bottom of the box.  It is not the gear box cover.  I have included a picture, any help would be appreciated. He would rather not send it back if possible. Note that has the paint off about 1/16" of the treads and has a Phillips Head.  Also did any of you get smoke fluid or the special calibrated smoke fluid applicator shown in the video.  I did not see it in the box.  

Thanks

Buzz

Also did any of you get smoke fluid or the special calibrated smoke fluid applicator shown in the video.  I did not see it in the.

No smoke fluid but I did get the applicator, look again it is a clear tube in one of the package pockets

Brent