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Big Boy Rumor

B bigdodgetrainOGR Forum Member

Just received this message.

 

From: Joseph Strapac 

Subject: UP Steam Bombshell
Gentlemen:
I attended a meeting on Tuesday evening of the Southern California Chapter of the Railway & Locomotive Historical Society in San Marino.
An outside guest was there for the “informational” side of the meeting, with a proposal for the chapter membership and board to consider.
Ed Dickens; he’s the manager of UP’s Historic Equipment program at Cheyenne. He announced that UP has decided to restore and run a Big Boy as a public relations gesture—and that millions of dollars have been budgeted for the project.
Engineering staff has surveyed all seven surviving Big Boy locomotives and found that the 4014 on display at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in Pomona (owned by the SCC-R&LHS) is the one of the seven in the best condition and therefore the first choice for the UP restoration project.
At the meeting, UP offered to “obtain” the 4014 from the Chapter, move it across the Fair parking lot on snap track to live (Metrolink) rails and then haul it to Cheyenne for a multi-year restoration project. He didn’t say “buy” and he didn’t say “repossess,” and he did leave open the possibility of loaning another steam locomotive to the Chapter to fill the empty space. UP to pay all costs.
At least one Board member is adamantly opposed to accepting UP’s offer. His concern is that the Chapter and Fairplex facility management in Pomona have frequently clashed in the past and that removing the “star” of the R&LHS exhibit would give Fairplex the opportunity to evict the entire rail museum—leaving it homeless. No decision was reached during the meeting. I suspect that the Board will want to poll the entire Chapter membership, but that is just my own opinion. Apparently a Board meeting is scheduled for this weekend.
If a deal is reached, UP wants to make the move by February 2013.
This is not an official announcement and I do not speak for the Chapter or the UP. All I can say is, “watch the media” and check with your sources.
Joe Strapac

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RickORickOOGR Forum Member

"Will we ever see a BigBoy brought back into operational status again? The question still remains: if the locomotive was to be restored, who would operate it and where will it run? Steve Lee, head of the Union Pacific Steam Program, says no where...... According to him, the railroad is no longer equipped to handle the behemoth. Presently, they run Challenger #3985 (4-6-6-4) and Northern #844 (4-8-4) on steam excursions. The Challenger is short enough to be turned on the few remaining turntables and wyes in Wyoming and the surrounding states, those facilities just couldn't handle the extra 12 to 14 feet of the BigBoy. In addition, the Union Pacific isn't too keen on running a coal fired locomotive at this point (both Challenger 3985 and Northern 844 are oil fired)"

TimDudeTimDudeOGR Forum Member
With all due respect to Steve Lee, Steve Lee is not in charge any more and he does not run the UP steam program.
 
Originally Posted by RickO:

"Will we ever see a BigBoy brought back into operational status again? The question still remains: if the locomotive was to be restored, who would operate it and where will it run? Steve Lee, head of the Union Pacific Steam Program, says no where...... According to him, the railroad is no longer equipped to handle the behemoth. Presently, they run Challenger #3985 (4-6-6-4) and Northern #844 (4-8-4) on steam excursions. The Challenger is short enough to be turned on the few remaining turntables and wyes in Wyoming and the surrounding states, those facilities just couldn't handle the extra 12 to 14 feet of the BigBoy. In addition, the Union Pacific isn't too keen on running a coal fired locomotive at this point (both Challenger 3985 and Northern 844 are oil fired)"

B bob2OGR Forum Member

They have the bucks.  Why not?  Whoever is worried about the crown jewel could just get an agreement with the fairgrounds - a good lawyer ought to be able to protect the museum while the locomotive is gone.  I would rather see the cab forward, or even our beautiful Hariman ten- wheeler run, but I have no input in these decisions.

cbojanowercbojanowerOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER

I have always heard that the one in Texas was in better shape for a possible restoration

 

Hard to say if the UP has the time to dedicate to this project. The 3985 seems to be keeping their hands full with no firm time for it to be finished. Also the Big Boys were coal burners and the western states are not real keen on the brushfires they caused. Ones of them (I think the 3985) was all but banned from Utah until it converted to oil. I remember hearing the attempts to convert the Big Boys to Oil in the 40's failed

 

Well if it does happen it will get dragged right past my house, will be great to see

 

The source (Joseph Strapac) is credible, he has quite a few RR books to his credit, sure beats the Guy at the Hobby shop"

I would say if its true and negotiations are at a sensitive stage, it's pretty stupid to email it out or share it here

Last edited by cbojanower
gg1mangg1manOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBERMEMORIAL SUPPORTER

The Big Boy is one of the UP's crowning glories, so it stands to reason that they would like to see one running as a public relations plus.

As for the museum there are other Big Boys, as well as other engines that can be loaned to them. That said, why can't the running engine be considered as a working remote extension of the museum? What a public hook to be showing a video of the beast in action.

 

As for the turn around, I'm no RR engineer but that sounds like a simple issue to address. What I question is the weight of the main line rails, could they handel the million pounds plus under the engines foot print?

 

It is not hard to understand why the Union Pacific would wont to run oil rather then coal, but is there any reason why the Big Boy could not be converted to oil? My point is that in order for this engine to meet goverment specs it will have to be totally rebuilt from almost the ground up, so what are the technical problems with rebuilding for oil fire?

 

In any case, I love the idea and would travel a long way just to see her do a simple run-by.

NH New Haven JoeOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Many steam locomotives were converted from coal to oil during the steam era.  I think that any Big Boy restoration would include this conversion.  

 

I think that most train fans would love to see a Big Boy back in steam.  I think that it would be a public relations coup for the UP to do it.  I hope that the UP does it if the firm has the money to restore and operate this engine.

 

Joe

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Joe Barker:

Many steam locomotives were converted from coal to oil during the steam era.  I think that any Big Boy restoration would include this conversion.  

 

Joe

Joe, the UP 4000 class is not just any other steam locomotive. The UP tried one on oil, #4005 I think, and things didn't work out very well, and it got converted back to coal.

Press2MECOPress2MECOOGR Forum Member

UP themselves (Union Pacific 3985/844 Info) just posted on Facebook that some "interesting and large news" will be shared very soon.
There may some truth to this after all???

 

As far as the mention of the Dallas area Big Boy is concerned, they're already in the midst of moving their museum north to Frisco. They already have the track layed and have been moving their rolling stock for months now.
Perhaps UP is taking advantage of this situation and will take possession of their Big Boy.

N&W Class JN&W Class JOGR Forum Member

Well I will believe it when I see it, I hope I do see it but I can't imagine UP putting millions into a project on a locomotive that they do not own.  As for converting one to oil I suppose they could, the 4005 was converted for a year but I believe UP decided the conversion offered no real cost savings back then and as such converted it back to coal.  I can't begin to imagine how much oil that thing would consume in a mile. 

HW Hot WaterOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Bob Kazian:

Just because the UP couldn't get one to run on oil in the 1940s doesn't mean it can't be done today.

 

Yes, it does! All that "steam expertise" is gone

 

 

 

I'm sure the technology exists to do things that 1940's engineers never dreamed of.

No it doesn't! The UP tried the "modern technology" on 3985, with the Lampour Exhaust experiment,,,,,,,IT DIDN'T WORK!

RickORickOOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by OGR Webmaster:
Originally Posted by Bob Kazian:
Rich,

You did such a good job with the NKP 765 on Horseshoe Curve that they may need your skills to operate this Big Boy.

I think they will do just fine without me.

 

Hey Ed! Pass the popcorn!

Hey speaking of 765 and locomotives that are "supposed" to be rebuilt. What about that mohawk over there in Indiana, are they about finished with it? I'm sure you had to have some input on this operation Rich.  How about a double head with 765 and 3001 going around horseshoe cure next year?

 

It looks ready for the rails in this photo I took 4 years ago!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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S SJCOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by cbojanower:
That page may not be an official UP page

Exactly what I said in my post!

 

 

That Facebook Page may not (and no indications show it is on the Facebook page itself and on the UP Steam website) that is the official UP steam page. More than likely, it is a foamer with nothing to do running it and making it appear to be an official page!!!!

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