Mike,

Taking all the rods off, puts all the drive wheels out of balance.

I don't believe ANY steam locomotive UP ever "donated" has the pistons still in the cylinders, or the post rods have been cut. Thus, the only real important lubrication required for a "dead in tow" move would be for the crosshead/crosshead guides and the rod bearings. The roller bearings are all oil lubricated.

Here is a Big Boy video to share with you all.

Sorry Chris, I moved back to Minnesota 25 years ago, so I wasn't around when it happened. The museum moved in 1998 (I had to look it up). The old building was the Denver Tram powerhouse and is on the national register of historic places. It is now an REI sporting goods store.

While this isn't entirely about 4005, I found it an interesting read. I actually met J D Forney in his declining years.

http://www.forneymuseum.org/News_MuseumHistory1.html

just came home from lima train show.. boy oh boy if i had 500 i couldve gotten a mth premirer big boy..the very rare version that books at 2000..never been run too...figures when i dont have the money something great pops up....the guy that was selling it thought UP had the real bigboy running..said it in CA.. told him no there concitering to restore the one out in CA...

Elliot that is a great read, thanks. 

Check out this video....kind of cool....

wow, i wonder what that thing cost.  i kept trying to see if the rear engine is fixed to the frame as in the prototype or if it swivels like our models do.  could not determine.

No Forrest, the rear engine does NOT "swivel" like some models do, but neither does the MTH Premier model, nor the Sunset/3rd Rail model, nor the Lionel Legacy model.

That video appears to be taken at Tom Miller's back yard 7 1/2 inch gauge railroad, out in Oregon. Tom had that 4-8-8-4 made in Great Briton, and it runs flawlessly (fired on diesel fuel).

Reading this part of the commentary made me think about the U-505, the U-Boat that is on display at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry. It was finally moved inside to an new enclosed display area several years ago (there's a video on-line showing the move and how they lowered it into the below-ground display building site - fascinating moving job).

It had been outdoors since the end of WWII, and in asking about it, I was told that the sub is just a little smaller now than it originally was. I don't remember the exact amount, but metal a number of inches thick of the outside of the hull ended up being removed when the sub was refinished. That was metal that had rusted off and/or deteriorated over the years from being outdoors. With steam engines, of course, if metal gets too thin, it all has to be completely replaced, which often requires the fabrication of new parts, which is very expensive and time-consuming.

Popercorn is healthier than Snapple.....proving you don't put high caloorie items on it!

Yes, I think some people have gotten a cabooosalectomy this week!

Rich, why are you so negative about this whole thing?  So it fizzles out or it is sucessful who cares it makes for interesting reading and brings me way more to the fourm than reading the same old "my new engine does not work"

Have Snapple with scrapple and stay tuned!

I agree, this has been one of the best topics since the intermodal primer. If it wasn't for all the popcorn and scrapple references, it would have been even better. 

There have been a number of interesting links, videos and good general discussion of big boys here, while we wait for more news. What's wrong with that?

That live-steam Big Boy is beyond cool.  I know what I'm buying when I win the Powerball...

That is cool Chris. I think that one is 1 1/2" scale AKA 1/8 size. I saw one that was the next size down, 1".  The guy drove up from Illinois with it to run at the local club. Then I saw it again when I went to the TCA convention in 2002.

I suspect the same is true of a submarine, if you intend to operate it!  

I don't think Rich is being negative.  As a person who is actually involved with an organization running a steam locomotive in today's world, he can provided the needed insight and observations (and corrections) with regards to taking on such a massive project.

This isn't like taking your model locomotive out of its box after a couple of years.

Bringing a steam locomotive back to life, be it a Big Boy or an 0-4-0T is no easy task.  There can be many issues to hinder, delay or even halt the project.  Rumors, incomplete information, half-truths or misinformation do nothing to assist any potential restoration.  If they did, the 4018 in Dallas would have been running years ago.

Rusty

Elliot that must have been great to see in person.  I would love to see that one or the one in the video I posted in person.....maybe someday huh?...

That video is incredible! I wonder how you score an invitation to see them run in person?

"No Forrest, the rear engine does NOT "swivel" like some models do, but neither does the MTH Premier model, nor the Sunset/3rd Rail model, nor the Lionel Legacy model."

thanks, HW.  my only reference is my LionMaster BigBoy which does.  .

i grew up in Oregon and when i was watching that video my first thought was that the "undisclosed location" was in Oregon.  when we first moved to Lake Oswego, the SP line that went through there was still using steam in freight service (mostly logging trains) and they sure looked like 4000 class locomotives (but not, i think, 4449).

I agree, it's not negative, just a healthy dose of reality. The trouble is that the initial coverage is likely to be premature and too much on the side of blue-sky wishes and sensationalism. That inevitably creates a stir, but there's no substance -- it just spawns more speculation. In the end you get nothing but too much signal-to-noise ratio -- a lot of commenting and speculation but not much concrete information. As long as it doesn't turn into a flamewar, its fun to watch. But in reality, all we can really do is be patient and wait and see. Pass the popcorn? 

BINGO. Right on the mark.

One of the fun things in the airline business was rumors.  Everybody, of course, wanted to fly something bigger, and there was always a rumor of bigger and better.  Great fun, and rarely important or prescient.

Then one day a first officer came on board and said " we are getting 757s!". For us, that was a giant step up.  They actually happened.  Then one day another first officer showed up saying we were getting fifty Airbus airplanes.  Well, I knew that couldn't be true, and six months later I was in Airbus school.  Should I tell you about the 747 rumor?

My point - other than that rumors can be fun if not productive - is that every once in a while a rumor can come true.

As to the expense of overhauling a Big Boy or Allegheny?  Chicken feed to those who can do it.  This morning's LA Times talked about a baseball team for two billion bucks, and two pitchers for 200 million.  Just depends on your priorities - for those guys, money is not the point.

My glass is more than half full.

I'll be hopeful and I live in the real world.

Ain't nothing ever handled perfectly.

If the world of railroading wants something badly enough, if any of us wants something badly enough, it will come to pass. Those of you who are railroad experts need not lecture us on how to hope for something. If you want to dash someones hopes, root for the Mets.

Eliot

You know this is definetly an exciting thing, I mean really who ever would have thought about a 4000 actually coming back, on home rails, I know I certainly never did.  Now if this turns out to be true and if it occurs it will be a great day for everybody from the UP itself right on down to me.  That said I am enjoying this thread in a big way, but still I am not going to go all in until I read something solid from the UP, right now I will just remain excited about the possibility and keep enjoying this thread.  Lets hope for the best everyone.

Well here's a 7.5" live steam Challenger for $199,000.00 which really ain't a bad deal considering the just the rough castings cost over $50,000.00

http://discoverlivesteam.com/d...e/1_todaro/index.htm

Interesting point. When I see the insane money that pro sports people get, a Big Boy restoration doesn't seem so crazy. Someone could get big publicity value out of an operating Big Boy.

Maybe Union Pacific is planning some huge publicity stunt for 2019, the 150th anniversary of the linking of the first transcontinental railroad. Two articulateds meeting nose-to-nose?

I believe it too. It takes years of work and a machine shop, to turn those castings into working locomotive. The really scary part is, that price tag is more than most people's houses.

I'll stick to O gauge. My challenger was only $750.

Most scale models of articulateds are just like the real thing, with the rear engine attached to the boiler and firebox in somewhat rigid fashion.  That goes, at least, for some MTH Challengers.  The Live Steam folks go further, and make almost every piece identical to the real thing.  Some parts have to be oversize, like some injectors and maybe the whistle, but by and large, the live steam folks just shrink most things down.  Lots fewer boiler tubes, of course, and thicker steel on the shell, but otherwise the real deal.

I would say you can definetly depend on that.  If the UP is going to spend these kinds of dollars on a restoration they are darn sure going to use it for and expect a big return on their investment.  If what was true about the $$$ having been set aside already then they are definely in a good position $$ wise.  The thing I keep thinking about is they will then have an operational locomotive from each of what IMHO are their most popular classes of engines, an FEF, a Challenger and a 4000 class.   

Found this on the news page for the Southern California Chapter Railway & Locomotive Society posted for Dec 8th. 

December  8, 2012

No offer has been received from UP, but discussions are ongoing.

Updates will be posted here, and on Twitter @RailGiants

http://www.railgiants.org/unio...fic-big-boy-4014.htm

Not much but thought I would share. 

Well it's something. In the meantime, I just bought one on eBay. Lionel 4006.

They could use 844 and 4449.

Rusty

The Texans will win the Super Bowl before we get a steaming Big Boy!

How much money do you have to bet on THAT happening?

I have not spent a red cent on a ticket for any event at Reliant Stadium, including the Texans!

So, what's your point, then????

Everyone,

Let me clear the air on recent statements regarding the "leaking" of this news and how it was all handled.  As Jack stated above the Union Pacific did make a presention to a group of R&LHS members at a monthy meeting in regards to them wanting to restore the 4014 to operation.  The decision to address the membership was a made by the board and we stand behind this decision as the membership had to be made aware of this as it is a monumental decision to be made by the chapter.  We did ask that those in attendance try to reamin quite on the issue as no details had been discussed and the plan was still premature.  But as you all know the story did not stay quite very long, while it is unfortunate that is the way it is.  We were then contacted by Trains for a statment on the issue.  The Trains New Wire and our own website Railgiants.org are the only two sites that have offical statements by the R&LHS Southern California chapter on this matter.  In defense of the statement made by one of our board members, we told Trains what we knew at the time, that Union Pacific had come to us and made this proposal and that we were in negotiations with them on it. While some more specific details have come out, at this time nothing is official and we are still in talks with the railroad.  I can understand from reading posts here and on other rail sites that many are  unhappy with the way this information has been presented and on behalf of my organization I want to apologize for that.

John, I appreciate your post and explanation. It is a shame that you obviously have some members who don't understand how to handle PR at this level.

When you are dealing with a Fortune 500 company, people can't go shooting off their mouths to the various foamer boards on the internet just to show what a big shot they think they are and how much they know. PR at this level simply does not work that way.

The bottom line here is that Union Pacific approached you with a proposal, nothing more. Absolutely NOTHING should have been said publicly to ANYONE until that  PROPOSAL became a CONTRACT and it was a done deal. Your board of directors should have made the decision, and then announced the completed deal to your membership. That's what a board of directors is for, to direct the future of the organization and make the right decisions that will nurture that future. You cannot do this kind of PR work by committee, or by involving your members-at-large. That poses too many potential leak hazards, which is what happened here.

This has turned into a PR nightmare for the Union Pacific. I hope you guys have not shot yourselves in the foot with all this amateur-hour PR.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see what difference it makes if the club says they have been approached by the railroad to acquire their big boy, even if the news was leaked. The ball is in their court, and NOT UP's. They own it and UP wants it. If this "leak" jeopardized the deal, it just means UP didn't want it that badly. Beside, there are seven others.

Perhaps they chose this one, not because of its condition, but because of the organization that owns it. Frankly, if I was a member, I would vote yes, as long as the compensation was reasonable.

Elliot,

There are many reason negotiations are done in private, and many times deals are ruined by  blabbermouths like the person who wrote the original letter that was published here.

It could be that they haven't chosen the engine they are going to use and want to negotiate with each owner of each locomotive. Perhaps the entire board for the UP isn't on board yet. They want to not have stockholders freak out (Look how many negative comments were posted here, and we love trains) , and their could be SEC implications or any number of other reasons.

While I get why the R&LHS felt they needed to inform their membership of the offer it was probably too soon. If the meeting was prefaced with a "Do Not Discuss the information received here" then people like the author of the original email need to be censured or even removed from the organization.