Bluetooth Trains

Go with what you think you want for your layout, not what others recommend.  Personally, I still run only conventional, but that is me. Maybe "blue is the way to go, for you." Plans for kits or announcements of future releases are fine, but they don't exist right now, and in the past there were some companies who did a lot of this and then did not follow up completely.  Still, Bachmann has a good reputation for doing what it says it will do, although not always as soon.  

Check on compatibility across manufacturer's lines though, before committing too much to any one approach: you may discover you need different equipment/systems/software to use the same blue tech for different brands/types of trains.  And make sure you know what equipment you may need and its price.  So far, conventional is the only system that will run everything although it is possible to set up Legacy to do that with extra equipment.  I've know folks who picked a path and found it to be a bit more expensive than they expected.  

I think almost everyone in this hobby found it to be a bit more expensive than they expected.

I follow the new alternative control systems with interest, but so far they're not "real" enough for me to commit to them.

I am not, I have DCS and Legacy and like them both and will probably stick with them for some time yet. I don't see anything better on the horizon that does as much or more than these systems. Like gunrunnerjohn, I also follow the new control systems with great interest, but nothing else compares to DCS, Legacy or DCC right now as far as I know. I am interested in trying DCC someday with MTH PS3.

I think right now the only Bluetooth control in O gauge is do-it-yourself. I could be wrong, but I thought Bachmann was waiting to see how it all works out in HO before jumping into to O gauge with the new system?

First,yes, I'm excited for new wireless technology in trans.  There are several companies out there working with this, and a good number of independent folks puttzing about with it, and I do see it in the future.  

That said, the wiring is the same for TMCC/Legacy/LionChief/+ as it would be with any bluetooth or similar system, as far as track wiring goes.  You only need to worry about more complex things if you plan on using DCS.  If you think there is the slightest possibility you may some day want to run DCS you are best off wiring for it from the start.  in the grand scheme of all things O gauge it is not any more difficult, and only marginally more expensive...only barely worth mentioning.  

In either case, using separate power blocks for each loop, and and sidings is pretty desirable, whether or not you put on/off switches on them.  This way, if you have a derailment, or other short, it will not shut down the entire layout.  I do recommend switches on each siding, at least, as reports of engines that are parked deciding to start moving on their own are common enough to concern me.  

I designed and built my own wireless system for locos back in 2011. I currently have a half dozen running on my layout using my design. Performance is flawless and the operating range is incredible. Current drain is so low, I have two running on batteries with running life over two hours. I am planning to look into Bluetooth, but don't know if I will get sufficient range.

Here is one: http://www.trainboard.com/grap...Train-Control-Thread.  It includes a lot of new ideas such as precision distance control.

There is a BlueRail Train’s (as in Beckmann) video showing  an HO locomotive being run form an unobstructed range of 150 feet.  The open-source DBTC group is planning on using Bluetooth-accessory-controllers that will relay the control signals, this will provide enough range for even the largest layouts.

Its good to hear some optimistic opinions.  As I'm just entering the hobby - I'm in a position to skip over DCS, TMCC, and DCC ( which I believe MTH now offers in PS3)  which all require additional equipment to operate remotely - to achieve WiFi conmtrol, there's even more equipment - none of which sounds like a good long term solution - too many possible electronic malfunctions.  I like that blue tooth could eliminate all those extra variables - like lionchief without the remote.  

I'm in a similar position. I'm just dipping my toe into the waters of the hobby.  Mostly seeing if/how my son sticks with it. I've got two conventional engines currently.  I'm going to try to wait to buy any others until I see how the bluetooth technology develops.  I really think that for my future (possibly a modest layout) I don't see any point in investing in DCS, TMCC, etc.

If I breakdown and buy something, it will probably be LionChief,  Not only will it be entirely run-able without modification alongside any future blue-tooth system, but I won't be investing in several hundred dollars of possibly-soon-to-be-unnecessary control/power system. 

One question for those in-the-know.  How much modification would be necessary to run basic conventional engines in a future Bluetooth environment?

Since "future BT Environment" is an undefined quantity, that's a hard one.  I can tell you that it's very unlikely to support AC motored conventional stuff.

Admittedly, the AC / DC discussion is way out of my wheelhouse - 

Am I correct that most early 2000's "modern" conventional engines - as examples: MTH PS1... or Weaver or K-Line's TMCC up-gradable offerings are DC Locomotives that convert AC to DC ... and could be converted to bluetooth if it's limited to DC only?  

I ask - because I'm pretty pleased with the early 2000's K-Line / Weaver / PS-1 (Scale King) level of detail.  I picked up several Lionel scale and MTH Premier offerings earlier this year and while the details are nice - I'm nervous to touch them, let alone run them.  While I appreciate some details (like the added details on F7 trucks), some things are a bit too delicate for my taste (like the applied handrails on the same F7's or the doors on Lionel's new autoracks - yikes - I received two straight out of the box with broken doors).     

The motor is the easy part, and I expect most DC motored locomotives should be candidates.  The harder part will be getting all the other stuff like lights, smoke, electrocouplers to work.  Sound is another issue as many sounds are tied to the movement of the locomotive.  Also, the big guys have fairly extensive development for locomotive sounds, I have no idea what kind of sound library the BT guys will have available.

Thanks for all the info John. Very helpful. I'll have to keep my eye out for deals on DC equipped locomotives. 

Based on your info, In my case,  the main issue would be lights - as I'd like that to function as they currently do.

Locomotive Sounds shouldn't be too difficult to amass a library of - thanks to the availability of open access sound files - Crew Talk would be much more time consuming due to having to create sounds (and while I appreciate others fondness for it, I find it less desirable).  

My guess is the bigger issue is transmitting that sound data from the bluetooth controller to the locomotives - I believe the current model for Bachmann plays all the sounds from the controller - not the locomotives.  Ideally I'd like to be able to still have engine specific sounds (minus crew talk) be emitted from the locomotive - but not a deal breaker for me by any means. 

I think the locomotive sounds synched to the locomotive movement will be a bigger deal than you might imagine.  I think the quality of that will be a sticking point.

Synched to movement should be easy for if you're controlling the movement from your bluetooth device.  Of course this allows that the sound will be coming through your device or (more likely for dedicated modelers) a remotely located stereo.

Sounds coming from the Loco will be a more difficult for engines that are retrofitted with bluetooth kit and not designed up for the system.

Of course if you're willing to have the sounds coming from your bluetooth or stereo , the possibilities are wide open for sound packs to be created for virtually any engine and simply downloaded to your device and triggered at will or programed to be triggered at certain train motions or actions.  If the software becomes open source, folks could even make their own sound packs.  No one would be tied to the sound packs that the manufacturer supplies.

I'm reminded of what happened when LEGO Mindstorms robotic system went bluetooth and the software was made open-source.  Hobbyists had (and continue to have) a field day doing things with the system that far surpass what LEGO expected and it only helped the popularity and adoption of the system.

How about an inexpensive (>$13 delivered), simple, good sounding, locomotive sound option for DBTC (see HO size picture)? Just stick it on, add a removable-fake-trap and make it look like an over-sized load, and then put it directly behind the locomotive you want to have sound effects. That’s right; it is battery powered and will play sounds from any iClone. [Open-source iClone App developers, here is your chance to get in on the ground floor.]

Picture is nice, but I don't see a link to actually buy it.

John,

Sent you a private email on another forum.  Just don’t like to be promoting cheap foreign products.  The picture is intended to be an example of how the hobby can take advantage of mass produced technology.

Thanks, it's an interesting concept.

Very interesting.  A cheap and customizable wireless sound car!

I run conventional but I just added a Lion Chief plus which seems to split the difference between conventional and TMCC.  My grandson and I are are quite happy with it.

Al

Was recently contacted by Bluerail trains -  they confirmed that the first board they made was for a conventional Lionel. They are very happy with the HO roll-out and are starting to develop O gauge upgrade boards.

This is very good news!!!  I am anxious to test the HO sized board with an O27 handcar.  Thanks for the heads-up!

https://www.facebook.com/BlueRailTrains

Can your system run multi units?

Can you tell us non-facebook-people what was said on facebook?

Thank you!

"Hello from BlueRail Trains. We will be making an announcement soon on details of our first bluetooth board. If you are interested in a board (and have not already done so) please fill in our contact form. We will give first access to people in our database. Thank you."

http://bluerailtrains.com/contact.cfm

All I've got is a PS2 set of F7s - not sure I'm ready to operate on those just yet. Guess I'm going to have to locate some MTH or Weaver scale Santa Fe Diesels to operate on.  

It is my understanding that these first boards are intended for the HO hobbyist, so your initial choices would be for any motorized item pulling about the same maximum amperage as a typical HO locomotive.  I don't know what BlueRail Trains will say is the limit on these first HO boards, but I intend to do a Lionel handcar, perhaps even a Beep if it is within the HO amp limits.  I assume a handcar, trolley, speeder,  or superstreet vehicle would be a good choice for these first HO boards.

Perhaps so - I've been in contact with them and they told me they were working on the O boards - they initially designed the technology for O - so perhaps it's both.  

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember them saying that although they have the technology worked-out for O gauge, the mass production will be for the HO hobbyist first.  We need to hear from them -- perhaps someone from BlueRail Trains will chime in.  I am really looking forward to an affordable wireless remote control, that is simple!!

I 100% agree with you - looking forward to a scale option that is simple.  These DCS / Legacy options might work for some - but it's not for me.