Brackets for hanging permanent Train layout near ceiling level.

JerryG posted:

Gunrunner and Adriatic,

You're both correct.  It's way over 5%.

Nice to know my "tilt-meter" is still in decent calibration.   I don't mind up to around 3%, but after that it's pretty much "game over" for anything substantial.

Goshawk posted:

If I do another one, I really want to do a floating style shelf, like the pic above. Here is the one I made for my son's room. It's a little different from your circumstances.

 

 

I like how you did your son's room!  It looks both sturdy and professional.   What radius track did you use in the corners?

   Jerry, it's not like you're short on running space in that wonderful maze, so maybe those rails could be turned over to another light traction company? When I see that hill, I want to see something else too.

#9 ?

My trolley goes up my grades like they don't exist

Adriatic,

Holy cow!!  Makes my steep grade look like a walk in the park! 

I know what you mean, but I doubt I'll be changing that one soon.  For one thing, I'd have a tough time reaching it with that overhead line going by....then again, I'll see if my bump and go will make it up there.  Interesting.

Jerry

Jerry,

    No doubt about it the Yankees had the better team on paper, but World Series Base Ball Games are not played on paper or computers.  That particular 60 Pirate team had Harvey Haddix and Elroy Face as pitchers, even Whitey Ford knew the Yankees were in serious trouble when these two men walked on to the pitchers mound.

 Steve Blass who lived right up the street from us, was no piker either.  Both Dick Groat and Billy Maz are very conservative people until you put them on a Base Ball field, or in Dick's particular case, a Basket Ball Court, where he was both a High School All American and a College All American.  As he tells everyone, he was a Basket Ball Player who became a professional BaseBall player by accident.

 In reality he was the  3rd best Short Stop the Pirates ever had and man that is saying something.  Paired with the greatest 2nd basemen in Base Ball history, they broke every double play record that ever existed, then after Dick was sold to another team, Billy Maz and Gene Alley broke the double play record again, and it still stands even today, nobody even close.  

I learned to play 2nd base, and had a full ride in college because my buddy from the back ally of Swissvale, Pa ask Bill Maz to teach me his double play move.   All us kids living in Swissvale, Pa were broke back then, I owe these guys big time.  I was able to pay for my college education with the skills they taught me.   I have not seen Dick or Billy in a few years, Billy signed his book for me in the Monroeville Mall back when it came out, I thanked I'm again for teaching me my skills on the diamond.  There was only one other Pirate player that I got to know, he was my Grandfathers buddy, Pie Trainer.  He was an incredible man, and just maybe the best 3rd baseman whoever played base ball.    

PCRR/Dave 

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

No doubt about it the Yankees had the better team on paper, but World Series Base Ball Games are not played on paper or computers.  That particular 60 Pirate team had Harvey Hadicks and Elroy Face as pitchers, even Whitey Ford knew the Yankees were in serious trouble when these two men walked on to the pitchers mound.

The Phillies had four of the best pitchers in baseball in 2011, and posted the best overall record in baseball that year, however they never even made it to the World Series.  There's no one "silver bullet" in the game.

    I've always liked that hill of yours. I didn't think I my past descriptions got the visual across well. I save more images now, lol.

    San Fran. has some doozies. I've never been there, but always had a fascination for them since I was a kid. One of my childrens books had the Telegraph Hill area in it (Cat from Telegraph Hill?). Seeing real pictures soon after, the images stuck fast all these years. 

   I think a town called Madison along the Ohio River had some "real grades" on trolley lines as well. I can't recall the state offhand. 

Somewhere along the line I saw a picture that nearly mirrors that view. If I run across it again, you'll know

Adriatic posted:

San Fran. has some doozies. I've never been there, but always had a fascination for them since I was a kid. One of my childrens books had the Telegraph Hill area in it (Cat from Telegraph Hill?). Seeing real pictures soon after, the images stuck fast all these years. 

The only "RR" remotely close to Telegraph Hill would be the cable cars, and they're not that close.  The Powell/Mason Line is the closest.

Dave,

Pie Traynor?  Wow.  You know some serious Pirates.  HOF, terrific defender.  Career .320, but .341 in his best 7 seasons.  A hundred RBI seven times, all without hitting homeruns.   What?  You guys didn't hang with Hans Wagner or Stargell, haha?  

Haddix and Face were good players, but the Yanks hit Face pretty hard and he might have gotten the loss in game 7 if that DP ball didn't hit Kubek in the throat.  Vern Law was their most effective pitcher in that series, as expected.  Blass is a Connecticut guy and was great in 71 against the Orioles.

I always remember Groat in the 64 series with the Cardinals.  Mantle was still hitting a ton, but his legs were really bad.  Groat was quoted as saying something like, "There he was on second, the greatest player in the game, out there on one leg.  I hated to do it, but we had to run the play and pick him off."  I'd love to hear if he ever told you guys that kind of stuff.

Adriatic,

Thanks for your great idea and, guess what?  That trolley easily climbs that slope.  I will have to take out that 022 switch on the left, put in two bumpers, and get another trolley.  I'll also have to contrive a bumper with a big piece of foam on the down-slope and refurbish the track that hasn't been run on for 5 years.  This is gonna take a while....

Keep those ideas coming, guys.

Jerry

Jerry,

   Sorry for misspelling Pie's name I was very young and never looked at the way he spelled his name.  I probably should have looked it up, Pie did advertising on the radio for American Heating and Plumbing after his retirement from Baseball.  Who can Amera-Can, American Heating and Plumbing.  He was quite a guy, I will never forget him.  

The pick off of Mantel, Dick told the story very few times, he had great respect for Mantle and they were friends also.  When Dick won the batting title Mantel was right there to congratulate him.  These guys were real Pro players and money meant very little to them, except as a prestige symbol.   Maz was offered big time contracts to play for different teams, he turned them all down, and stayed in Pittsburgh, where he still lives even today.

The reason the Yanks hit Face is that he had hurt his pitching hand, in one of the play off  games just before the World Series, he pitched with an injured thumb and could hardly hold the ball correctly.  Law had some great games against the Yankees and fortunately they came in the World Series.  Face however came back as his hand healed, and the Yankees were in trouble.  

Got to tell ya when I saw Tony get hit in the throat, I thought he had been killed, worst infield bounce I ever saw.  However the play that really saved the game was made in Center Field by Bill Verdon, a world class catch on the run against the ivy on the wall of Forbes Field.  If Bill had missed that fly ball the game would have been over right there.

Well the permanent construction has started on the Shelving for the Ceiling Train Layout in the new Train Room/Bar, everything seems to proceeding smoothly.  I really appreciate all the engineering advise from the OGR members, especially the great pictures!   Luckily the door ways are all near 10' high leading in and out of the new Train Room, so working around them is not a problem.  

Hope everybody has a fantastic Christmas!

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

Nice going.  You're on your way.  Take lots of pics.  You'll enjoy looking back at the stages you accomplished on the way.  Don't forget to give us a look.

Virdon was always a 1 in Strat, along with Maz, the Great One, and Hoak. 1 is the highest range rating you can get.  Too bad the boy wasn't a 1 as a Yankee manager.  Believe me, every GM in baseball follows those ratings.  Love your stories.  You don't, by any chance, have any Clemente stories?

BTW, that bad hop forced Kubek out of the game by 1965.  Richardson, the greatest defensive secondbaseman they ever had,  followed the next year, but was unhurt.  Like Mazeroski, he was so fast at the doubleplay, they rarely saw that he hardly touched the base.

Also, the new two best Yankee outfielders hit 111 last year.  The record is, of course, 115 in 1961.  Glad to see Jeter has not forgotten his guys.  Watch out, though, in 5 years.  He's got a lot more money to play with now, and he doesn't like to lose.

Jerry

Jerry,

   I have only 2 Reberto stories, in 1950's & 1960's my Father ran the Boys Club in Swissvale, Pa.  He would take us all to the Pirate Games from time to time, as a reward for staying out of trouble.  My Grandfather who was a Lawyer and Pie with his Pirate connections, payed for the kids tickets.  A lot of these kids father's had been killed in WWII.   We all sat in the cheap seats along the right field short fence, in Forbes Field.  Clemente if he did not have to bat in that inning would jump the short fence in right field, and sit & play with us Boys Club Kids.  His big glove was passed around to all the kids who wanted to touch it, I got not only to touch it, I got to put his big glove on my hand.  A Pirate memory I will never ever forget   When Reberto had to go back into the field he would jump back out beside the fence, and the boys would throw his Glove back to him.  Often Bob Prince, the Pirate announcer would have to tell the kids to throw Clemente his glove, so they could restart the ball game.  Clemente loved kids, he died in a plane crash returning to help his home town kids, after a Hurricane some years later.  

The most famous picture of Clemente was taken by one of my friends Grandfather's, who was a Pro photographer, as Clemente stood on 2nd base tipping his hat, after breaking the individual hitting record.  Mike Weathorn now owns the original picture, left to him by his Grandfather.  As you can see above I have an original B&W Golden Glove awards picture myself.

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

Two great stories.  Thanks.

The photo at 2nd base was Clemente's 3000th and final hit of his career in 72.  Not a record, but a significant HOF milestone.  He got a few hits in the playoff, but they lost and those don't count on personal totals.

The two guys in that great pic should be Hoak and Maz, but they don't look like Hoak and Maz.  Clearly a gold glove presentation, and probably Clemente's silver slugger bat for leading the league in hitting as a rightfielder.

Also, got my switch outta there on that incline spur.  Changed the power leads to a separate control on a ZW, and doing a makeshift bumper with a big foam piece for the down-slope, because the trolley will hit that pretty hard.  Gotta order another trolley and new bumpers.

Jerry 

Jerry,

    How about some pictures of the Incline set up, very interested in how you set it up, doing it with the double street cars will be real cool!   Never tried to set the Incline up on my layout!

That is what the guys really looked like in 1960.  In that particular picture the Bat belonged to Billy Maz, the ball is the Home Run Ball from the World Series, his also.

There are other pictures taken at different times similar to this one, the guy in the middle in this picture is not who you think he is.  #22 is Joe Gibbon. A Gold Glove RP who could have played SS on most Pro Ball Teams in his era, a Gold Glove winner even as a Pitcher.  Any ball hit up the middle on the ground or a line drive with Joe Gibbon on the mound, was an automatic out.  Maz and Groat could cheat like mad and cover a huge amount of territory when Joe was pitching.  He was perhaps the best fielding RP Pitcher in the history of Pro Ball.  At his position he was as quick as Billy Maz and Pie T and man that is tops on any team that ever played Pro Ball.

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

My problem was the oil tank.  As the two-level layout expanded, the tank was exposed and inappropriate for the middle room of a three-room layout.  It also meant that the two main lines had to go to either side of the tank, one up, the other one, table height.  Very limiting.  So, first, the tank had to be covered.  I used a large grass mat and attached it to an improvised 1/4" board that I framed to fit over the top of the tank.  The mat can be seen in the first two pics.

On the incline side, I cut out 1/4" boards to fit the shape of the tank.  You can see them in pics 3 and 4 as they stick out to the table and divide the building scenes.  The track is supported by another 1/4 inch board that fits across the framed supports over the tank and runs to the shelf.  You can see the exposed boards in pic 3.  I added perpendicular support pieces for the track.  Once it was all screwed down, I used window screen to cover the distance between the flat board on top of the tank and the incline board.  That large wooden shelf that holds the spur track couldn't be moved.  That is the reason for the steep slope.  You can see it in pic 4.

I cut and painted the cardboard to fit the back scene for the buildings, covered the screen with joint compound, painted and added the scenery and buildings as they became available.  The hardest thing was wiring lights on top of the tank, but you can see how I pulled back one cardboard piece to show how the wires can be run underneath it all.

This pic shows the existing trolley line.  It was built to disguise the water pipe that runs through all three rooms.  My wife came up with the basic idea.  Just 1/2 inch boards, with 027 track, and secured with pipe clamps.  To the left of that light tower, you can see where I took out that switch.  Found a nice, shiny new, piece of Lionel tubular track to replace it with.  Most of my tubular is at least 50 years old and from our old layouts.  I used Gargraves on all the new lines.

I cut and pasted this older pic to remind you of what the whole thing looks like.  You can see three of the four supports that stick out to hold the incline.  I thought of paper World Trade Center buildings to cover those oil pipes, but after a few attempts in the school graphics shop, abandoned the idea.

Also, I figured that middle guy had to be a pitcher.  Couldn't be Hoak or Virdon.  Thanks for explaining the photo.  Won't give you a hard time about it, but, no errors for Gibbon in 62, lots of them in the other years.  Never rated tops in fielding range either, despite that gold glove.  Besides, everyone knows the greatest fielding pitcher was Mariano Rivera.  Jim Kaat won more gold gloves than all of them put together, of course.  No one was ever as quick to the ball as Ron Guidry.  Bobby Shantz was always talked about.  Pretty sure he spent more time in the AL, though.

I'm not sure I answered your questions about the incline, Dave.  Let me know....

Jerry

Jerry,

   Great job on the Incline and the explanation was fantastic.  In reality how steep of a grade did you engineer for the trollies?  I might want to try something similar some time.  Great pictures also.

The thing about Joe Gibbon was that he was not like many of the other great fielding pitchers who simply responded when he ball was hit in their direction.  Joe's errors were because he covered areas that in reality were out of a pitchers responsibility and was able to free both Maz and Groat up to cover incredible ground at their respective positions.  Simply put he took chances to help win ball games, that most other great fielding pitchers never dreamed of taking, and Joe did not care about the errors that came from it.  In reality it won him his golden glove in 1960.  Watching him on the mound was like watching Maz play 2nd base, more than just exciting, especially if you were a serious infielder yourself.  I remember Groat's comment that many times he would move into position to field a ground ball and Gibbons would have already snagged it.  High praise of a pitcher from a short stop who broke the double play record himself.

PCRR/Dave

Pictures of the work in progress.  The construction of the the shelving around the full Train Room/Bar is almost complete.

Corner Curves will be 072 FasTrack with right triangle corner extensions of 18".

R. Hales posted:

Goshawk posted:

If I do another one, I really want to do a floating style shelf, like the pic above. Here is the one I made for my son's room. It's a little different from your circumstances.

 

 

I like how you did your son's room!  It looks both sturdy and professional.   What radius track did you use in the corners?

Thanks! We were real excited with how well it turned out. The Radius in the corners is O48. 

GOSHAWK,

    I needed the 072 curves in the corners to accommodate both my Original Williams City of San Fran Passenger Train and my TMCC JLC GG-1, which pulls the big Military Transport rolling stock.  Your 048 curves in the corner look great, and your shelf work is fantastic!  Your boys room looks seriously cool!

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

GOSHAWK,

    I needed the 072 curves in the corners to accommodate both my Original Williams City of San Fran Passenger Train and my TMCC JLC GG-1, which pulls the big Military Transport rolling stock.  Your 048's curves in the corner look great however, and your shelf work is fantastic!  Your boys room looks seriously cool!

PCRR/Dave

Thanks, he really enjoys it! In hindsight, I probably should have used O72 curves. We don't currently own anything that requires it, but we may someday. Your progress looks awesome. 

Just saw this site ... looks pretty cool.

http://www.ceilingtrainkit.com/

Dave,

Thanks for the kind words.

The slope of the long, light blue trolley line is 4 inches over 88 inches.  The rise divided by the run gives a slope of .045.  The line coming off the pipe to the opposite site is basically level.  It's a nice long trolley run.  It's faster downhill of course, but it manages the route very well.

The spur I'm converting to a second trolley line, is 7 inches over 57 inches to the shelf.  That gives a slope of .122.  You guys easily pointed out the steepness of it.  The shelf is level.  I ordered new bumpers and another MTH NYC Transit trolley today.

My only concern about the new trolley line is the speed at which the trolley will descend to the lower bumper, which will have a good-sized piece of foam added to it.  The shelf end of that line is very hard to reach from either side.  That's a conventional SF SD40 that I tested the line with yesterday.  No consist, so it managed the slope easily.  I had good contact with that old tubular track that hasn't had an engine on it for 5 years.  That surprised me a little.

I have to thank Adriatic again.  He came up with the idea.  Yep, #9.

Guys have asked for video's in the past.  I've never uploaded one to the forum or to youtube.  Any advise will be welcome.

Jerry

Dave,

Just saw your pics.  That was real fast!!!  Took me 4 months to complete the small yard and my lines all the way around.  How much track length do you figure you'll have?

Progress looks great.  Keep them coming....

Jerry

Sweet! 

Downloading direct, you're limited data wise. Lower the resolution and you'll get about 30-50 seconds in. After hitting post, wait patiently a few.minutes, there may be more processing happening.

If on YT, you have to link by simply posting the url in the text here.

  To embed, go to YT "share" and copy that adress (center?), come back and use the embedding tool above. (in share, I forget which of three code lines it is off hand. It has been over a year since my device would work for embedding. First time, you could load all three, then note which is correct for you for the future)

For your down grades, you can likely slow it (them) with a relay and diode array. I use similar, but as an anti collision system for a shared main. E.g.- Top bumper sets the relay to "low", bottom bumper gives full power. 2 switches( isolated rails, pressure sw. etc) , 1 5-24v ac relay, and maybe 1-4 diodes 6a-8a (match largest draw +some). I think you might be able to use the cast lighted bumpers as a switch, but it might take 1 relay each or different relay, I haven't thought on it or looked at the bumpers, but I think they can be set to break points when contacted, i.e., a switch to activate a relay.

Progress looks great, Dave. This is the fun part. Don't forget to order some ply-lam trusses to hold up all those transformers. Even when you're 95 years old and having trouble getting around I see you have the getting up and down stairs part covered! Looking forward to more pictures as you go along.

Deuce posted:

Just saw this site ... looks pretty cool.

http://www.ceilingtrainkit.com/

Except for the pricing!

12'x12' $1100 to 12'x15' $1150 to 12'x18' $1200 to 12'x21' $1250 to 12'x24' $1300 to 12'x27' $1350 to 12'x30 $1400 to 12'x33' $1450 to 12'x36' $1500 to 12'x39' $1550 to 12'x42' $1600 to 12'x45' $1650

I've had several requests for videos of the table layout.  Thanks to Adriatic, again, whose advice helped me get this one up here.  It's my first, so gimme a break.  Seems a little long, and I did this in the spring.  Things have progressed since, and continue in that never-ending regard, haha.  There is a third room, which can only be glimpsed.  You may be able to tell that I like lots of trains, at lots of levels, and all at the same time.

I will try to do better.  This is the only train video I've ever made, and I wanted to test if it would work.  Hope you like it.  Hope it works...

Jerry

Jerry,

   Great video and fantastic layout!  

As far as the quick building time goes, it helps to Engineer the layouts, then make sure you have all the necessary building materials prior to starting construction.  I had to run and get very little building materials as I built, because I purchased what I needed weeks/months before ever starting to build.  Moving from the old house to the new one thru a monkey wrench into the over all time schedule however.  Still working on the old place in Churchill to get her ready for sale.  Having to deal with the new layout construction and upgrading the old home I was up till 3 AM a few nights in a row to make sure I would have the shelving for the ceiling layout completed for Christmas.  I laid the initial FasTrack design on the shelving last night and part of today.  So tired right now that I finally took time to sit and update the thread I started.  

PCRR/Dave

Initial Track layout design Completed 11:20 PM.

This little corner S curve over the door way, was not for the young.  However everything worked out just as I Engineered it.  Track Testing and line drops come next, then the 18" Triangle Corner pieces get added where the 072's bridge the shelving, then the FasTrack gets screwed down into permanent position.  

Had to purchase a new Skill Mimi-Drill-Driver for screwing the track down to the shelving, my standard size drills were not getting the job done in the allotted spacing between the shelfs and the ceiling. 

Man I am now so glad, I did not sell any of my 1st Generation FasTrack, every piece fit up absolutely perfectly.

Dave:

It looks like it's working out well. Can't wait to see a video of the train running. By the way, I was planning on drops every few feet, but when I ran it, it ran fine. So I never did add the drops. Mine is 12'x14' however.

George

George & Jerry,

    Going to start with 4 main drops, one on each end of the room and one on each side of the room.  I will however attach drop lines to the FasTrack in several other different locations because the room is 20' X 14'. I hope not to have to use some of them however.    Looks like the Star Wiring Pattern I used on many of the other layouts will be out of the question on this ceiling shelf layout, we will see how the DCS and Legacy work on a layout with this amount of track pieces.

Long way from doing any train running at this particular point.  I will stabilize the track position with a few screws after I drop the leads, cut the triangle corner pieces for where the track bridges the corners and install them.  I really should paint the triangle pieces white to match the rest of the shelving before I permanently install them.

Still a long way to go!  Have not even thought about where the power station for the transformers will end up.   Might have to use the far end of the Bar in some way.  

George where did you set up your powers station, DCS and Legacy Controls for your over  head layout?  Please anybody members with some idea's on this, suggestions are definitely welcome

PCRR/Dave

The Bar is a nice height for the power station, but I want a small Conventional Tubular layout on it like in the movie Donavan's Reef, with Wayne and Marvin.  Planning this out is going to be a nightmare. However the great thing is the Bar is about 10' long.

Dave,

If you have approximately 68 feet of track, you probably only need a power drop on each side, but more couldn't hurt.  I have two 100 foot loops, with four drops for each, from bus wiring.  I've never had close to a poor signal from any part of those loops.  IMO, as long as your track is tight together, you shouldn't have a problem with power, DCS, or Legacy.  Mine is all screwed down, but only 3 at the most, for every 37 inch piece of Gargraves. 

Also, I have two 75 foot loops on my new upper level lines on the table layout.  I'm running three LCP's on two lines, with only one drop from the end of my third room.  I was shocked to find I didn't have to run another drop, through the ceiling to the other end, like I had planned.

I recommend you paint the pieces before you put them up.  I spent a whole lot of time staining, sanding, and sealing each of mine before I put any track and roadbed on them.  I wanted them to look like furniture and that they'd always been there.  I am extremely pleased with the result.  The undersides are as shiny and smooth as a baby's butt.  Only then did I mount them, one at a time.  Also, you might consider a backdrop to hide the brackets.  It will certainly delay the finish, but for me, it had to be done.

My power station is only one ZW and one TIU.  I just counted, and I have five wires running down the wall, all from a single notch in the wall side of a long board.  I run them between a framed speaker mount and a Yankee poster.  They are visible, but no one has ever commented on them.  Always figured on a piece of wiremold, but have never come across the correct width.  Someday.  Two wires are for the mains, one for the small yard and switches, two for accessory lighting.  Mostly, I used 16 gauge speaker wire, 18 on lighting.  I like the clear type, with the white stripe on one.  

I had planned to place the power in the bar area.  I ended up with the living room/TV area, and I'm glad I did.  I have a large old wooden cabinet there, which used to hold VCR's.  Now it holds my ZW and clock on a shelf.   The TIU is on the flat top of the cabinet, which gives me easy access for any changes.  I highly recommend using an auxillary power supply for your TIU, and adding fast-acting fuses or breakers to your hot (red) lines.

To run the layout, I just flip on a power strip, and push the two ZW handles into position.  You're gonna run your command trains with your remote anyway.  Even though my power isn't at the bar, I can run the engines from the bar.

Keep up the pics.  It's fun to see your progress.  My bar area was never stacked so high with stuff, but, it was a whole lot messier with sawdust, paint, tools, power equipment, and hardware.  One other thing, I bought two large plastic tarps to protect the floor from all that was falling on it during the build.

Jerry

You appear to be having way to much fun Dave.

Merry Christmas.

Larry

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Deuce posted:

Just saw this site ... looks pretty cool.

http://www.ceilingtrainkit.com/

Except for the pricing!

12'x12' $1100 to 12'x15' $1150 to 12'x18' $1200 to 12'x21' $1250 to 12'x24' $1300 to 12'x27' $1350 to 12'x30 $1400 to 12'x33' $1450 to 12'x36' $1500 to 12'x39' $1550 to 12'x42' $1600 to 12'x45' $1650

 Definitely too rich for my blood,  but it does look nice.

Jerry,

    Thanks for the input, I know what you mean about the Breakers and already have them from my prior layouts, even use them with my Z4K's and definitely with the old ZW' and KW's.  I was figuring on some neat looking gray plastic pipe to run my wiring in, however if nobody ever really noticed your wiring set up, maybe I should give your method a try 1st.  The TIU will definitely be in an accessible location, you are seriously right about the need for doing it.  

Well in my haste to complete the over head shelving I inserted the Triangles for the 072 FasTrack Bridging in most of the corners, before I painted them.   Told the wife it is now her job to neatly paint all of them white, to match the over head shelving.  Got to admit they came out real nice, I custom bent metal brackets for the end of each triangle, used the main wall Shelving Brackets for mounting the 90 degree corners, and they are stronger than I thought, and look nice also.  All in all I am satisfied with the Engineering of the shelf/ceiling layout, I have one more corner to construct and the project is completed.  Put in another 2 AM night to get to this point, it has been worth the effort and the little bit of lost sleep.  

Larry Sr,

   "Having more fun than a human being should be allowed to have"  -  Rush Limbaugh

Merry Christmas buddy!

DEUCE,

   I took a look at the Bachmann over head Trestle Engineering and it does look real nice, however I wanted something a lot stronger than what they were offering, and I definitely agree with you the cost was way past my reality point.   If a man had the time, it would be real nice to build the entire Trestle Engineering package with a stronger base.  It would end up as a life time construction project however.

PCRR/Dave

Even without being painted White to match the rest of the Over Head Shelving, the Triangle Bridge Work for the Corners, does not look to bad.  Definitely needs to be painted however, to blend in with the rest of the construction work.

It looks fantastic, Dave!  I used brackets on the three walls.  The fourth wall is brick, so I hung the shelf from the joists with anchors, and all thread.  That worked out okay too , except I got the one a little cockeyed.  I still need to put in the triangle bridges on mine.  So many things to do, so little time.  

Mark,

  That is a great looking ceiling type layout, I love it.  Accommodating a Brick wall for this type of layout is never easy Engineering. What size curves did you Engineer for your corners?  They look pretty tight.  I really like the old Blue and Gold Virginian Train, very cool stuff.

I understand about the time for building the corner bridge work, completed the last of mine today.  Way to much time spent on them, but they did come out real nice and strong as a bull.

PCRR/Dave

The final Corner Triangle for Bridging the 072 FasTrack, this one was a fair size Triangle, with 20" legs, due to the engineering required for final build.

Dave,

Thank you.  I have two tracks on 12" shelves.  The back one is GarGraves 054, and the front one is tubular 042.  I have just enough room for two trains to pass since my standard is 40-foot cars.

Mark,

   I opted to Engineer for just running one Train on the shelf ceiling layout.  I will have lots of space in front of the Fire Place and Bar for the multi level layout.  Plus I have the formal living room layout under construction also.  Just put the Christmas Tree up last night on the platform, with the RealTrax I decided to use under the Christmas Tree.  Will get around to testing the Track and placing the village this week some time.  Ofcourse the new Hallmark Toy Maker Santa Express will be running under the Christmas Tree, near the fire, for all the visitors to enjoy.  Yep it is starting to look a lot like Christmas in our new home.  

John H and Larry Sr,

    Wanted you guys to know it was not all fun, had a buckle on one of my work shoes catch on the side of the ladder while working on the ceiling layout, pitches me back wards off the 8' Aluminum Ladder on to the hard wood floor.  I am a little sore this morning but the over head shelving and FasTrack construction is completed.  Tested the FasTrack with a Tin Plate Islay's Box Car to make sure of the spacing and glass like running effect I wanted to achieve, everything tested out perfectly.

Merry Christmas everybody and happy Christmas layout building!

PCRR/Dave

The formal living room with some of the Christmas goodies.

Dave,

Thank you.  My original plan was for one track.  Then when I realized I could fit two and had no other layout, since both daughters were still at home, at least when the younger wasn't away at college, I went for it.  Right now, since I have the 4 x 8 in the younger daughter's old room, the shelf layout is holding an excess of cars and locos, so I could get the 4 x 8 ready for Polar Express, North Pole Central, and Hallmark Toymaker.  No, I can only run two of them at a time on the 4 x 8.

I am so glad you didn't get hurt worse than some sore bumps and bruises.  Yes, the Ceiling Central RR isn't for the faint of heart.  My ceiling is only 87 inches off the floor.  At 5' 11" I can easily touch the ceiling standing on the floor, but I have to get on a step ladder to see or do anything.  To get the shelf above the 80" high doors, I don't have much headroom to see what I'm doing.  I have had rheumatoid arthritis, but this fall discovered I have osteoarthritis in at east one knee also.  Climbing the ladder to put my wife's Christmas lights on the front gutters of our short house was painful.  Even climbing the short step ladder to put excess rolling stock on the Ceiling Central has been painful, and I am more wobbly than I used to be.  I have to really watch or I will go down like you did.  All food for thought as I plan to start building my new layout empire in the older daughter's former art room which is 11' 6' x 11' 4".  

Have a blessed Christmas celebrating the birth of our Lord and Saviour, Dave and all!!

I use am using half inch metal pipe for brackets, put a flange on the wall, a 4" nipple, a 90 degree elbow, 2" nipple, to another flange.  Like this: Iron Pipe Bracket.  I was just told to make it look nice and after some thought if I could design the room to have the industrial look, it would look nice.  Plus the iron pipes remind me of the interior of a steam engine.

Powarun posted:

I use am using half inch metal pipe for brackets, put a flange on the wall, a 4" nipple, a 90 degree elbow, 2" nipple, to another flange.  Like this: Iron Pipe Bracket.  I was just told to make it look nice and after some thought if I could design the room to have the industrial look, it would look nice.  Plus the iron pipes remind me of the interior of a steam engine.

My dad did similar things with iron pipe at his home during his retirement, since he had lots of pipe and fittings on hand.  My grandfather was a plumber, who passed on months before I was born.  Dad has some very innovative uses for that pipe not for style, but for utility at low cost.  I can envision yours looking great!!!