I'd take a Southern shadow line car.
Seaboard also had some shadowline Pullmans, plus an observation car in this scheme.
This goes way back, but I did some artwork for Scott doing shadow line painting for some other projects. Might be worth resurrecting. No pun intended on this holy day for many.
Just a few suggestions:
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@Purplepapa posted:Just a few suggestions:
Beautiful! Would you email these to Scott Mann?
I am probably going to order the Baltimore and Ohio sleepers and coaches. Does anyone have information on how close these are to the real B&O cars? Also, are the modernized coaches close to anything the B and O had?
@GG1 4877 posted:This goes way back, but I did some artwork for Scott doing shadow line painting for some other projects. Might be worth resurrecting. No pun intended on this holy day for many.
Let me know how many orders you need to make this reservation a go and I’ll talk to my O Scale friends not here on the forum.
@sdmann posted:Hi Folks,
Diners, Head End (Baggage / RPO / Combine), Observation Cars were made in 2019 and the tooling exists, and can all be made in a subsequent run after these. That way we can announce all the successful roads of this run in future runs. All our tooling is moving into our current car manufacturer.
In the previous run of 2019, we improved our 3R coupler assembly, and these cars will enjoy that upgrade as well. I am thinking to supply the Kadee mounts and screws in each 3R box as well.
Clerestory and Arched Roofs: These car bodies are assembled, not a one piece plastic part, the roofs are screwed on to the car from below, so I could make extras and customers could buy roofs separately and change out their Clerestory for Arched and visa versa at will.
These cars are all based on accurate PRR cars, then we offer them in a generic form for all other roads. Sometimes we will be close, sometimes not, it all depends on what you want for your layout or collection. I think it's going to be a fun project for us and our customers.
Cheers,
Scott Mann
I’ll take 5 arched roofs, Scott. Would you be offering floors and trucks as well?
@BlueFeather posted:Besides PRR, what other roads had arch roof heavyweight coaches with picture windows? I can find prototype images of arch roof heavyweights but not a lot of cars with both an arch roof *and* picture windows.
For certain: Frisco, Union Pacific
I think . . . : Erie, Southern, NC&StL/L&N
One more Pullman paint scheme suggestion. 
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@Purplepapa posted:Just a few suggestions:
I would absolutely buy this one in an undecorated Pullman version.
I think the Cuyahoga Valley Line ran one of these (along with a couple of 12-1 Heavyweights) when they were running 4070 and the ex-Pennsylvania P70's.
Can anyone verify? I'd drop some photographs to illustrate what I'm after, but it's against forum rules and regulations.
Just gonna throw this out there, anybody want a more luxurious heavyweight sleeper? I’m thinking the 6-3 (6 compartments 3 drawing rooms) or the 7 drawing room sleepers found only on a few of the most luxurious passenger trains.
12-1’s were a sectional sleeper & 8-1-2’s were a sectional/ bedroom car. Thinking an all bedroom car would be a sweet addition to the fleet.
see them here http://www.northeast.railfan.n...lassic/CARdwgs4.html
That Rebuilt 6-6 type in Pullman green is the one I'm after! Thanks DJ.
If observation cars are ever offered, would love to see one in this scheme (my picture).
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@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:Just gonna throw this out there, anybody want a more luxurious heavyweight sleeper? I’m thinking the 6-3 (6 compartments 3 drawing rooms) or the 7 drawing room sleepers found only on a few of the most luxurious passenger trains.
12-1’s were a sectional sleeper & 8-1-2’s were a sectional/ bedroom car. Thinking an all bedroom car would be a sweet addition to the fleet.
see them here http://www.northeast.railfan.n...lassic/CARdwgs4.html
I hope everyone gets what they want. What I want to see though are the basic cars that you would see on workaday trains rather than the top of the line equipment that tended to be reserved for the flagship trains.
Can someone please tell me more about the “Postwar” Heavyweight Passenger cars?
Kyle - A Fellow “Rail-Nerd”
@The-576-Guy posted:Can someone please tell me more about the “Postwar” Heavyweight Passenger cars?
Kyle - A Fellow “Rail-Nerd”
This thread discussion is all about Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger equipment, i.e. generally 21" long cars. The "postwar" cars you are asking about would all be Lionel non-scale pieces, generally referred to as "Madison Cars".
@Hot Water posted:This thread discussion is all about Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger equipment, i.e. generally 21" long cars. The "postwar" cars you are asking about would all be Lionel non-scale pieces, generally referred to as "Madison Cars".
Did you look at the golden gate websight? There is a “postwar” coach offering in many road names.
@The-576-Guy posted:Can someone please tell me more about the “Postwar” Heavyweight Passenger cars?
Kyle - A Fellow “Rail-Nerd”
They are modernized heavyweight cars. Round roof & modified windows. I believe they will have 4 wheel or 6 wheel trucks per the prototype
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:Did you look at the golden gate websight? There is a “postwar” coach offering in many road names.
Sorry but, there is NOTHING "postwar" about Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger cars! I must have had a dozen or more of their SCALE passenger cars, over the years.
@Hot Water posted:Sorry but, there is NOTHING "postwar" about Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger cars! I must have had a dozen or more of their SCALE passenger cars, over the years.
I have a lot of their scale plastic & aluminum cars too and this is not the first time Golden gate depot has used the term postwar. Meaning a scale replica of a train car made or modernized post WWII. You remember the pre and postwar Broadway limited offering?
If you’re referring to Lionel’s postwar products, yes it’s a completely different product. And I’m only referring to what’s on the golden gate depot websight so maybe relax & enjoy the thread…..
@Hot Water posted:Sorry but, there is NOTHING "postwar" about Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger cars! I must have had a dozen or more of their SCALE passenger cars, over the years.
Yes postwar is referring to a scale model of Pullman built heavyweight cars as they appeared in the postwar years after they had been converted to sealed windows with air conditioning.
The top car is what GGD is referring to as a prewar car with the clerestory roof and small windows, while the car on bottom is a modernized "postwar" car with the rounded roof to accommodate air conditioning ducts and to better match streamlined equipment as well as large picture windows. Both cars were built in the 19teens but the green car would've been modernized in the 30s or 40s.
NOTE: pictures removed due to possible copyright infringement per the OGR TOS.
MOPAC and NdeM Sleepers
There were some posts about the NdeM and Scott added them and then he added the NdeM Alco engines. I love it.
One thing I have found is that there is a wealth of NdeM sleepers and Mopac Sleepers used in the St. Louis to Mexico City run. I'm hoping to add whatever limit Scott puts on sleepers. There are some great Spanish road names for the City of Mexico, Aztec Eagle trains.
@Greg from Texas posted:MOPAC and NdeM Sleepers
There were some posts about the NdeM and Scott added them and then he added the NdeM Alco engines. I love it.
One thing I have found is that there is a wealth of NdeM sleepers and Mopac Sleepers used in the St. Louis to Mexico City run. I'm hoping to add whatever limit Scott puts on sleepers. There are some great Spanish road names for the City of Mexico, Aztec Eagle trains.
Were you aware Scott has done NdeM F3s (2runs) and a NdeM 10-6 as an “extra”in the GGD Texas Eagle offering ??? The MP Budd with 6 wheel trucks ran on the Aztec - was also available as an “extra”. This 10-6 will reprise in Jenks when those cars are done. (Scott has stated they will be offered) A NdeM 10-5 is likely too.
Check out the “GGD Missouri Pacific Eagles …. “ thread and you’ll find NdeM bits here and there in the thread.
Be aware the only heavyweight cars GGD are doing are those with existing tooling. If you have NdeM pix to contribute, please post links to them. If you have some good published references, those are also appreciated.
Cheers 😉
https://ogrforum.com/...6#184297498767049366
Hey Greg, Yes, I have the extras from the Texas Eagle offering.
I emailed Scott and told him I would share all the MOPAC and NdeM pictures and stats I have when he is ready. I know there will be MOPAC, but, I know he can only do so many sleepers and there were dozens of sleepers used on the runs from St. Louis and then NdeMs were added from the NdeM. Right now I have 32 heavyweights reserved between the T&P, MOPAC, NdeM, and S.P. But I will order more MOPAC & NdeM Sleepers if more than 4 of each are offered.
I missed out on the F3s. I moved up to GGD and 3rd rail in 2020.
Also trying to increase interest and reservations on the forum.
Greg, Dallas TX
What railroads used the modernized heavyweight coaches and how common were they on trains?
Kyle - A Fellow Rail-Nerd
Most passenger roads utilized some form of modernized heavyweights nearly to the end of private passenger operations. The configurations are pretty diverse as most of these rebuilds were done by the railroad's own forces. The GGD car is based on the modernized PRR P70 coach and specifically is the P70faR as shown in this diagram. The most visible changes are the removed center post from window pairs and the balloon roof which concealed ac ducts. These rebuilds were done in the late 1930's and into the 1940's. The P70faR mostly saw service from New York to Washington and on long distance trains south of DC.
Other roads that had similar cars have been discussed on this forum and I believe earlier in this thread. However, you can find photos online of the many variations.
Do you have a specific road name you are modeling?
Jonathan, your response has me intrigued. Which trains operating south of the District would have used Pennsy coaches?
@Bill N posted:Jonathan, your response has me intrigued. Which trains operating south of the District would have used Pennsy coaches?
Bill,
I may have gotten ahead of myself. I was using this site as a reference but did not do the follow-up research to see exactly what routes were being referred to.
https://jbritton.pennsyrr.com/...e-pennsy-coach-fleet
I was thinking that this referred to coaches that may have operated on through service on trains like the "East Coast Champion", "The Florida Special", "The Silver Meteor", and similar trains that originated in NYC and had destinations south of DC prior to the introduction of all streamlined cars to those trains. However, I do not have data to back up that thought. As always, time for more research!
Based on the information in the link above, the P70faR fleet primarily operated between NYC and DC while even more modernized versions of the P70 such as the P70g or P70k cars ran on the east-west routes.
A little off topic, but the link above does provide a fascinating collection of just how many upgrades were done to the P70s through the years. The PRR as always, made good use of outdated equipment.
I'm still holding out for a P70fbR with a balloon roof as those operated on the NY&LB from 1960 into the early 1980's.
Adding to the discussion of modernized heavyweights, a lot of online photos show variations heavyweight cars where the most common upgrade was non-operable gasketed windows, either in single units or combined paired windows. The roofs have either retained their monitor roofs or had variations of the balloon roof added. In some cases, the only give away that the coach has been modernized is the 6 axle trucks being retained. Like everything, it pays to research your prototype. While the GGD cars are not perfect for all these applications, they make a good stand in for many roads.
I wasn't challenging Jonathan. Just asking. I know Pennsy had some joint routes with southern roads and some of those routes that ran through D.C. had coaches. However as those roads began transitioning to streamlined equipment for their top tier trains around the end of the 1930s I would think that even updated P70s would look out of place.
Jonathan, I am currently thinking about modeling the New York Central, and Pennsylvania Railroad. However, I might get other roads such as the C&O and B&O if I can find appropriate motive power for them.
Kyle - a fellow "Rail-Nerd"
@Bill N posted:I wasn't challenging Jonathan. Just asking. I know Pennsy had some joint routes with southern roads and some of those routes that ran through D.C. had coaches. However as those roads began transitioning to streamlined equipment for their top tier trains around the end of the 1930s I would think that even updated P70s would look out of place.
I didn't take your comment that way at all Bill. It was a great question and I always enjoy an opportunity to learn something. I am doing some more research as I would agree with you that PRR through coaches seem like a bit of an anomaly on the southern trains of the ACL, SAL, and Southern.
@The-576-Guy posted:Jonathan, I am currently thinking about modeling the New York Central, and Pennsylvania Railroad. However, I might get other roads such as the C&O and B&O if I can find appropriate motive power for them.
Kyle - a fellow "Rail-Nerd"
On the diesel side, those roads are fairly well covered as all utilized E units in passenger service. The C&O, PRR and NYC purchased E7s and E8s while the B&O operated EAs, E6s, E7s, E8s, & E9s as well as some steam boiler equipped F3s.
As for steam locomotives it gets a little harder to find B&O and C&O prototypes, but they are out there. The NYC and the PRR are well covered.
I’d do a quick draw with my wallet if Soo Line heavyweights are ever rerun.
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:I have a question regarding the NdeM sleepers & F3’s that were produced. Why don’t the greens match? Is that prototypical? Seems like the greens should match..? @TrainBub
I think that we can conclude that it is prototypical that they do not match. From looking at the few color photos that are available in books and websites, the 3rd Rail F3 (actually an F2) paint scheme, which is the original NdeM diesel scheme from the mid/late 1940’s, is a dark green with orange stripes, while the GGD passenger car scheme used on the NdeM 10-6 separate sale sleepers from the Eagle run, which is from the late 1950’s, is a nearly black green with red stripes and yellow lettering. The NdeM diesel paint scheme changed from the green scheme to the black/red/yellow scheme in the late 1950’s/early 1960’s. So, although there was a little bit of overlap in the later 1950’s, the nearly black green/red stripes/yellow lettering passenger scheme was mainly used with the black/red/yellow diesel scheme, and thus not really designed to match the original green diesel scheme, from what I can discern.
The NdeM heavyweight coaches/sleepers should match the NdeM 10-6 separate sale sleepers from the Eagle run.
I'd be highly interested in a heavyweight open-platform observation - hope these get added to the run
Yes, I'll second that!
@Prr7688 posted:I'd be highly interested in a heavyweight open-platform observation - hope these get added to the run
The current offering of coaches and sleepers are being offered First as they have not been done for Quite Some Time. And it is a Very Expansive, ambitious offering !!!!! Lots of options for everyone.
If Demand is Sufficient, I’m inclined to believe that Scott will follow with an offering of observation, diner, baggage, combine. IMHO of course.
Cheers 😉
